keesje
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BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:10 pm

Not really a surprise..

British Airways yesterday gave its strongest signal to date that it expected eventually to add the Airbus A380 superjumbo to its long-haul fleet.

Rod Eddington, BA chief executive, said the "A380 may well have a role in our long-term fleet development programme."

Mr Eddington is confident that BA would still be able to secure attractive purchase terms, even if it is not among the initial group of launch customers for the A380.

"I've never subscribed to the concept of 'buy now while stocks last'," said Mr Eddington. Airbus needed to sell about 250 aircraft to break even on the A380 project and it was still about 100 short of that target, he said.




http://news.ft.com/cms/s/13e8cf40-6b53-11d9-9357-00000e2511c8.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
gladave
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:17 pm

Interesting post

I read in the Daily Mail (UK tabloid) that BA were looking at the A380, but if I remember correctly, would wait until other airlines have used the aircraft in order to have 'small issues' sorted and until it has been used and tested by other airlines.


David
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:20 pm

This also seems like an implied hurry the F--- up to Boeing...

...here's to hoping Airbus wins this one  Big thumbs up
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
keesje
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:28 pm

Interesting detail is Eddington is confident that BA will still be able to secure attractive purchase terms ; "I've never subscribed to the concept of 'buy now while stocks last'," said Mr Eddington. Airbus needed to sell about 250 aircraft to break even on the A380 project and it was still about 100 short of that target, he said.

In a different interview (the same day) Forgeard says : "With 149 orders from 14 airlines, including the most recent order from UPS, plus options, we are not far from the 250 which we expected to reach by 2008,"
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1106247220.html

Seems BA is getting active & the two gentle man had a "chat"..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
backfire
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:42 pm

Talk about old news...this came out FOUR YEARS AGO:


Eddington confirms BA's A380 interest
Kieran Daly, London (08Jun01, 12:34 GMT, 239 words)

British Airways (BA) CEO Rod Eddington has reiterated his belief that Airbus’ ultra-large A380 probably has a role to play in the carrier’s fleet but makes clear that a formal commitment is not on the airline’s current agenda.

Eddington, who has previously indicated that he is markedly more positive about the 550-seat aircraft than BA has publicly been in the past, notes that Qantas’ A380 order will effectively make the UK carrier an operator of the type through their joint venture on the Sydney-London ‘Kangaroo Route’.

Speaking to Reed Aerospace editors at BA’s London headquarters, Eddington said: “There is no doubt that we could profitably use some number of A380s today. But with all the complexity of everything else we are doing it is just not a priority for us. We have a huge fleet of Boeing 747-400s today.”

(source: Air Transport Intelligence)
 
keesje
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:57 pm

Backfire the news is not that BA knows the A380, but that it seems to be moving behind the scenes to ensure it 'll not be late..

If the A380 production line is filling up faster then thought, they can become motivated to adjust their long term fleet planning..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
behramjee
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:59 pm

Its pretty obvious that if BA dont want to lose F and J class pax to VS on their A 380 flights to DEL, JFK, SFO and LAX which will include all sorts of fancy features in the Upper Class suite...then they must order an aircraft the size of the A 380 and have as a upscale product to match Virgin Atlantic's!!!
 
Planesmart
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:05 pm

Longer it takes B to decide whether there will be a 747ADV, and if there is, if it will incorporate minor or major changes, the more airlines will look at, and sign up for the A38.

Expect a few existing A38 customers to add more options (a little bit of strategic position taking), and another 2-3 major airlines (European and Asian) to order in the next 90 days.
 
dreamcraft
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:16 pm

Wishfull thinking! Once Boeing launches the 747 Advanced, that would be it for this discussion.
 
Leskova
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:21 pm

Dreamcraft, care to enlighten us as to how you come to such an absolute conclusion?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
keesje
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:33 pm

Have to agree with Concordeboy (  Wow!), this puts Boeing under pressure to commit (very) soon to the 747adv as an anternative in future.

Major long haul carriers (JAL, BA, ANA, NW) will otherwise have no option then to secure timely slots on the A380 line..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:14 am

Yes but the 747 Adv will still not be able to compete with the A380, it will just sit nicely between the 777 and the A380 where it does today. BA have so many 747-400, why would they now buy some 747 Adv when they can buy the A380 which is bigger, newer and their competition will be flying it?
 
777236ER
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:17 am

BA have so many 747-400, why would they now buy some 747 Adv when they can buy the A380 which is bigger, newer and their competition will be flying it?

