DCA-ROCguy
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Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:50 am

Dear Gang,

I am doing a small aerial drawing of ALB and would like your help. I am drawing the terminal in about its 1979 appearance, with the new Allegheny extension built. I want to include a Braniff aircraft in the picture, and have questions that our crowd should be able to answer.

What exact months did Braniff serve ALB? What gate did they use?
Did they serve ALB after the completion of the 1979 extension?
American and Allegheny served ALB during 1979. Who else served ALB at that point--were Eastern or United there yet? If so, what gates did they use? Were any commuter carriers there at the time?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Sincerely,
Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Smalbany
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:06 am

1979 was a little before I really paid attention to the details at the airport. I do remember seeing Braniff at the new (then) terminal expansion. I recall seeing them at what is now A4 or A5. I know for sure that AA served ALB in 1979. I'm not sure when Eastern or United came in.

Good Luck!

Dan
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:58 am

Thanks, Dan. Eastern entered ROC in 1979, and was in Syracuse before that. United was in Rochester since the Capital purchase in 1960, but not in Syracuse til after deregulation. A 1975 diagram of ALB's 1962 terminal I have shows only Allegheny and American. I've seen an early-80's photo of ALB with at United 727 at the early '60's terminal, but I don't know exactly when they entered the ALB market.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
717-200
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:01 am

Speaking of ALB, I remember as a child going to the open air observation
deck on top of the 1962 terminal in the early 1980's to see my father off
on a business trip. I remember almost getting blown away from the jet blast
from a UA 727-100 as it was powering out from its gate. I also remember
those Command Airlines SD-330's how funny they looked with that boxy
shape. Does anyone know what routes those 330's flew out of ALB in the
early 80's?
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:40 am

Amazingly, the database does not show a photo of Command Airlines! By 1980 Rochester had Air North, which also flew Shorts 330's. Yes, they were funny looking. Did Pilgrim or Ransome maybe serve Albany in 1979?

I visited ALB in 1991 and walked out on that observation deck. The view was great, almost the entire airfield. Rochester had a similar deck that they closed in 1969.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
NYCAAer
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:17 am

United didn't serve ALB until 1982, with 2 or 3 daily flights on on 727-100s and 737-200s. Command Airways flew to LGA, JFK, and Poughkeepsie from ALB.

In 1979, AA had 4 daily flights to ORD with 727-200s and -100s. EA was flying out of ALB to ATL and JFK with 727-200s. AL was the big player back then, with its DC-9-30s, BAC 1-11s, and an occasional 727-100, with flights to PIT, PHL, DCA, BWI, BUF, ISP, BOS, ROC, and LGA. You would still see AL jets in the old livery with the blue stripe as well as the triple-red livery with the white top. Bare metal came in 1981 or so for USAir.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 am

amazing when yu compare it to today's ALB service...basically non-existent
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
NYCAAer
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:21 am

Isn't that the truth? Mostly WN and RJs. WN has taken over as the dominant carrier at ALB, and AA has been replaced by Eagle RJs, US has downsized drastically. DL still has mainline service to CVG and ATL, and NW mainline to DTW. But NW's service to MSP and some of UA's service to ORD is also flown by RJs.
 
stirling
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:53 am

Eastern Air Lines has been in Albany since at least 1958. 17 daily nonstop flights:

Burlington, VT 1X/Martin 404
Glen's Falls, NY 4X/Martin 404
NYC LaGuardia, NY 9X/Martin 404
NYC Idlewild NY 1X/Martin 404
Plattsburgh, NY 1X/Martin 404
Saranac Lake, NY 1X/Martin 404

Almost every flight continued on for someplace else, as was the nature of the largely linear manner in which the Eastern Air Lines route system was operated. (An example from below, STL, was 8-stops away and over 8 hours swinging through the Ohio Valley)
The flights above continued on for the following destinations:

Burlington, VT
Charleston, WV
Lexington, KY
Louisville, KY
Malone, NY
Masseena, NY
Montreal, PQ
Philadelphia, PA
Plattsburgh, NY
Richmond, VA
Rutland, VT
Saranac Lake, NY
St Louis, MO
Washington DC National

Some cities might be in both lists as they were served by a combination of non-stop and direct flights.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:16 am

Thanks everyone all for the info...now I know to put an EA 727 and not a UA 727 in the picture! Did EA use the old Allegheny gates in the main concourse?

Eastern did leave ALB for a time from the late '60's into the '70s. The 1975 diagram I have from the county master plan printed that year, posted at http://oldterminals.topcities.com/albany.html,
shows only American and Allegheny. According to the website, Eastern and TWA asked the CAB persmission in 1966 to end Albany service, and their routes were given to Allegheny in 1968.

BTW there is a picture of Command Airways in the database, but the airline is not listed under its own name. And I found the picture by searching....ALB. Mea dumma.

ALB may be RJ heaven now like the other Upstate airports, but they still have a decent amount of mainline metal. Southwest, US Airways, Delta, United, and Northwest all fly mainline a/c.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
timz
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:10 am

Braniff's 10/78 timetable doesn't show Albany, the 8/79 does.

Looks like UA appeared in 1983; I'll check on Eastern.
 
timz
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:44 am

EA returned to ALB in 1978.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:23 pm

The picture is coming along pretty well...I've got the outlines almost completely sketched out. I put an Allegheny DC-9 at gate 3, figuring that was still AL territory until other carriers came in. I put Eastern at Gate 6, where the 1986 service guide shows them. I have Braniff at 1A, Allegheny at 1. American at 5 and Allegheny Commuter to the east of 1. I put Command at 8. Suggestions still welcome!

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
NYCAAer
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:59 am

Actually, AA had gate 6 for years, at the end of of the concourse. I remember going out of gate 6 all the time, from the late '60s (as a kid on AA BAC 1-11s and 727-100s) to the late '80s, when I started flying as an AA F/A.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Help: ALB Air Service 1979-1981, For Drawing

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:17 am

AA used to use the old gate 5 and 6. often you'ld see two MD's parked at the end...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.