alexinwa
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NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:52 am

Anyone have any idea how NW is doing out of PDX these days? I would really like to know how the NRT and HNL flights are doing?

I seem to see a lot of routings on NWA.COM taking you to PDX to get to NRT and HNL.

Wasn't NW going to add more flights to DTW and MSP as well??
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:17 am

The PDX operation is doing very well. Starting this summer, NW is probably initiate year-round DTW-PDX. The PDX-NRT is also doing well. I'm standing by my claim that we're going to announce PDX-AMS in March. It was from a very reliable source, and also that MSP-CDG will also commence this summer.
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iowa744fan
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:51 am

Jetjack,

DTW-PDX flights aren't yearround? Really. That seems quite surprising.
 
iowa744fan
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:53 am

and now that I look it up on their website, no Memphis service either? I am surprised that they would not offer more domestic feed for the NRT service or at least have more service to their hubs if they are also operating flights to HNL and NRT.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:13 am

DTW-PDX flights aren't yearround? Really
Nope, just peak seasons and holiday periods.
That seems quite surprising
Tell me about it. We have been so blind about about Portland. PDX has always been a strong market and pretty much sat unused since DL pulled out. With the NRT and HNL flights up and running, we should be expanding and fast. I mean we'd be stupid not to. If the PDX-HNL route turns out to be as good as we hoped, then that will force us to to have year-round service to and from PDX from DTW and MEM. The departure time will probably be moved up so it can connect with in and outbound flights. This airline is so stupid sometimes. Maybe we're now just waking up. Angry
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burnsie28
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:15 am

MEM service was discountinued a while ago, wouldnt be surprised to see it come back.
 
flashmeister
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:21 am

I'd think that NW would want DTW to go year round before MEM would come online.

While I'd be excited to see PDX-AMS, I'm still skeptical. I'm sure if it is announced, we'll see Gov. Teddyboy doing cartwheels on the taxiway and taking credit for the whole damned thing, though.
 
NWAskyteam
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:49 am

During which schedule change does DTW-PDX nonstop end? I thought there was at least one daily year round now... I know it has increased to two in past summers...
 
aa777jr
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:57 am

Is PDX gonna make a hub for NW?

A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:06 am

nope...wouldn't be a hub for NW...if at all just a focus city...but even then thats not likely. honestly right now its just another international gateway to get you to Asia from the US...just like SEA, SFO, LAX, et al.

~B6FA4ever
 
centrair
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:21 pm

Back when DL flew PDX-NGO, how were the loads?

Wasn't SEA a NW hub before their merger with Republic? I think I remember NW stating they wanted to increase at PDX after DL pulled out. But it seems they have diverted expansion to IND and MKE. So what happened?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
HNL
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:31 pm

I suspect you'd see flights to PDX from MEM be a tag to a SEA flight, or go MEM-SEA-PDX-MEM before a dedicated MEM flight was added back to PDX. Perhaps as a redeye. . .
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
TLHFLA
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:50 pm

Maybe a MEM-PDX-NRT flight would work. While MEM-PDX alone would certainly not fill an A330, a direct MEM-PDX-NRT routing could allow NW to connect passengers from the MEM hub to the NRT hub in lieu of a nonstop flight. PDX would also gain a connection to MEM and connection opportunities in the southeast...
Bill in ATL
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:07 pm

Being a Worldperks member who will most likely be moving to Nashville this summer, MEM is by far the most convienient westward connection point. SAN, PDX, ELP, SNA/LGB/ONT are probably the biggest route holes at this time. PDX service to MEM would certainly be welcome. An MSP connection from BNA is not bad, but from destinations further south and east is a bit inconvenient. The good thing is that I could use CO through IAH and still get WorlPerks miles.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
pdxtriple7
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:41 pm

If PDX could land AMS that would be very exciting, although I'd rather see a UK flight...but any new flights are great news for PDX. Since Delta seems to have scaled back, we don't get anymore of their widebody's...besides the one to CVG (?). MEM would be very convienient for those in the Oregon area when connecting to the southeast. A while ago, I asked how the loads on the NRT flight were, and someone said they are mostly going out full. Any news on how HNL is doing?
 
N1120A
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:49 pm

>I would really like to know how the NRT and HNL flights are doing?<

Well, the NRT flights are almost as well subsidized as AA's RDU-LGW flights so there is no reason to think they are going anywhere on that route anytime soon.

