levent
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Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:33 am

According to the following article in Spanish (http://www.diariodenavarra.es/actualidad/noticia.asp?not=2005011811201343&dia=20050118&seccion=economia), Iberia is in talks with Boeing and Airbus regarding a major fleet renewal plan. The decision regarding the types to be ordered should be taken in this year´s first trimester.

The plans include the replacement of 76 aircraft out of the 154 which comprise Iberia´s fleet at the moment. 37 of these planes are MD80 series, 17 Boeing 757´s and furthermore 22 of the oldest A320´s.

Iberia is also studying the A380 for its routes to Latin America but reportedly is not planning to order it in the present situation.

Airbus is offering its A320 family for replacement of above mentioned aircraft.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:39 am

well i think they will go with airbus. doesn't make much sense to have 737's longside A320's, an to educate the pilots is expensive... i think theire goal is to have 1 fleet type for cost reductions, and since they plan to keep the youngest A320's and already have A321's it wouldn't make sense ordering the 737
 
anxebla
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:44 am

Iberia will doesn't buy any 737... never!
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
levent
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:45 am

You never know, type commonality is not the only thing airlines look at. Many airlines fly similar-capacity types of Boeing and Airbus at the same time...
 
levent
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:46 am

Anyone has more details about the Air Europa 737´s that flew for Iberia for a while, and Iberia´s experiences with them?
 
miaskies
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:14 am

Im sure both Boeing and Airbus are pushing the 7E7 & A350 to replace the 757 line, it would be nice to see those birds do longer haul flights to smaller cities in Latin American that maybe as of now are "over served" with the A343 ornot served at all. Specially popular vacation spots like Varadero, Cartagena, Margarita...etc.

Again...they will probably go w/ A320 family but who knows? With the newly acquired A319's that were based in their former MIA hub it would only make sense...

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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:15 am

Hey,


I thought that Iberia was set on the A340-600 and the A340-300 for its long-haul routes?

I would think that the A350 or 7E7 might replace the 757s the A320s and A319s I think would replace older MD-80s.

I was under the impression that Iberia just under went a fleet renewal?
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gladave
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:16 am

Are iberia likely to be looking at the a380?

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miaskies
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:34 am

Hmmm IB and the A380 is questionable...
do they have the need for it? maybe perhaps dual MAD-EZE-SCL routes but then that would eliminate the non stop service to MAD from both (just an idea). Then again would the majority of Latin American airports with the exception of some majors (example=SCL/EZE) be able to cater to the A380, is another big question and "problem" ??? and also would they ever?...

I could see them possibly using the A380 for their MIA route, as their daily MAD flights usually book up months in advance.

Time will tell...

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FCKC
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:12 am

GLADAVE

As ANXEBLA said in another thread about BA A380 , the answer is YES.

Do Spanish people can confirm Iberia has publicly revealed they are looking at both 7E7/A350? State your info.Thanks.
 
mark777300
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:58 pm

After the whole well publisized order for the A346 in which Boeing lost out at last second which appeared in a Wall Street Journal article, I doubt that Boeing would be even interested in showing up. That was the attitude they had then when IB asked for proposals for a 747 fleet replacement. Boeing was reluctant to even send a sales person, but did it anyway, and they lost the order. I'm not sure if the 7E7 or A350 would be a viable replacement for the 757 fleet. I would feel that the A321-200 or even the once proposed 737-900X would be a better fit, and even something smaller for the replacement of the MD-80 fleet. Regardless, at this point, I just can't see IB ordering 737's, maybe the 7E7, but I'm being skeptical. I'm sure that IB had healthy load factors to JFK, MIA, and EZE to warrant a handful of A380's. Maybe about 6 of them could be feasible.
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:37 pm

At this moment, Iberia is NOT interested in the A380. It has been repeated many times by IB's management, and has been said one more time after the A380 launch ceremony. It's in the press release mentioned above (read the thread starting post...in Spanish).

