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alberchico
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New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:09 pm

http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=154&Page=1

Does anybody think this plane will be a success?? :-|
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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N328KF
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:14 pm

Maybe they just moved the 757 assembly line from Renton.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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alberchico
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:17 pm

Funny, but do you think the Russians have a chance to penetrate the U.S. market with the tu-204 and the il-96?
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
WMUPilot
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:31 pm

One simple word will answer that:

No
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alberchico
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:01 pm

Can you please elaborate?
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
airbazar
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:55 pm

Wmupilot, that's what people said about Airbus 30 years ago. I don't expect Russian aircraft to penetrate the US market during the current generation of airline managers. There are still a lot of stereotypes about Russia. But wait for the next generation and I guaranty you they will be competing on equal terms with Boeing and Airbus.
 
Skydrol
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:05 pm

Alberchico wrote:
>>>
Does anybody think this plane will be a success?? :-|
<<<

I hope it is. Always thought the 204 is a good looking aircraft, and these photos show that, both inside and out. They certainly are one-up on Airbus for pax cabin window size!

More here on the TU-204/214



LD4
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Alessandro
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:06 pm

Russian and other east european planemakers can only sell cargo and firefighting planes to the USofA or small planes like the Be-103.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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American 767
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:12 pm

So far the only airline from the Western world operating a Russian built airliner is TNT:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lars Wahlstrom


So yes, there could be a market for the TU-204/214 aircraft in the rest of the world, although not in the near future. These aircraft are not just certified under Russian standards, they are certified in compliance with FAA and JAR standards. I think all safety and navigation equipments meet ICAO requirements.

It has been mentionened in an earlier reply and I'll say it again: 30 years ago nobody thought Airbus would ever sell airplanes to US carriers.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

Ben Soriano
 
northwest 777
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:18 pm

Well, I hope fans of Continental Airlines like the looks of these birds. When they start getting the 757 w/ winglets to come on line in the fleet soon, something tells me they may look just a liiiiiittle bit similar.  Big grin
 
sevenair
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:44 pm

no,sorry, but no way, the reputation of the russian airliner market/airline industry is shattered, perhaps forever, My own mother knows nothing about planes, but whenever she knows theres a 'Russian' plane about, or she knows she may be on a 'Russian' aircraft (she knows because I tell her) she cringes, and will go nowhere near it.

Good luck to Tupolev, but no way will it penetrate the wesatern passenger market-yes, maybe cargo, but only because the cargo wont know its flying on a 'Russian' plane.
 
dazeflight
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:13 pm

@ Sevenair:

you said it, she knows nothing about planes...

ciao
Daniel
 
macc
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:18 pm

with schröders speech at the rollout (cooperation with russian manufacturers) we have a good chance to see the russian industrie recovering. this surely is a long term project. but aviation industry is a good deal political. and russia for sure wont give up its interests. i expect a close cooperation between airbus and russia. probably in the style of car manufacturers, most of them own other, cheaper manufacturers, just to cover the market. maybe we will also see sort of low-cost manufacturers on the market.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
AngelAirways
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:28 pm

amm

ahem, the Tu-204 has been around for quite a while now... it was designed in the late 80s as a Tu-154 replacement...

Whether it can at least theoretically go into service with wetsern airlines - yes.

Whether it will... unfortunately I have my doubts
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:31 pm

If the Russian industry is shattered as mentioned here, then why is Boeing investing in a Sukhoi project for a regional jet...??

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
richierich
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:31 pm

The only way you'd see this aircraft ever operate for a US airline is if it had an American name on it, say "Lockheed-Tupelov". Something akin to the Douglas-Sud Aviation Caravelle from the 60s.

Considering the market for new seven-fives fizzled and died, plus there are bound to be plenty of second hand 757s around, it ain't going to happen. Not in my lifetime.
None shall pass!!!!
 
AndersNilsson
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:41 am

The Tu-204 family is a worthy successor to the Tu-154 like the 757 to the 727.

