CanadaEH
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Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:34 pm

Aviation Partners Boeing Teams up With WestJet to Launch 737-600 Blended Winglet(TM) Program
Monday January 24, 11:41 am ET
Canadian Carrier Saves Fuel and Boosts Route Opportunities with Aviation Partners Boeing(R) Blended Winglet Technology


SEATTLE, Jan. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- WestJet enhanced its position as the low cost and innovation leader in Canadian aviation in 2003 when it became the North American Blended Winglet launch operator for Boeing Next Generation 737-700 series aircraft. Today, WestJet enters the record books again as the inaugural customer for Aviation Partners Boeing's 737-600 Blended Winglet Performance Enhancement Program.

More At:
http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com
EH.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:57 pm

This little blurb from ATWonline.com ...

http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4930

ETOPS routes? Trans-Atlantic ot Trans-Pacific?
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
N1120A
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:02 pm

>ETOPS routes? Trans-Atlantic ot Trans-Pacific?<

Probably not. They probably want them to increase the abysmal efficiency of a shortened narrow-body and make sure they have year-round YUL-YVR range.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
godbless
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:56 pm

I heard that the 73G with winglets has too much lift already when empty, so it must be really hard to get the 736 on the ground once it's has winglets...
A buddy of mine, a pilot, told me how he did a position flight with Air Berlin's "Dreamliner" and it just didn't want to get onto the runway.

Max
 
WJA73G
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:37 am

According to my Father (NG Captain) the -700 is an absolute beast when it is empty.. It performs more like a rocket than an airplane and the -600 will probably be even more outstanding because it is smaller with the same engines!

WJA73G
 
N1120A
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:39 am

>it is smaller with the same engines!<

Downrated and it is almost as heavy.

>A buddy of mine, a pilot, told me how he did a position flight with Air Berlin's "Dreamliner" and it just didn't want to get onto the runway. <

That is a 738, not 73G
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Airdolomiti
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:47 am

>>>A buddy of mine, a pilot, told me how he did a position flight with Air Berlin's "Dreamliner" and it just didn't want to get onto the runway. <

>That is a 738, not 73G

Wrong, AB's Dreamliner is a 73G  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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You were probably thinking of FR's Dreamliner which is indeed a 738.


Getting back on topic, a 736 with winglets - talk about a hot rod!! Should be very interesting...

Federico
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:49 am

Hmm... I wonder if the timing of this (relatively minor) announcement is intended to partly offset the imminent (in my opinion) announcement of a fourth-quarter loss after almost 30 consecutive quarters of profitability...
Next flight.... who knows.
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:42 am

You have got to be kidding me...
EH.
 
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wjv04
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:27 am

Jean Leloup... umm or not. Even if we do post a loss, I highly doubt that Westjet would use this to offset their announcement.

Quite funny, our crew was talking about this exact topic today just before pushing the flight to San Fran. I personally dont see why the -600 would need winglets. I cant wait tell we get the 600s and 800s!!!
Any ideas on delivery dates.
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:29 am

wjv04..

-800's are to be delivered in April, May, and June (three). The first of our -600's are to be delivered in August although from the news release it sounds like it'll be in test flights for Boeing from March-July... so know knows.

I've also heard that our -600's will have the longest range of any NG in the world aside from the BBJ thanks to the increased MTOW.
EH.
 
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wjv04
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:58 am

Sweet!!!!

CanadaEh, are you finnally gonna tell me what you do, now that im a fellow WestJetter!!!
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:09 am

Well, it's not that unusual for a company to post a press release to offset something else, so I do'nt htink my suggestion was all that unreasonable. Take, for instance, Boeing's "roll-out" of one small piece of the 7E7 just five days before Airbus unveiled the A380.

Mind you, in this case, I see it was Aviation Partners that made the press release; Westjet does not have one as of yet.

For what it's worth, I love Westjet, but let's not act as though people are NOT worried about the fourth quarter results! (As well as the next couple after that.) We all know things are getting a little tougher for WS...
Next flight.... who knows.
 
lymanm
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:13 am

I thought the 736 was to open up shorter routes where capacity didn't justify the larger airplanes. If so, why make an already clumsily heavy airplane even heavier? The cost savings of the winglets are only felt on much longer stage lengths.

Granted, they would be perfect for YVR-YUL or similar.
buhh bye
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:26 am

Our company is pretty tight-lipped about strategic plans for 2005. A decision has yet to be made (or publicly announced) regarding our 737-200 fleet, and rumors abound as to where our 737-600's are going to go (YLW/YEG/YYC-HNL are just one of them). Who knows, but whatever we can do to make these things more efficient I'm all for.

Jean, a lot of people are worried about our quarterly results but I'm more focused on what my company plans on doing to make our company viable for the long-term. It isn't going to be an easy year by any means..
EH.
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:27 am

wjv04 send me an email, just click on my name and then 'contact'.
EH.
 
BO__einG
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:44 pm

A Boeing 737-600 equipped with Winglets, my goodness that would be extremely appealing to the eye. Definetly a first for Boeing to go with something like this.

Will these babies also be equipped with LiveTV like in some of the -700 Fleet?
Uncertain whether that too would be a first in the world.

I remember seeing the hybrid Delta 737-800 back in 2002 and at that time I thought about the airline having their own planes like these and winglets too. It looks like it is becoming a reality.
This is pretty nice stuff for the company.
My pick: Fourth Quarter will be a profit but will be a bit lower than average.