>If PDX could land AMS that would be very exciting, although I'd rather see a UK flight...<

And yet AMS would work much, much better for NW. You would more likely see BA flying to London than NW
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kwbl
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:29 pm

The PDX-NRT flights are not really subsidized. NW is not receiving cash for the route. They have a guarantee from local businesses that have pledged to use the flight and some incentives (limited or zero landing fees for example). PDX will probably never see LHR service on BA because of Bermuda 2. Also, I think the DTW flight is now year-round
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:55 pm

Personally I think you guys are lucky to have a single flight to Europe, much less two. IIRC, LH was at one point down to 2x a week to FRA? I assume that the cargo loads on LH are the main reason why the flight is sticking around...

Someone on this board awhile back said that the NRT flight has been doing really well if that helps.......
 
kwbl
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:52 pm

Lambertman:

LH is down to 3x per week for the winter-the loads are at 80% so it is doing OK and yes, the cargo does very well. LH goes back to daily starting Feb 28 and we are very lucky to have LH and MX (which is starting to do pretty well). I would be surprised if NW does PDX-AMS and would be more surprised if LH and NW could both co-exist. I think it would require every Europe bound PAX out of PDX to use those flights instead of connecting at SEA, ORD, CVG, DTW etc..FWIW, I am surprised STL has not been able to put a package together and get a flight to Europe
 
S12PPL
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:32 pm

Ahhhh, it wouldn't be the "Will PDX see more international service" thread without the usual PDX bashers Smile Thanks for showing up tonight, LambertMan.

PDX is a market that would do very well if airlines filtered in traffic on top of it's usual sales to international destinations. Delta did it, And now Northwest is. The problem Lufthansa is having, is that they get little or no feed for they're FRA flights. NW at least gets feed from MSP and DTW for the NRT run. As much as I'd love to see British fly to LHR out of PDX, it's not going to happen for a while. I think once VirginAmerica starts up...Virgin Atlantic could make a PDX flight work. They could feed people into PDX, and then put them on a Virgin A340 to LHR. Just a crazy thought, let the bashers tell me how dumb it is now Smile

As for NW expansion out of PDX, I think it'd be great to see mor NW planes here! A MEM flight would be great, as it would feed more traffic through for the Asia flight, and the HNL run. It's nice they are competing with HA on that route. It's about time someone challenged them here. The problem with PDX and more expansion West, is that SEA, SFO, and LAX all have NW service to Asia, making it hard to justify big expansion at PDX.
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AeroWesty
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RE: NW And PDX

Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:56 pm

To clarify a bit on the PDX-DTW nonstops.

Yes, NW does fly the route nonstop year round, but not daily. For example, flight 814 operates only Monday through Friday at the moment. The second flight added in May also isn't daily.

(You may verify the above fairly easily by attempting to book a nonstop on NW between PDX-DTW for various days of the week on the booking engine of your choice.)

Cheers.  Smile
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flashmeister
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:29 am

Regarding the LH flight: isn't it a UA codeshare also?

UA has plenty of PDX service:
7x to SFO
6x to SEA
5x to ORD and DEN
3x to LAX
1x to IAD
Commuter service to MFR, RDM, EUG

Properly planned, I'd think that LH/UA could get plenty of feed for the PDX-FRA flight with that sort of schedule. NW has the advantage with AMS and potentially NRT of having DL flights to SLC/CVG/ATL, CO flights to IAH, and AS/QX flights all over the place... but surely with a schedule like this and local traffic, LH should be able to do alright on FRA...
 
alexinwa
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:38 am

PDX-AMS???

Interesting. Wonder how that would effect SEA-AMS?

It would be nice to see

SEA-NRT 330
SEA-AMS 330
PDX-NRT 330
PDX-AMS 330

I still think NW should bring back SEA-KIX. The 330 would be a great fit.
You mad Bro???
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:40 am

FWIW, I am surprised STL has not been able to put a package together and get a flight to Europe
Have you been to STL lately?

The problem with PDX and more expansion West, is that SEA, SFO, and LAX all have NW service to Asia, making it hard to justify big expansion at PDX.
Why's that? PDX being an under-utilised market. If SFO, and the other gateways becomes to competitive, than PDX would be a likely suiter for expansion and NW could find a more lucretive market. Landing slots at SFO and LAX are scarce.
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TWFirst
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:48 am

I would imagine most of the feed for the PDX-NRT flight comes from Alaska and Horizon (and perhaps DL from SLC), not DTW and MSP, as DTW and MSP have non-stop service to NRT. A MEM-PDX flight would most likely provide feed though, IMO.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:50 am

Landing slots at SFO and LAX are scarce.