Because BA don't need an aircraft that big?
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EZYAirbus
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:20 am

BA may not need the A380 but how nice does it look in the BA Livery!!! I like it, hope BA do get some, looks lovely in those colors!

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
Sjoerd
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:26 am

Because BA don't need an aircraft that big?

If there is an airline that can use the A380 it is BA, they fly 7 B744s a day to JFK alone.
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:31 am

Wishfull thinking! Once Boeing launches the 747 Advanced, that would be it for this discussion.

I would say the B747 ADV is wishful thinking...it's nothing more than a paper plane, 100 times announced and 100 times cancelled again.

British Airways has no other choice than ordering the A380. In some years, Heathrow will be full of main competitors' A380s. Important routes to Abu Dhabi (EY), Bangkok (QF/TG), Doha (QR), Dubai (EK), Hong Kong (VS?), Los Angeles (VS), Melbourne (QF), New York (VS?), Singapore (QF/SQ), Sydney (QF) and Tokyo (VS?) will see A380s fully equipped with latest cabin features. Plus several other airlines taking away BA business via their hubs (KE, MH).
Airlines like SQ and VS will make a major marketing event out of the A380, and BA will have to react.


B773ER and A380 seem like a perfect replacement for the B747-400. I doubt there's a big market to fill the gap between the two.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
keesje
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:33 am

Because BA don't need an aircraft that big?

Well they say they will..

BA is The big fish out there for Airbus at this moment:

Large 747 fleet that won't fly forever, slot restrictions in a market that will threefold in the next 20 years.

Nearly all it's competitors (AF, LH, SIA, VS, EK) will be flying it in a few years and might be able to offer lower prices & better products..

IMO it is slowly becoming clear for BA they can't wait on the sideline for too long, it will weaken their position towards Airbus, which seems to become confident.

Now the game of price & conditions is starting between AB & BA, the stakes are high. Expect BA to make denying / downplaying / semi relaxed announcements & leak photos of dinner parties in Chicago..

Similar processes around CX..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Sjoerd
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:38 am

B773ER and A380 seem like a perfect replacement for the B747-400.

Try A346 and A380.
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
 
LHSTR
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:39 am

I am surprised that BA hasnt ordered some A380s yet.

LHR is one of the busiest airports in the world with BA running a lot of destinations with multiple B744s per day. In the next few years I know that BA and BAA open a new BA-only terminal in LHR, but I am not sure if the runway situation will change.

Without an additional runway, which I dont know if it is in the plans, and adding some growth, BA can easily use some A380s.
 
cedarjet
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:42 am

777236ER: BA don't need the A380 cos it's too big? Whaaaaaa? Jo'burg, NYC, LA, Tokyo, Sydney, Miami, Hong Kong, Mexico City, Singapore, Delhi, Bangkok etc etc - every 747 flight packed, every day (and a total 747 fleet of nearly 60 machines). I can't think of an airline that will need the A380 more than British Airways - who carry more international passengers than any other airline. The mockup at the top of the thread will definitely become a reality.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Ready4Pushback
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:48 am

...I hope so.

I didn't realise that T5 was going to be a BA-only terminal. I thought that T5 was being built to handle the A380s, in which case what will the other airlines that have already ordered it do? Can the other terminals handle the A380?
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:48 am

Try A346 and A380.

No chance for any A340 with BA. They are very satisfied with their B777s, and B773ERs are the only logic choice.
Introducing another type would not be wise anyways. And GE is not a problem for BA. A majority of their B777s is GE-powered.

I expect a B773ER order later this year, with A380 following next year or first half of 2007.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
ltbewr
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:54 am

BA would be an ideal customer of the A380, especially as designed for airlines like BA that serve in/out of slot restricted airports (like LHR and NRT), offer long haul intercontinental services (like to Australia, Asia, North America) and have enough customer base to use it. I would suggest they will order later this year a few (maybe 4-6) just to be sure have it for their needs. BA may still consider some B747ADV if the program is ever started soon as they may be better for those long haul routes where 777's are just a little too small and ETOPS or access to emergency airports issues arise.
 
LH423
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:00 am

they fly 7 B744s a day to JFK alone.

Yes, and if/when they order the A380, JFK will see maybe on 380 flight. BA prefer frequency to capacity on that route. Also, if you look most JFK flights are not filled in economy. There's too much capcity outside of people travel times, yet J and F are almost always 3/4 full or more. That's where JFK makes it's money, and business people prefer frequency. And that's why BA will always be the top airline on the New York routes. x7 to LHR, x1 to MAN, and x3 to LHR from EWR.