[Edited 2005-01-22 11:10:53]
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azmd80
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:55 pm

MAD EZE flight is always full months in advance in every class. I think that also the MIA route is the same thing, but a ordering a new aircraft like A380 only to serve such route is in my opinion a bit difficoult. Probably the choice could be caused by political reason (Spanish prime minister was in the first row at A380 presentation), but manteining a line of only 4 aircraft is a nonsense.
A340 600 is large enough to be used in such route and A343 or 330 could serve to implement frequency and to serve other sudamerican airport less important.

MD80 and A320 will be sobstituited of course by A320 family of wiche IB is one of the largest operator in the word. I've red in a magazine that there are some A320 with more hours of flight than MD80. Anybody Know something about?

I think that (unfortunately) also 757 is going to be phased out by 321. (IB uses 757 on european route where the larger range is not a real benefit).
 
behramjee
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:08 pm

Azmd80, you are absolutely right...IB doesnt need an aircraft of the size and range of the A 350/ B 7E7 to replace its B 757s when the A 321 can handle that job very well.

All of IBs B 757 routes to Africa and Europe can easily be flown to nonstop using the A 321 alongwith similar pax capacity.

As for flying the A 380 to Latin America, keep dreaming for at least another 5-7 years...their A 346s and A 343s are perfectly fine and well suited to their long haul trans-atlantic and Latin American flights.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:11 pm

i know IB recently add 2/3 747-400's to theire fleet on wed-lease from Atlanta icelandic, are they planning to add more 400's to the fleet or will both leave in 2006?
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:27 pm

Nothing has been said about adding more 744s (but I would love to see more of them being added). If nothing new comes out, then both 744s will be returned to Air Atlanta by the end of 2006 when the A346 fleet will be complete.
I flew on TF-AMB last weekend, and even though it looked a little bit "used" on the inside, it hadn't lost any of the mighty 747-400's character. I'll write a trip report with pics! (will be online tonight).
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EZYcrew
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:05 pm

I think IB will chose the best deal offered, 320's or 737's.... BA, AF, LH just to name a few operate a mixed short/medium-haul fleet without any problems.

Look at easyJet : ordered Airbuses despite their previous commitment to the 737... apparently the cost of operating a dual fleet is minor compared to the savings it got ordering the 319's.
 
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tavong
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:09 am

I think IB will chose the best deal offered, 320's or 737's.... BA, AF, LH just to name a few operate a mixed short/medium-haul fleet without any problems.

Of course they would get the best deal but IB has been walking towards an all Airbus fleet so i really don't think we will see Boeing planes (aside of the 747s) on Iberia, Anyway i really don't think the order would be big since IB fleet is pretty young so the best option for them is to continue with Airbus. BA, AF, LH have a mixed fleet BUT they are turning to have an All Airbus fleet in Short/Medium Haul so the Example is not the rigth at this time.

Look at easyJet : ordered Airbuses despite their previous commitment to the 737... apparently the cost of operating a dual fleet is minor compared to the savings it got ordering the 319's.

In fact Easyjet got an EXTREMELY good Discount on the Airbus planes so they "shifted" from Boeing to Airbus, but there you see that the Plane numbers are High so there you still have mass Economy, in anycase i really don't thimk that IB would get a HUGE deal since has said before Boeing would not put too much efforts on an offer for IB so i really don't think that IB would get any other Boeing plane.

Gus
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Iberia340600
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:21 am

To add my two cents....I dont think it would be a very wise decision to go ALL Airbus for IB. It really is not a great idea to be totally dependent on one aircraft manufacturer. Not to say that Airbus is going under anytime soon but it is good to have somewhat of a mix.

To me it would make sense to replace the 22 "older" A320's with new A320's and replace the B757's with A321's. As far as the MD80 fleet is concerned I would opt for the B737 to replace those...just to keep a bit of a mix in there.

