sonic67
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Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:18 pm

Is it a possibility that Southwest would expand its fleet and order the 787 because of its efficiency? I know that their business modal is based around the 737 AC but given their success would they maybe consider other AC such the 787?

Your thoughts  Big thumbs up

Sonic

[Edited 2005-02-01 07:38:41]

[Edited 2005-02-01 07:39:52]
 
Thrust
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RE: Southwest Orders 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:32 pm

Anybody who believes that WN is going to buy the 787 truly needs to stop and look at the big picture. WN WILL NOT ORDER ANYTHING EXCEPT The 737NGs!!! Their method of having one big 737 family for a fleet has served them well the whole time they have been alive. They are one of the most prominent airlines in the world healthwise and financially. Why on earth destroy a tradition that has served them so well? IMO, the 787 is FAR too big for any of WN's routes.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
sonic67
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:50 pm


Ok I get it!

Eventually they will have to change their AC when the 737NG is replaced by something more efficient.

 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:01 pm

Yes, that may be true. But the 737 and 787 markets are completely different. When the time comes, they will replace the 737 with the newest generation aircraft designed to serve that type or market.

[Edited 2005-02-01 08:06:35]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Thrust
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:04 pm

Eventually, yes, I agree, Silver1SWA, WN will have to replace the 737NGs. But it is clear that an airplane like the 787 for WN is out of the question.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:10 pm

 Yeah sure.....right!

What would ever make you think/say something like that?

They got over (80) 737NG on order still, this clearly shows that this is there workhorse and what makes them profitable for 30+ yrs. The 787 is like a SEMI for WN, way to BIG & COSTLY of an a/c for there routes.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/displaystandardreport.cfm?optReportType=Customer&cboCustomer=SWA&cboCountry=&cboRegion=&ViewReportF=View+Report

I totally 100% agree with Thrust.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:17 pm

Exactly. While a replacement may some day be necessary, we are talking about something that would happen a loooooooooong time from now. As mentioned, WN still has 737NGs on the way and if these things prove as reliable as the 737 classics, WN should see a good 20-30 years of enjoyment from these aircraft.

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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American 767
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:21 pm

No I don't think Southwest will ever order the 787, I don't see them buying a widebody aircraft. Yes, you are correct about them continuing with the 737-700 in the future. However, the only other aircraft they may order is the Embraer 190. Believe it or not, Southwest has been looking at it for future route expansion.

Ben Soriano
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lovefieldflyer
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:55 pm

They got over (80) 737NG on order still

The 4th quarter earnings report indicates that there are now 91 firm orders plus options for 259 extending through the year 2012.
 
contrails
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:22 pm

I can't see WN ordering anything but 737s for the forseeable future. But, if they ever start flying from the west coast to HNL they just might get some 757s. But not widebodies, it's not in their character.

I know, the west coast-HNL service is just a dream. But it's a nice one.

Flying Colors Forever!
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:38 pm

Why would they get the 757's? 737-700's and 800's can fly the route. Just look at Aloha's fleet and flights from the West Coast.

Safe Flying  Smile
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drerx7
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:10 pm

Probably not in our lifetimes. Besides all of the obvious reasons--the 787 will not be able to operate out of some of WN's key airports--MDW/HOU come to mind.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:37 pm

The 737 that they use has more than sufficient efficiencies and range to do what they want it to do. They will not order the 787 at all; too big for them.
They will order (eventually) the 737 replacement, which will undoubtedly be based on the 787 technology, perhaps even as much composites as the 787.
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travellin'man
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:39 pm

In the few years that I have belonged to this forum, there has been the occasional interesting post from someone or other claiming (on the basis of some sort of insider knowledge) that Southwest has looked at other aircraft types, even the 777, if you can believe that!

What is worth saying here instead of just 'No', or even being censorious towards such an open question, is that SO FAR Southwest is saying no to other aircraft types. This is because their mission has not changed. They continue to stay focused on what they do so well: short to mid range point to point flying with quick turnaround times, for which the 737 is ideal. They see no reason to try to be all things to all people, to offer every kind of service available. Now, I do not have access to any sort of special information, nor am I in a position to verify what these posters were saying; however it seems perfectly plausible to me that the airline may someday expand their mission to include longer range international flying. A viable international LCC is one of the next great steps wiaiting to be made in the airline business, and an aircraft like the 787 would be a great way to do that.

Even if it remains pure speculation, considering the what if's is far more interesting than just reiterating the status quo.
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777STL
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:00 am

"I can't see WN ordering anything but 737s for the forseeable future. But, if they ever start flying from the west coast to HNL they just might get some 757s. But not widebodies, it's not in their character.