Where BA could use the A380 would be HKG, LOS, JNB, NRT, SIN, SYD, and BKK.

LH423
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Sjoerd
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:09 am

A346s along with the A380 make sense I think. If BA acts like a good Brit they buy the plane with the most Brittish components (wings and engines) and is as good as the B773ER. There is commonality with A320 and A380, of course commonality between 772 and 773 is greater.

Sjoerd

Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
 
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N328KF
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:23 am

Sjoerd:

Saying that the A340-600 is as good as the 777-300ER is not only rampant speculation, but contrary to what we know about which one is preferred as a moneymaker.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
GoAibusGo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:53 am

A340-600 and B777-300ER ARE the same
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:06 am

If BA acts like a good Brit they buy the plane with the most Brittish components (wings and engines) and is as good as the B773ER.

Airlines should keep national feelings out of aircraft choice. And in BA’s case, the A346 would NOT be as good as the B773ER. See my previous post.


There is commonality with A320 and A380

The A340 still would be a completely new type.


of course commonality between 772 and 773 is greater.

Indeed.


Saying that the A340-600 is as good as the 777-300ER is not only rampant speculation, but contrary to what we know about which one is preferred as a moneymaker.

We know nothing. In BA’s case, the B773ER would be a better moneymaker than the A346. However, for Lufthansa and Iberia the A346 seems to be the preferred moneymaker.
When will people finally realize that’s it’s quite senseless to compare two aircraft types blank - meaning without taking into consideration important aspects such as existing route and fleet structure, finance options, commonality, engine preference and so on and so on?


A340-600 and B777-300ER ARE the same

I don’t think so…



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:09 am

really? is that why most are going for the 777's?


Production
69 A340-500s/600s ordered by early 2003, of which 11 delivered. These include 17 A340-500 (1 delivered) and 52 A340-600 (10 delivered).

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=28


Production
Total 777-300 orders as of January 2003 stood at 121 (of which 56 300ER) with 44 delivered.

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=107


"Up the Irons!"
 
Leskova
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:17 am

Please - let's at least compare current data of comparable models...

A340-600: 104 orders per 31 December 2004 (source: airbus.com)
B777-300ER: 99 orders per 31 December 2004 (source: boeing.com)

So, no, most are not going for the B777-300ER in the direct comparison of these two planes - but, as Udo already mentioned, there are far more variables in the decision as to which plane is ordered by what airline than most of us know...

As for BA and the A380 - I'd say that an order for it is very likely, just as I'll agree that for BA, the B777-300ER is much more likely than an A340-600 is.

BA has B777s, they have GE powered ones (aside from RR powered ones), so the B777-300ER seems like a much better fit for their fleet than the A340 ever could be.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
gigneil
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:21 am

Saying that the A340-600 is as good as the 777-300ER is not only rampant speculation, but contrary to what we know about which one is preferred as a moneymaker.

Preferred here on a.net? Sure.

The A340-600 has outsold the 773ER. You have nothing else to go on.

N
 
leelaw
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:21 am

"BA don't need the A380 cos it's too big? Whaaaaaa? Jo'burg, NYC, LA, Tokyo, Sydney, Miami, Hong Kong, Mexico City, Singapore, Delhi, Bangkok etc etc - every 747 flight packed, every day (and a total 747 fleet of nearly 60 machines). I can't think of an airline that will need the A380 more than British Airways - who carry more international passengers than any other airline."

I keep seeing statements like this in these threads. If this were really the case, wouldn't BA already have both the necessity and ample funds to increase capacity with the A380 and an order would be on the books?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
GoAibusGo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:23 am

Same class people.

..........and yes a 320 is not the same as a 767, but a 320 is the same as a 737. So is the the 777 and the A333/340.

Thank you. And now you guys can go on with A vs B war, and telling wich airliner sold better than the other.
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:26 am

I keep seeing statements like this in these threads. If this were really the case, wouldn't BA already have both the necessity and ample funds to increase capacity with the A380 and an order would be on the books?

Not necessarily. As mentioned by someone above, they might want to wait until the aircraft enters service. We also shouldn't forget that BA holds most slots at LHR - so they are not as much affected as other airlines operating there. However, with demand into certain markets going up while frequencies cannot be increased, BA might order the A380. As I said, I don't expect an order until between end of 2006 and mid 2007.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Planesmart
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:38 am

A38 order for BA is likely if they can agree on terms.