How long have SFO and LAX been slot controlled? That's the first I've heard of that.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:56 am

There are exactly TWO airports of any significant consequence that are slot controlled in the United States, namely New York-LaGuardia and Washington-National. Believe it or not, right now, San Francisco will have ample space available once Terminal 2 is finished, and additionally, the largest carrier at the airport, United, has less than 250 daily flights. Certainly, the airport could accept more capacity, at least when flow controls aren't in place.
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ramprat74
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:59 am

Don't forget about SNA and LGB.  Big grin
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:09 am

Flashmeister-

Regarding the LH flight: isn't it a UA codeshare also?

UA has plenty of PDX service:
7x to SFO
6x to SEA
5x to ORD and DEN
3x to LAX
1x to IAD
Commuter service to MFR, RDM, EUG


Those feeds you gave are really invalid.
SFO- Already has 2-3 daily flights to FRA
SEA- Yes some feed
ORD- Already have flights to FRA wouldnt make sense to go way out west to go east
DEN- Already has a LF flight, and it would make more sense to go to ORD, IAD, or just about any other airport out east that either UA or LF serve to FRA
LAX- Already has a couple daily FRA flights
IAD- Again, to far west to go east and a couple flights to FRA.

MFR/RDM/EUG- not enough traffic.
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:28 am

I'm a PDX basher? I'm flattered even though I don't know what I've necessarily said in the past to put me in that category. Frankly, I like to see airports similar in size to St. Louis prospering, it gives me hope....

St. Louis has better things to worry about (schools, urban decay, poverty, crime, on and on...)than putting a package together to entice an airline to come here. If the market is there, an airline will come on its own.

And FWIW, I think PDX got LH over us. Lufthansa's officials were on the news one night at 6 discussing possible new service....
 
flashmeister
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:06 am

Those feeds you gave are really invalid.

No, they're not. I listed schedules. The point that S12 tried to make earlier was that DL and now NW are at least partially supporting their flights with other service in the market. Of course feed from MFR, RDM, and EUG is going to be too small to support FRA. The point I was trying to make is that LH isn't exactly going it completely alone in PDX, which is how it was positioned in the thread earlier.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:50 am

How long have SFO and LAX been slot controlled? That's the first I've heard of that.
Most major airports have slot controls on them. With amount delays due to traffic density, LAX and SFO do have slot restrictions for the peak times during the day and night pushes. Doesn't mean that overall slots are scarce, but during the hours that are the most lucretive, they very well are.
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AeroWesty
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:05 am

With amount delays due to traffic density, LAX and SFO do have slot restrictions for the peak times during the day and night pushes

Not to pick at nits, but aren't you confusing voluntary flow controls with the traditional meaning of "slots" that an airline applies for to operate specific services at specific times?
International Homo of Mystery
 
nsfguy
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:05 am

Flew on a new (N853US) 330 business class PDX-NRT in Oct. What a soul less and totally boring plane this sucker was! Love NWA and understand my beloved 747 is getting old like me, but sweet Jesus! What a slug this thing is. Whoever the color coward is that decorates the insides of these planes is, needs to understand it's nice to have some deep dark tones to make the flight feel homey and comfortable.
 
stirling
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:26 am

How about PDX to Indianapolis or Milwaukee?

Lufthansa flying San Francisco-Frankfurt nonstop, doesn't mean they automatically garner 100% of the market.
For Example:
I'm OnePass. If there was a KLM PDX-AMS flight, I would surely use AS for SFO-PDX then connect to the KLM Flight just for the miles. A little connection wouldn't be bad. I would imagine other scenarios could apply as well.

I'd think BA PDX-LGW is way way on down the road.

It's funny, I know a few guys from STL, they all hate Portland. That's funny!
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Leneld
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:51 am

I'm not sure of what NWA plans are for PDX, but I would love to see them beef up thier presense here.
PDX-AMS
PDX-MEM
PDX-JFK
PDX-DTW daily year round
These route would work well for Portland.....
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:57 am

I'm OnePass. If there was a KLM PDX-AMS flight, I would surely use AS for SFO-PDX then connect to the KLM Flight just for the miles. A little connection wouldn't be bad. I would imagine other scenarios could apply as well.


Or you can fly NW/KLM on SFO-AMS. And, yes, many people do go out of the way to get more miles, but if that was the case, they would likely go more out of the way than a short hop on SFO-PDX.
a.
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:26 pm

You guys are quick to judge, aren't you?

PDX-IND/MKE won't happen, IND-SFO would happen before either of those would. Ok call me a hater again, I deserve it after a rational post. Big grin
 
Carfield
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:40 pm

I am glad that NWA is doing well with PDX. PDX has a large Asian population and the NRT route makes much sense.

