nsfguy
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Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:27 am

I have read the new Skywhale will have a two person morgue on board. Refrigerated and sealed for odor's. Anyone have any real info on this?
 
wietse
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:30 am

I wouldn't be surprised. The A340-500 has one of those. Look in the database, there are pictures of it.

Wietse
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Newark777
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:30 am

Do they really expect a lot of people to be dying on their flights? I certainly hope not.  Smile

Harry
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keesje
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:32 am

It's nothing new.. people die onboard almost daily.. statistically, just because of the shear volumes these days..
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:35 am

They should have a small clinic staffed by a doctor instead. It may help save lives.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
Newark777
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:37 am

Maybe they can put the clinic in between the gym and the casino.  Big grin

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
SATL382G
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:38 am

A small clinic and a doctor? That would surely wipe out whatever profit margin this aircraft has. Maybe these pax who are dying should not be flying in the first place......
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:40 am

Or maybe the refridgerated morge is a good idea. It can always be used to chill the liquor when there is no body in there  Big thumbs up
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:25 am

Cruise ships have them, why not the 380?

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Newark777
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:30 am

Cruise ships I would think you would absolutely need them. A few thousand people out on a boat for more than a week, and a lot of them being old. Someone is bound to die unfortunately.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:34 am

"I wouldn't be surprised. The A340-500 has one of those. Look in the database, there are pictures of it."

You've peaked my curosity. I looked in the database here but couldn't find any. Anyone?

-77
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air2gxs
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:36 am

So how much are you willing to pay for this small clinic, doctor or nurse, insurance, licensing, drugs, etc? All for someone who will, for the most part, be treating air sick passengers.

If the aircraft has the range and capacity that Airbus promises, a small morgue would be used on occasion and after the intial cost and the associated maintenance costs doesn't really bite into the profit margin.
 
SNATH
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:59 am

Or maybe the refridgerated morge is a good idea. It can always be used to chill the liquor when there is no body in there

"Ladies and gentlemen, given the unfortunate event of our fellow passanger's death, we need to remove all the beer from the chilled compartment in order to place his body there. So, from now on, beer is half-price. Enjoy the rest of your flight."  Acting devilish

Tony
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dogfighter2111
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:35 am

Nice one SNATH.

I've never heard of a morgue on an aircraft but i have heard of people dying on an aircraft and doctors isuing death certificates onboard.

Dog
 
YYZ4RADD
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:01 am

Sounds like a "grave" mistake on the part of Airbus...

Sometimes these airplane manufacturers go for the "overkill"

lol

Regards,

YYZ4RADD
 
FrequentFlyKid
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:02 am

I think saying they have a morgue is a little bit of an overstatement. It's nothing more than a compartment to store a deceased person. There's a little bit more to a morgue than that.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:04 am

I think its a great idea, SQ has them on the A345's. Seeing how SOP for most airlines has been just to cover the passenger in their seat with a blanket until arrival on a 12+ hour flight the body will start to decompose and make other pax uncomfortable.
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777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:10 am

"I think its a great idea, SQ has them on the A345's. Seeing how SOP for most airlines has been just to cover the passenger in their seat with a blanket until arrival on a 12+ hour flight the body will start to decompose and make other pax uncomfortable. "

I don't think it's intended for people who die WHILE onboard. If someone is sick or dieing they would divert to the nearest airport anyway. More likely it's used for the already deceased being transported from one place to another, it's quite common.

-77
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FrequentFlyKid
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:19 am

777 that's not at all what it's for. It's absolutely for people that expire onboard.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:20 am

No, they are definitely for people who die on board, people who are being transported as corpses aren't kept in the cabin. If you are over the middle of the pacific a diversion can be a long way, thats why it is necessary to have some place to store the body.
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777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:27 am

I'm under the impression these "refrigerators" are under the main deck in the cargo hold? Anybody know for sure? I've yet to see a picture of one.

IF that's true, then they're not going to be able to put a dead person in there. How do you put a dead person in the cargo hold in flight?

Think about it like this, what are the odds someone is going to die in the middle of a flight? Do you think those odds are high enough to warrant Airbus including a "refrigerator" on the main deck? Having people die in the middle of a trans-oceanic flight is not a common event.

I'm sticking to my original theory, unless someone has some factual proof to back up their stance. Corpses as cargo are much more common and frequent than people dying in flight, that's simple statistics.