Anders
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aeronuts
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:45 am

Never say never...

There's a hot competition going on right now for the next presidential helicopter. Who is one of the leading contender, the Euro's EH-101, with a Lockheed name in front of course. For the nay sayers that say it cannot happen, to think the President of the United States, flying in a European helicopter!!
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:41 am

I don't know...I think it looks more like an A321 than a 757, especially in the nose section. Anyone else?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
sterne82
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:48 am

Why don't you stop comparing it either to the A321 or to the 757?
It's a Tu-204-300 nothing more, nothing less.

Regards

 
airxliban
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:55 am

how do the operating economics compare to the A321? The 757 is out of production now anyway.

Are those RB211s on the TNT Tu-204?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
da man
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:25 am

Yes, those are RB.211s.
Part of Tupolev's plan to try to sell the a/c to western airlines.
War Eagle!
 
richierich
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:21 am

I think it will take more than Rolls engines to see this plane to Western airlines, at least here in the US.

Aeronuts, you are right about the Presidential helicopter. I live in Sikorsky country and most people here would be shocked if this project was "outsourced"!

Off the topic: Has the sitting President ever flown in a foreign-made aircraft? Concorde, for example? Just curious...
None shall pass!!!!
 
transPac
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:23 am

Will the Tu-204 break into the western markets? Most likely not. Will ANY Russian airliners be seen in the western market in the near future? Maybe. It depends on how successfully Russia integrates into the world economy. If Russia becomes similar to a Western European economy, with real private ownership and financial transparency, it's only a matter of time until we see a Russian mfgr compete with the west. However, as long as things remain murky in the CIS, we won't see any Russian airliners breaking into the world market. Russia's reputation as a whole needs to change before we see any serious interest.
 
eilennaei
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:38 am

The only thing keeping the Russians away is the deeply-rooted prejudice of the current generation of decision-makers, aged 50+ typically. There are absolutely no technical reasons why a two-man-crew Russian-made aircraft could not be a success on any suitable market. There is, I'm sure, a new generation of salesmen emerging from Russia as well.

regards



 
bmi330
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 am

I think some of the European airlines should have bought Russian airliners think of how cheap you can buy them all we need is Roman ambrvic to by bmi or a UK charter company and we will have western operators and fuels no probes for him. I say don't buy airbus by tupolev Europe.

Can see china and India buying Russian in future.
 
PapaNovember
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:05 am




I agree with KFLLCFII. I think it looks more like an Airbus than the 757.


 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:28 am

~"I agree with KFLLCFII. I think it looks more like an Airbus than the 757."~

Dare I say it looks like an Airbusized 757?


Look Ma, it's one of those 757-A321s!
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:29 pm

Its basically just an A321 and a 757 put together and renamed. But then you would have to look at the performance of the plane. If it is just like an A321 or a 757 it probably wouldn't make it's way into Europe and the America's. It looks kind-of cool.

It looks like all the other 204's though. http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=109
If the other one's sold then these will probably have the same sale rate. (Maybe, you never know it could be the best or a bomb).

jetBlueAtJFK
 
jcs17
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:40 pm

Oh, give me a break! If you really think that there is some kind of predjudice against Russian-built jetliners by Western airlines, you'd be absolutely right! First and foremost, most passengers would be highly skeptical about boarding a Russian built jet. Secondly, Russia isn't exactly known these days for strong production management, especially in terms of aircraft production, thus causing delays in delivery. Thirdly, parts for Boeing, MD, and Airbus are a lot easier to come by then parts for Russian aircraft in the Western world. Also there would be a huge a/c training problem. And lastly, there have been several problems in the past with Russian aircraft not living up to performance specs.