And I hope the classics will also remain in service for a while longer.
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N1120A
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:00 pm

>A Boeing 737-600 equipped with Winglets, my goodness that would be extremely appealing to the eye. Definetly a first for Boeing to go with something like this.<

Well, they have been flying 737s with winglets for a while now. This is the first for the -600, but that is not hard to comprehend seeing that there are only 4 airlines flying them

>Will these babies also be equipped with LiveTV like in some of the -700 Fleet?
Uncertain whether that too would be a first in the world.<

Well, B6 A320s were the first with LiveTV, but WJ's entire 737NG fleet will get LiveTV
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ha763
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:42 pm

Flying the -600 to Hawaii seems like a waste. The -700 would be better to use since it does have more range than the -600. With the -700 you would have lower operating costs and carry more pax.

With the -600 being certified for winglets, only the -900 will be left. Now, if one -900 operator would just decide to install winglets, the whole NG family would be available with winglets.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:43 pm

U kidding, right?

B737-600 w winglets, whats next! 717 w w-lets. I take this w a bucket of salt.

Lord, have mercy on my poor soul.....

Micke  Big grin
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DAYflyer
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:55 pm

Interesting. They must be trying to make this heavy beast more economical. I never saw much use for the 600 since it was too heavy.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:36 am

High time something was done to improve B736 sales.
regds
MEL
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:30 am

B737-600 w winglets, whats next! 717 w w-lets. I take this w a bucket of salt.

At least they're an effective lifting device rather than a hood ornament.
 
TransportEng
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:37 am

I'm a bit skeptical about their effectiveness. I'm an engineer although not in aeronautics so I don't know any technical info. However I remember seeing a press release a couple years ago where Westjet said that the winglets improve effeciency by "up to 4%" and later in the release said "statistically 90% accurate". At the time I thought it was strange that they relaxed the normal engineering statistical tolerance of 95% and qualified the 4% with an 'up to'. Also, small number statistics that happen to be just under 5% difference are questionable too for the same reason. I'd like to see the statistical distributions used and data and parameters (how many flights, how did they measure the fuel burn, how to control the experiment), which I know won't happen. There's always a given mean and standard deviation for a data set, and a regression analysis of fuel efficiency would have to account for dozens of factors. I'm not saying they didn't do it though, but that small number statistics are difficult in the best of cases.

It's also always struck me as a bit strange that they're only coming out with these now. See how similar the new airliners coming out are (A380 and 7E7), large scale advances are behind us (not aeronautical advances though). Think of the Concorde and SR-71. It's true, that todays technology allows us to identify those last couple of percentage points that yesterdays tech couldn't. So I'm not saying aeronautical engineers don't do anything these days, they actually more interesting jobs. Instead of working with aerodynamics and wind tunnels they work with simulation and models. In fact, they do a lot of software programming, imagine the challenge of making the software for the stealth bomber to fly like a regular airplane.

Anyway, my point in this ramble is that they probably have an effect, but it might be smaller than advertised, as a 1 to 2% efficiency difference would be hard for airliners to verify, and they might not be worth it in terms of cost/benefit. Maybe someone can provide some links that aren't just press releases. But they look cool, and are advertised to save fuel, so why not?
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:10 am

Thinking back to when we first installed winglets, we only had it on one aircraft for a period of 30, 60, or 90 days (can't remember). That aircraft was the "tester" and it was determined that on transcon (YVR/YYC/YEG-YYZ/YUL/YOW) we saved up to 7% fuel burn. Obviously the savings were lower the shorter the distance.

FYI, All of Westjet's 737's (-600/-700/-800) will be equipped with LiveTV and winglets. 118 seats on -600, 136 seats on -700, and 164 seats on -800.

Flying the -600 to Hawaii seems like a waste.

Not really.The market from YVR-HNL is very saturated with Air Canada (2x daily, 340/767), Harmony (10x weekly, 757), Aloha (1x daily, 73G) and Air Pacific (2x weekly, 738). I believe that Westjet's plan is to launch service from cities which don't have direct service - YYC, YEG, YLW, etc. I could be entirely wrong, though.
EH.
 
ha763
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:23 am

Not really.The market from YVR-HNL is very saturated with Air Canada (2x daily, 340/767), Harmony (10x weekly, 757), Aloha (1x daily, 73G) and Air Pacific (2x weekly, 738). I believe that Westjet's plan is to launch service from cities which don't have direct service - YYC, YEG, YLW, etc. I could be entirely wrong, though.

You need to also read the next 2 sentences. Like I said, the -700 has more range and lower operating costs. The -600 weighs nearly as much as the -700 and in Westjet's configuration of 118 pax will need a minimum of 3 FAs exactly the same number of FAs needed for the 136 pax on the -700.

Also, AC only has 1 flight YVR-HNL on a 767-200, AC43. AC33 stops in HNL on the way to SYD, but is only a tech stop and does not offload nor load any pax. AQ is also ending YVR service in April.
 
ramprat
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:16 am

HA,
I think you forgot about AC 45, a daily 763, in addition to AC43.
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet To Launch 737-600 W/winglets

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:42 am

I don't want to debate the merits of a hypothetical launch of a route, but we'd need 4 FA's for 136 seats vs. only 3 for 118 seats. However, if we launched HNL service, I can almost guarantee that we'd have 4 FA's, we usually have that amount on our 125 seat 737-200's anyway.
EH.