-77
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A319114
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:29 am

I think the pic has been removed, I'm absolutely positive I saw one in the database once.
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SNATH
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:33 am

I think the pic has been removed, I'm absolutely positive I saw one in the database once.

Oh, yes, it was there. I remember a thread about it, in fact.
I wonder why they removed it...

Tony
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APFPilot1985
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:33 am

A link on the SQ a345:
"http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1213943,00.html"

as for how often it happens, often enough
"http://www.airlinecrew.net/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&main=126963&type=thread"
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777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:40 am

Heh, you're right, I'm wrong.

That's downright creepy. A locker by the exit doors? Ehh, that gives me the willies.

-77
PHX based
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:41 am

No kidding, no as creepy as spending 8 hours with a newly deceased person in the seat next to you though lol
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CRPilot
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:46 am

Slow down fellows, last time I read something on this topic, I read that in the States, you cannot declare someone dead on board, unless there is a physician on the flight. Most airlines have a corporate policy (again in the states, don't know about the rest of the world!) that you have to wait 'til you land. So, if he/she has not been declared dead, then how can they refrigerate them? Again, I don't know about the rest of the world, but that's how it works here.
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prebennorholm
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:47 am

Excuse me, are there any long range pax planes out there flying with no morgue?

Let's assume 400 B777s, half of them flying at any one time with a load factor of 70% - 250 pax per plane. That is 50,000 people constantly flying on board a 777 at all times. (Round figures).

How much people suddenly die from a stroke in a city with 50,000 inhabitants? Not one every day, but... If they on avarage get 80 years old, then 1.71 persons must die each day. If 10% die from a sudden stroke, then it's one every week.

In older days, on the ship there was always a preast, who could read, and a bible. And then there was a slide. And then some sharks in the sea to do the rest of the job. But the old days ended more than thirty years ago!!!
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777wt
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:01 am

As for a fact, KLM had a person die in flight from AUA to the AMS in a 747, they landed somewhere in between to and the lady who sat next to him freaked out so bad she wanted to get off the plane.
They unloaded the deceased and let her off then continued onto their flight to AMS.

And as for the SQ pic, it was on here, it looked like a door with a pull out tray inside.
 
undehoulli
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:00 am

When I interned with ExpressJet this summer I learned of CO and ExpressJet's policy dealing with people who die on the flight. Obviously if it's a medical emergency onboard, the aircraft will divert but if the person is dead, hey, they were already going where the flight is headed!

No one can be declared dead on a CO or XJT flight, even by a person "professionally qualified" to do so (that means a doctor can't declare the person dead). The individual can be declared when being met by the ambulance at the destination. When I was jumpseating once, a captain said he's had a person die onboard before. They simply covered the person up and continued. He told me that legally speaking, people don't die on airplanes, they die on the jetway (where they can officially be declared dead).
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57AZ
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Death While Travelling...

Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:52 am

I can't really see the possibility of having a doctor onboard each A380 flight. A more realistic possibility would be to outfit each bird with an advanced first aid kit, including an AED and require at least the lead flight attendants to be qualified to use the equipment. Oceangoing ships are regulated differently and most have a full medical team with ship-to-shore telecommunications with a major shore-based medical facility. In the event of a passenger or crewmember falling ill, they will attempt to put them ashore or airlift them. In the case that a passenger or crewmember dies at sea, there are three possibilities. The most modern ships have a temporary morgue where the body can be stored until the ship arrives at the next port-of-call. Ships not equipped with an onboard morgue will either put into port to offload the body. Otherwise, the body is buried at sea even onboard ocean liners or cruise vessels. My mother witnessed a burial at sea while sailing on the SS United States going from New York to the UK. Standing on deck, she noticed some activity on one of the lower decks and saw a detail of sailors carrying a litter with a body sewn into a weighted canvass bag (sewing the body into a weighted canvass bag is a holdover from the days of sail-the sails being made of canvass) covered with the US flag. After a prayer given by the Captain, the litter was placed on the gunwhale and raised to a 45 degree angle, allowing the body to slide out from under the flag and overboard. Word was that the crewmember was an older sailor who had died of natural causes.
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flybyguy
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:11 pm

I don't think it's intended for people who die WHILE onboard. If someone is sick or dieing they would divert to the nearest airport anyway. More likely it's used for the already deceased being transported from one place to another, it's quite common.