Any opinions?
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N1120A
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:35 am

>I would think that the A350 or 7E7 might replace the 757s <

Um, the A350 is supposed to be around the same size as a 772, so how in the world would it be a replacement for a 753, let alone the 752s at IB. Even the 7E8, which would be the closest in size, is more the size of a 753 than a 752. Also, neither would have the performance of the 757. For that matter, neither would the A321/739, but they would be closer. Also, the MD-80s (exception being the MD-87s) are similar in size to the A320/738, so that replacement would not be difficult at all. As for the MD-87s, A319s/73Gs would work (especially since the 717 is gone and the 736/A318 are gas hogs) with not too much gain in capacity.
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PPVRA
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:19 pm

Indeed, the 7e7/350 are too large for a 752 replacement (RG could take those 752s)... And an A321/A320 order is inevitable IMO. However, I'm sure A and B will try to push for some 7e7/350 orders as well.

How about some E190/5 for those MD-87s? As said above, the A318/736 are gas hogs and it would not be very wise to go with an all one manufacturer fleet... so why not? What's the seat config. for IB's MD-87s anyways?

Good to see IB maintainig a young fleet!

Cheers,

PPVRA

[Edited 2005-01-23 04:36:04]
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tavong
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:59 pm

Indeed, the 7e7/350 are too large for a 752 replacement (RG could take those 752s)... And an A321/A320 order is inevitable IMO. However, I'm sure A and B will try to push for some 7e7/350 orders as well.

At this time IB doen't have any plane that could fit onto the A350/7E7 market, it's quite sure that IF IB goes for A350 (i really doubt they would go Boeing instead in the way they take fleet decisions) it surely can replace some A340-300 routes, anyway i still find very doubtfull that IB would take A350s, their long haul fleet Will surely go for A340-300/500.

thay surely would go for More A321....Surely.

How about some E190/5 for those MD-87s? As said above, the A318/736 are gas hogs and it would not be very wise to go with an all one manufacturer fleet... so why not? What's the seat config. for IB's MD-87s anyways?

Surely Not, maybe if Air Nostrum goes for a 70-90 Airliner they surely go for CRJ-900, anyway i really Expect IB to go for more A319s to replace MD-87s, MAYBE they can think on A318s but i really don't think that posibility too much seriously but has said IB is going tor all Airbus, wise or Not it's IB main plan.

Gus
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Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:39 pm

Just read in this month's issue of "Avion Revue" that Iberia will get additional B744s in the upcoming months.
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:01 pm

Well maybe IB will get some A380's to market flights from South America via MAD to Asia, especially considering that the US policy towards visas for people from there will not change any time soon.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:20 pm

yeah.... as said IBERIA IS NOT INTRESTED IN THE A380!

For there long haul fleet they have A340-600s and A340-300s.

I woud not be surprised if after the IB fleet of A340-600s is complete they add an order for more.

I would like it to if Iberia got more B747-400s! I am flying on one from MAD-TFN in April and really looking forward to it!

Iberia has just recently gone under a fleet renewal plan. They got rid of there DC-10s, A300s, and 727s. The DC-10s got replaced with the A340-300s the A300s got replaced with the 757s and A320s and the 727s got replaced with the A319s.

Also Iberia just finished fazing out the 747-200 from there fleet (I think)
I have not seen EC-DIB at MAD for a while.

And the 747-300s are due back to Air Atlanta I think at then end of March?

Iberia is just about to take delivery of another A340-600 EC-JCZ.

But I dont see IB getting 737s in the future. They will probaly get more A319s or A320s to replace the MD-87s and 88s and even maybe the A350 to replace 757s. Iberia seems to be heading into the Airbus direction.
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Fermarta
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:06 am

AlitaliaMD11

"Iberia is just about to take delivery of another A340-600 EC-JCZ"

The new A340-600 is registered EC-JCY, not EC-JCZ. Arrived from TLS Thursday and is flying IB6809-IB6808 MAD-GIG-MAD.