Problem for BA is the launch price is no longer available, 747ADV hasn't materialised, EK & VS are holding strategic delivery positions, A38 is underweight (making it more attractive & forcing B to launch a more radical 747ADV to be be competitive, and with a later into service entry), and BA isn't the only airline in this position.

Instead of BA being able to use the 747ADV to extract better terms (from B or A), they will now be negotiating with A operating in hardball mode. Don't be surprised to see a BA order for the A38, together with a top-up order for another A model (or options converted to orders). Or if they can't agree, a large order to launch the 747ADV.
 
leelaw
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:45 am

"...they might want to wait until the aircraft enters service."

Why wait and see if there is an actual or perceived necessity? They didn't wait and see with Concorde, 747, 757, 777?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Ken777
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:53 am

I think BA is rather good at fleet management, especially in terms of matching aircraft capacity to seat demand. A few 380's would probably be good for them, but they are going to utilize other aircraft(like the 777 and 747) on 380 routes when the seat demand drops for seasonal reasons, or when frequency is considered an advantage. That means that the 777 and 744/747ADV will have important places in their fleet and will probably minimize the number of 380s that can be efficiently deployed.

I do not see BA putting the 380 on a route if they know that they will have to increase the number of super cheap seats in order to fill the plane. For a few years in the future this would minimize the number of 380s that wold be considered desirable by BA.

In terms of limited slots, I believe that the smaller, commuter props will be the area where adjustments are going to be made. A prop (or RJ) with 50 pax on board takes up a slot, just like a 767 or 380.
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:54 am

Why wait and see if there is an actual or perceived necessity? They didn't wait and see with Concorde, 747, 757, 777?

True, though Concorde was also a political move. As said by PlaneSmart, launch prices and big discounts are not available any more for the A380. With delivery positions gone for many years, Airbus can charge premium prices for the A380. However, I could imagine BA playing a trick on both Airbus and Boeing. Probably they want to give Airbus the impression of being heavily interested in the Boeing 747ADV - in order to get a price for the A380 which suits them. We have seen many airline playing that game. In most cases, airlines were the winners.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:57 am

n terms of limited slots, I believe that the smaller, commuter props will be the area where adjustments are going to be made. A prop (or RJ) with 50 pax on board takes up a slot, just like a 767 or 380.

But BA's smallest plane out of LHR is the A319, so not much left for adjustments.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
airtran737
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:02 am

http://www.reuters.com/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=businessNews&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=7394654

Here's an article that states that they dont want it no, and that they will explore all options. The ball is in Boeing's court now.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
airbazar
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:13 am

I think there's a group of airlines like BA, JL, ANA who paid a little too much attention to Boeing and are finding themselfs in an increasing jam. For the first time ever it seems Airbus got it right and are about to deliver an aircraft that is even better than advertised. BA and the others did not get in on the action from the start and now find themselves behind the curve ball, having to pay full price and wait longer for delivery slots. It was a gamble that may not pay up.

Airlines flying the A380 will be able to provide significantly better product to their premium passengers and with every one else flying the A380 on some of the most lucrative routes such as the kangoro route, BA will have no choice but to go for the A380 themselves.
 
anxebla
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:15 am

There was rumors here, in Spain, about a BA's order together with IB. If, at the end, there is an IB/BA merger, it makes a lot of sense.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
leelaw
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:29 am

"Airlines flying the A380 will be able to provide significantly better product to their premium passengers and with every one else flying the A380 on some of the most lucrative routes such as the kangoro route, BA will have no choice but to go for the A380 themselves."

Why can't "slot rich" BA compete effectively and profitably appealing to a different niche market by offering higher frequencies (more choice and flexibility) with the smaller planes?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
miaskies
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:32 am

Hmm Maybe not anytime soon...

according to REUTERS:

advertisement



British Airways says not shopping for A380
Fri Jan 21, 2005 08:43 AM ET

LONDON, Jan 21 (Reuters) - British Airways (BAY.L: Quote, Profile, Research) , Europe's second-largest airline, said on Friday it had no current plans to buy the double-decker A380 aircraft but would consider the giant plane in its long-term fleet plans.
"Buying new aircraft is the single biggest capital outlay for any airline, and is not something we do simply to keep up with the Joneses," BA Chief Executive Rod Eddington wrote in the airline's staff newspaper.

However, Eddington said the A380 may have a role to play in its long-term fleet development programme although the company would look at all alternatives.

BA said it operated a relatively young fleet of aircraft and did not need to replace planes, particularly while it was under pressure to cut debt and reduce costs.