That is not standard practice for transport of the deceased. A corpse shipped by the airlines usually is shipped by crate (with specific labels indicating that the contents are indeed human remains and the proper places to handle the crate to ensure that the body isn't jostled or desecrated). This crate is usually placed in the bulk hold of commercial aircraft.

The body would have been previously prepared by the mortician to undergo the journey. As far as the details, I'm not sure maybe extra embalming fluid or dry ice is used?
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malaysia
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:15 pm

hope no one steals my kidneys for non-revving on an A380 flight
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videns
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:22 pm

That might apply to sailors, but I work in the cruise industry and I'm told that when the ship doesn't have a temporary morgue, that they put the bodies in special sealed bags, and just in the main low temperature fridge. My understanding also is that they have rules and regulations as to where to put a body. It's not like they put them next to food or anything, but I haven't been able to visit any of the refrigerators yet, so I don't know how well separated the compartments are within...
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BritishMidland
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:27 pm

I believe that this is an interesting topic, however this has been discussed ad naseum.

Perhaps the airlines should start building morgues for themselves.

"In the long-run, we're all dead." -John Maynard Keynes
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richie87
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:32 pm

I have seen an actual photo of the sky-morgue on the A345, which Singapore used. Obviously, a passenger dying in-flight can and has happened, and it's no doubt a better option than spending hours of flight-time and ( hate to point it out ) burning thousands of tons of fuel to divert somewhere, particularly on very long-haul oceanic routes.

Besides, if a crew member INSISTS that a passenger needs to cool it and "chill out", then they can have some bite in the threat ! "Chill out, Mr. Passenger, or we have got JUST the perfect seating place for you...!"

And then, of course... "NO ! You cannot, repeat, CAN'T smoke in the sky-morgue... so don't ask us again !"
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:39 pm

They cover them with a blanket and leave them in their seat? That is ridiculous! Do you think the passengers in the next seat want to sit next to a dead body for hours? I sure don't.

I think the procedure would be putting them into a bathroom and locking the door.
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QANTASforever
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:01 pm

A morgue on the A380?

Wow - I knew the flights were going to be long haul but I didn't know they'd be THAT long haul.

QFF
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dtwclipper
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:05 pm

Here is a picture of the "deathbed" on the A340.

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wdleiser
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:27 pm

It is easy to get to the Cargo holds in many aircraft during flight, there are stairs down to them. Don't turn this into an A vs. B war. I think every longhaul jet should have them atleast. My stepmom was pursering the Lufthansa 744 flight to IAD last month that had to land in EHAM because of a dying passenger. Supposedly he flatlined twice. Now if that happened over the ocean, I sure as hell would not want a dead corpse next to me.
 
777STL
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:57 am

"They cover them with a blanket and leave them in their seat? That is ridiculous! Do you think the passengers in the next seat want to sit next to a dead body for hours? I sure don't.

I think the procedure would be putting them into a bathroom and locking the door."

Or better yet, you could put the deceased in the crew rest!

-77
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afay1
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:12 am

Someone aptly named Davy Jones' Locker on the SIA A345 "KrisMorgue"....
 
cheekie747girl
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:18 am

We at LHR had an onboard death on our A340-300 (no morgue fitted) this past saturday, aircraft was diverting until pax pronounced dead. Death of pax during flight is alot more common than you would like to think...
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:25 am

... more realistic possibility would be to outfit each bird with an advanced first aid kit, including an AED and require at least the lead flight attendants to be qualified to use the equipment...

Isn't that now required by the FAA? I thought I read somewhere that it was, but I could be mistaken.
 
globetrekker
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:02 am

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1560183/

The definitely removed the pic of the so-called "KrisMorgue" SQ had on the A345.
You only see an empty square.......

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zippyjet
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RE: Morgue On The A-380? Really?

Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:17 pm

"Or maybe the refrigerated morgue is a good idea. It can always be used to chill the liquor when there is no body in there."

Or maybe sushi and other epicurean delights! Watch, Richard Branson will outfit some of his "skywhales" with a bonafide mortuary. He can even have it designed around the theme of dead druggy rock stars! In another thread I suggested the huckster of rock stars and so called music spin off a brand called Virgin Eternal Who knows, maybe he can add a crematorium of the skies.
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