"I have not seen EC-DIB at MAD for a while"

It is still flying; in fact arrived from MIA this morning. B743 TF-ATI is still unavailable after the incident on Sunday 23th and IB still need 2 B747, one to fly to SDQ (TF-ATJ) and the other one to go to MIA some days.
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TACAA320
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:54 pm

"B743 TF-ATI is still unavailable after the incident on Sunday 23th and IB still need 2 B747, one to fly to SDQ (TF-ATJ) and the other one to go to MIA some days."

Sorry for the question but I was at a Houston hospital on the 23rd.. Many days out of A.net with no internet access. What happened with TF-ATI?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:18 pm

Fermatra


I am sorry, I am always getting those new A340-600s regs mixed up.

TACAA320

TF-ATI had engine problems while taking off from MAD, and aborted take-off.
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scbriml
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:47 pm

BA, AF, LH just to name a few operate a mixed short/medium-haul fleet without any problems.

But those airlines are in the process of replacing 737s with A32x planes. In each of those fleets, the A32x are the planes currently being purchased or most recently purchased. Over a longish time period, they are all replacing 737s with A32x.

The article says that IB is looking to replace MD80s, B757s and their oldest A320s. I don't know why people expect them to look at the A350 or 787 to do that - that's way too much plane. This should be an absolute shoe-in for Airbus with a mix of A319s, A320s and A321s.
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:42 pm

The plans include the replacement of 76 aircraft out of the 154 which comprise Iberia´s fleet at the moment. 37 of these planes are MD80 series, 17 Boeing 757´s and furthermore 22 of the oldest A320´s.

This, from the original post is what the order is about. I have seen some similar reports on some newswires too. This could be one of the larger narrowbody orders of the year and I'd have to say that the A320 family would have the advantage over any Boeing offering. If IB replace the MD-87 & 752 that's 2 less subtypes replaced by more of those they already operate and the cost benefits are very much in IBs favour.

AlitaliaMD11

yeah.... as said IBERIA IS NOT INTRESTED IN THE A380

Ok, but if IB were to order up to 75 frames for their short haul requirements wouldn't they be able to use that purchasing power to negotiate more favourable terms for an MoU or LoI for the A380 as part of the overall package? Just a question.

Regards
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:59 am

The thing about ordering the A380 with Iberia is that most of the Latin American and South American cities they serve are not ready for the A380. Some of the airport are not even ready for the A340 but they send them anyway.

To answer your question they probaly could, but most of the airports in Latin America are not close to being ready for the A380, and I am not sure if the construction at MAD was made so they could handle an A380?
If Iberia where to order the A380 I could see them flying it to MIA and than starting there latin american network again with the A319s, which I don't think they want to do.

I mean can you see a A380 landing at these airport?


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Also Iberia likes to send thier long-haul planes to the Canary Islands since there are high loads on those flights, there is know way an A380 could land at TFN!


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ptknight
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:06 am

I'll buy a ticket to wherever just to fly on a A380 with IB colors  Big grin
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:57 am

Thanks AlitaliaMD11

I must admit an A380 would have a problem operating into some of those airports.  Smile

My main reason for the question was that IB have actually been quite successful at reducing their fleet types and also very good at securing favourable terms when purchasing new equipment. With up to 75 frames the terms they could get could be quite attractive even if only for options to meet projected long term growth. Again, thanks for your answer.

Regards
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EddieDude
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RE: Iberia Fleet Renewal Plans

Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:06 am

AlitaliaMD11, I agree many Latin American airports are not ready and will not be ready for the A380. However, GRU, EZE and MEX are the only ones that could sustain the traffic and I am sure that GRU is/will be ready for the A380. About MEX, I suspect that the renovations currently underway include the construction of one or two gates that can receive the type but it would be nice if someone from Mexico could confirm this. As for EZE, I really don't know.

In any case, I agree that IB is not interested in the A380 at the moment since it is doing great with the A343's, the A346's and the wet-leased 744's in its high-traffic long-haul routes. Who knows what could happen later, though.
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