And am I correct in assuming that the INS at PDX is not causing any more troubles? I recalled that Delta got really upset when the INS at PDX was being too strict or unnecessarily rude, and causes all kinds of problems with DL and driving passengers away from using PDX as a hub.

Glad that PDX-AMS is coming online, but wonder if it will be an Airbus A330-200 or -300 flight...

Carfield
 
S12PPL
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:41 pm

Then INS at PDX was a huge problem when DL still operated it's Asia gateway out of PDX. I don't wanna say I remember the details perfect...but I seem to recal a woman being strip searched without cause...For some reason that sounds familliar. The INS situation at PDX has supposidly gotten much better since then. I guess time will tell.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
stirling
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RE: NW And PDX

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:26 pm

I should have used SMF as an example, as it is equal distance, at least for me, to there or SFO, can use either, but preference leans towards the ease of SMF or OAK.
I grew up in Portland, so I would do this more just to support my hometown than for any other reason, so I'm not a very good test subject.
Delete this User
 
nsfguy
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:30 am

INS was so bad at Portland a few years ago, It was nicknamed "De-Portland" many incoming pax got refused entry on hair splitting issues, and the word got out.... swamp SFO or LAX and as a result few Asian pax took the PDX route.
 
tommy767
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:33 am

I remember DL having a rather large operation at PDX for a while in the late 90s. I think they operated PDX-NRT, however I am not quite sure why they drew back from this market in the first place.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
F9HNLPLZ
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:41 am

How are the loads on the PDX-HNL route? Is that on the 757-300? How is that service?
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:53 am

That HNL flight is doing well not so great

Today: it only went out with 59 people

Tomorrow: only has 44 booked

Monday is a little better: 54% in coach 25% in FC

Tuesday: about 35% booked

Wednesday: about 30% booked

Thursday: about 60% booked

Friday: about 20% booked

Saturday: 47% booked

so as you can see right now its not doing so hot.

Now SEA on the other hand is completely different, averaging 90% full on the DC-10 for those days.

As for SEA-OGG those are averaging 98% booked with a 753 for the same days.

the PDX-NRT flights for those days are:
That flight is currently averaging about 70% booked for those days.

[Edited 2005-01-29 19:07:30]
 
pdxtriple7
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:04 am

I am disappointed to see the PDX-HNL flight doing poorly in its early stages. I'm somewhat surprised it is doing that poorly compared to SEA. Does anyone know how the HA flights are doing?
 
SuperDash
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:48 am

It's OK LambertMan....I live in PDX and I am also classed as a basher and a Seattle lover. And Seattle has a dump for an airport. Oh well, so much for being a realist.

So this one goes out to Leneld...
PDX-Amsterdam - Service to Saint Happenin maybe, but not Amsterdam.
In case you haven't noticed, NWA is a wildly profitable airline. They have tons of money to sink into secondary international markets instead of international out of the big hubs.
PDX-Indy/Mickey - My Seattle doesn't have it so neither will Portland until Seattle does comment applies here.
PDX-Honolulu - Looks like the early returns are - a-NO-ha. Looks like 2 carriers is too big for the market year round. If Hawaiian drops it, then NW will have a chance. Can you hear the red ink flowing?
PDX-Memphis- Knowing NW...Probably a 44 seat RJ.
PDX-Detroit - the only one that should be year round daily and it usually has been.

For our boy Burnsie28 - Lufthansa can only be getting a couple flow passengers from SkyWest at Redmond, Medford, Eugene and maybe Seattle. United passengers from Denver and Chicago are not going to fly to PDX to get on Lufthansa. On the busy days 2 people looking for a cheap seat to FRA may find their way up to PDX from LA or SF. So that's enough flow to fill up a row. Lufthansa's flow is all at Frankfurt.

 
MAH4546
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:13 am

I am disappointed to see the PDX-HNL flight doing poorly in its early stages. I'm somewhat surprised it is doing that poorly compared to SEA.

Why? Northwest has flown SEA-HNL for years and years and years now.
a.
 
DTWINTLFLYER
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:15 am

Don't forget, although loads may not be very good right now, not many people travel on trips to the islands at the end of January. Give it time, we'll see if #87 gets better. I think it will.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW And PDX

Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:43 am

For our boy Burnsie28 - Lufthansa can only be getting a couple flow passengers from SkyWest at Redmond, Medford, Eugene and maybe Seattle. United passengers from Denver and Chicago are not going to fly to PDX to get on Lufthansa. On the busy days 2 people looking for a cheap seat to FRA may find their way up to PDX from LA or SF. So that's enough flow to fill up a row. Lufthansa's flow is all at Frankfurt.

Guess I am missing what your saying, I said that, or are you just agreeing with me or adding a little more detail??????