"I've never subscribed to the concept of buy now while stocks last," Eddington said, referring to the A380.

Planemaker Airbus threw a glitzy party in France earlier this week to unveil the A380 -- the world's largest passenger aircraft -- which other airlines plan to fly from Heathrow airport where BA is based.

BA shares were 1.0 percent firmer at 249.9 pence in a lower broader market at 1302 GMT.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
Planesmart
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:35 am

Udo & Airbazar.

You are right on the money. Negotiations are in play now. And BA are trying to play down their interest, because they are not the only airline to realise without a 747ADV, they have no business plan B.

For the A38, the cards are all with A. No 747ADV means A is in the driving seat, with EK and VS smiling in the sidelines. A will optimise production rates at a level to discourage B from entering, at the same time rationing supply to maintain good margins (just as B used to do with the 747).

With the 7e7 / A35, the airlines are in the driving seat.

BA may have to buy options from EK and/or VS. Now what would we like in return?
 
gkirk
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:47 am

I think that BA wont buy the A380, but will order the 7E7. They are not a crazy airline like EK etc, but will prefer to operate long haul routes at a decent frequency. I wouldnt be surpirsed if BA also ordered the 772LR, despite those a/c only being offered on GE engines.
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Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:08 am

Why can't "slot rich" BA compete effectively and profitably appealing to a different niche market by offering higher frequencies (more choice and flexibility) with the smaller planes?

1. Bilateral agreements. In many markets, frequencies simply cannot be increased to as much as airlines need and want (e.g India, Nigeria). And expecting open skies policies with all these countries any time soon is like dreaming of a world in peace by 2006.  Wink/being sarcastic

2. On many routes, adding frequencies would not make much sense, due to the limited arrival time periods at destination airports. Look at Europe-Asia flights, or Europe-South Africa flights. Flights cannot just arrive and leave in the middle of the night in Europe (and in other regions too).
So if you have two late evening departures with B747-400 within half an hour, there’s no frequency advantage. It makes more sense to put an A380 on such a route rather than introducing a third frequency only minutes after the other two flights.
Just have a look at BA’s timetable, you can find several examples.


BA may have to buy options from EK and/or VS. Now what would we like in return?

Excellent observation. Trading options for slots could be a hot option…


I think that BA wont buy the A380, but will order the 7E7.

Oh, didn't know these aircraft are direct competitors?  Wink/being sarcastic

A380 and B7E7 don't exclude each other. My guess is BA goes for both models. Simply due to slot constraints, the A380 is necessary on the long term. And the B7E7 will replace B767, both on long hauls and European sectors.

But don't expect BA going for B7E7 only - where would they take all the slots for such a "frequency policy"? Order them from David Copperfield?  Wink/being sarcastic


they are not a crazy airline like EK etc, but will prefer to operate long haul routes at a decent frequency.

EK are not crazy but are funded on a wise long term business plan. 1. They are one of the most profitable airlines in the world. 2. EK are also going for frequencies where they can (just check their timetable).


I wouldnt be surpirsed if BA also ordered the 772LR, despite those a/c only being offered on GE engines.

If they do so, it won't be for the C-market. And going with it on the B-market cannot be expected soon, there would be other priorities (e.g. B773ER).
GE engines would not matter at all.



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Udo
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FCKC
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:10 am

ANXEBLA

The rumour you mention makes great sense.

I really think that both BA and IB will order A380s , maybe sooner than expected , probably before 2008.IB will really need it , as trafic will grow for them on the South American market and soon the A340-600s will be too small , without speaking of the Canarias market.

Out of the 5 main carriers in Europe , only one is not ready to buy it , as their financial situation is not brilliant , and simply as i think for the moment they do not need it.It's Alitalia.It has been rumored that J Chirac has made some kind of pressure on S Berlusconi to convince him , Alitalia buys some A380s , but i don't think AZ is on the verge to do so.

Do you know how many years IB will keep the 747-400s ?



 
leelaw
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:22 am

". Bilateral agreements. In many markets, frequencies simply cannot be increased to as much as airlines need and want (e.g India, Nigeria)."

India and Nigeria is where the money is?
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Udo
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RE: BA Eyes Airbus For The Long Haul, A380

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:28 am

India and Nigeria is where the money is?

Money or not, at least these countries are very popular with Business travelers. Especially flights to Africa are among the most profitable ones in the world. And you can be sure, flights to India would explode if restrictions were gone. India is one very important future market, just like China.


Regards
Udo
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