Listen, before you yell "bias!" you've got to look realistically at the facts.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
richie87
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:49 pm

This is a fascinating topic... and one that has long interested me. It's true that the post cold-war Russian aerospace companies have come up with some reliable, well built, and rather "economical" civil aircraft; both jet and turboprop regional models. The relative integration with western avionics and powerplant mfg's has certainly assisted their efforts. Thoretically and "on paper", this idea could merit some fiscal sense for the airlines. But since it's not a theoretical world, it will no doubt take some time for the Russian mfg's to be able to compete on a level-field with an industry that is fiercely competitive and territorial, really.
Maybe some person could do a PhD dissertation or Masters thesis about the possiblity and economics of passenger and/or cargo airlines using these things. It might be laughed at and thought of as naive, but then... a certain guy some years ago did something like that, and it was the root genesis of what became FedEx. There are possiblities !
 
erj
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:14 pm

Richie87: I agree. If I weren't already halfway through my thesis, I think this might have been a fun topic  Smile

I think the TU-204 has great potential. Unfortunately Cold War prejudices continue thanks to the great propaganda machines on both sides. I harbor little or no prejudice, albeit a bit of skepticism, against Russian aircraft. But most anyone older than 30 has some prejudice built into them from the environment they grew up in.

I think, preconceptions aside, the biggest challenge to Tupolev is setting up a support network. They will need to partner with a major western player before establishing themselves in the market here. Maybe if Airbus succeeds in sticking it to Boeing, a Boeing-Tupolev alliance would be entirely possible.

If I were in a position to consider options for an airline, I would certainly consider the Russian aircraft. I'm sure Tupolev would give any western airline a killer deal just to penetrate the market. Plus, how much would a successful aerospace industry help the Russian economy??? I think everybody would come out a winner.
 
Skydrol
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:31 pm

It also seems that Pavel Soloviyov has put some decent technology into the PS-90A powerplant for the TU-204/214 and IL-96.



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eilennaei
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:22 am

"...parts for Boeing, MD, and Airbus are a lot easier to come by then parts for Russian aircraft in the Western world. Also there would be a huge a/c training problem. And lastly, there have been several problems in the past with Russian aircraft not living up to performance specs.

Listen, before you yell "bias!" you've got to look realistically at the facts. "


Wakey wakey up, it's the 2000s already!
What might be the reason you could not ask for say FedEx or DHL to send you all the Russian a/c parts you need to the "Western" world? The Russians even know what a credit card is and many possess one. How do you think all the world's Antonov turboprop population is maintained, for instance? Well, most of it is (registered) in what is known as the Third World, but they're not using shells and pieces of glass no more.

I'd be inspiring to know the inside information of what the discrepancy between the published and the actual specs were for any Russian/Soviet a/c.

regards,

[Edited 2005-01-22 20:29:03]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:53 am

Funny, but do you think the Russians have a chance to penetrate the U.S. market with the tu-204 and the il-96?

No... the vast majority of western airlines are consolidating narrow-body fleet types right now, and the termination of the 757 line shows the demand for such aircraft is limited.

What might be the reason you could not ask for say FedEx or DHL to send you all the Russian a/c parts you need to the "Western" world?

Aircraft support requires much more than just a part in a box. It would require a massive investment to reach the service level available from Boeing and Airbus, that without, no airline would touch the Tupolev product. Take a look at Boeing Aviation Service-

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aviationservices/flash.html

The only thing keeping the Russians away is the deeply-rooted prejudice of the current generation of decision-makers, aged 50+ typically.

Or the fact that their products are not competitve with Airbus/Boeing products. Hell Aeroflot flies the 777 and A320 series over Russian aircraft...
 
eilennaei
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RE: New Tupolev TU-204 Photos!

Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:20 am

The IL-86/96 still flies, and will be flying for some time to come, heaven knows for how long. Even the IL-62 is around and active in scheduled service, although not with Aeroflot any more.
I congratulate Boeing for their able support organisation, but I fail to see how it would render it impossible for the Russians to implement a similar service in smaller scale (or in any scale needed). In fact I see any number of odd active a/c in odd places around the world, Western, Eastern, you name it, and somehow, they all seem get the support they need, being themselves the proof of it. (Any incompetent aviation authorities excluded).

regards,


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