I know, the west coast-HNL service is just a dream. But it's a nice one."

Yep, if WN stays profitable indefinitely like they have for the past thirty years, they could single handedly keep the 737NG line open indefinitely. WN still has some older -300s and -500s that could eventually be replaced by NGs as well. I don't think there is any current design out there right now that WN would consider to replace the 737s.

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Boeing7E7
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:09 am

Is it a possibility that Southwest would expand its fleet and order the 787 because of its efficiency?

Yes, with the 140 pax 3+3 variant.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:16 am

Southwest wouldn't need 757s to fly to Hawaii--their 73Gs can make the hop now--the fleet isn't ETOPS certified though.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
transPac
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:07 am

I also doubt we'll ever a WN 787. However, I am intrigued by the possibilities the 787-3 holds for US domestic carriers. Seems an airline like AS could put them to good use at some point.
 
airgeek12
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:11 am

Is that a joke? :p.. but heck no! :p.. they're staying with (mainly) 737s; 737NGs I think.

geek
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:55 am

Reply #16.

It is a heck of alot cheaper to get ETOPS certified then it is to introduce an entirely new aircraft into the fleet. Ones on order could be converted before delivery.

Safe Flying  Smile
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A350
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:02 am

Remember that one important reason for the success of the LCCs is that the 737NGs and A32xs are virtually as efficient on short hops as the widebodies, so it was easy to operate quite small planes and simplyfied fleets.

I can well imagine that the 783 (and maybe an A300 successor) will change the game and allow the legacies to match or overtake the LCCs efficiency and/or pressure the LCCs to give up the extreme fleet simplicity. Interesting times will come next decade!

A350
 
N1120A
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:31 am

>IMO, the 787 is FAR too big for any of WN's routes.<

Well, no, not really. There are several routes that could take a 787 but they prefer frequency and commonality.

>I can well imagine that the 783 (and maybe an A300 successor) will change the game and allow the legacies to match or overtake the LCCs efficiency and/or pressure the LCCs to give up the extreme fleet simplicity.<

They can already obliterate the LCC's seat-mile with a 744 if they want. There is a question of being able to fill the plane for that to matter.

>the fleet isn't ETOPS certified though.<

They don't even have overwater gear
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AussieItaliano
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:33 am

WN still has many markets to fill with low-cost, high frequency service within the continental US. Because of this, I don't think that they'll even consider anything other than the 73G while there is still more of the US market for them to expand into.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:42 am

Anybody who believes that WN is going to buy the 787 truly needs to stop and look at the big picture

OK lookin at the big picture as you suggested... I see an airline who never confines themselves to a certain method and always looks for new markets and niches. WN is not the airline to pass absolute statements about...

heir method of having one big 737 family for a fleet has served them well the whole time they have been alive.

They don't have one big 737 family

IMO, the 787 is FAR too big for any of WN's routes.

What makes you think WN would fly it? Is a wholly or partially owned partner flying international routes with the 787 absurd, of course not. Heck, the TZ codeshare could evolve into this as TZ was hoping to begin international routes pre-Ch.11 filing. WN has one of the largest domestic networks to funnel passengers into as well...

However, the only other aircraft they may order is the Embraer 190.

WN will probably add larger aircraft before they add smaller aircraft. The most likely canidate being the 738, which any 73G order can be converted to without difficulty

WN should see a good 20-30 years of enjoyment from these aircraft.

Probably not... WN flies the hell out of their airplanes, the first 733 are fully depricated and have retirement in sight. WN flies a demanding schedule that wears an airframe down more rapidly than say... AA.

IMO, the 787 is FAR too big for any of WN's routes.

I agree and I doubt that WN would order the 787 anytime soon, but I will most definitly not rule out the possibility completly. 787 probably won't fly in WN colors, but carrying WN passengers is very possible...
 
elwood64151
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:21 am

Travellin'man:

You beat me to it!

WN will probably add larger aircraft before they add smaller aircraft. The most likely canidate being the 738, which any 73G order can be converted to without difficulty

You're assuming that they'll go international before they fill in the US. If they decide to operate to say ICT, BMI, MLI, COS, or other mid-size cities with comparatively low O&D, a smaller aircraft such as the E-190 or whatever Bombardier has up its sleeve could be just as likely as any larger aircraft.

Probably not... WN flies the hell out of their airplanes, the first 733 are fully depricated and have retirement in sight. WN flies a demanding schedule that wears an airframe down more rapidly than say... AA.

Let's see... The 733s were introduced in... When? The early 1980s?! You must be kidding!

I don't think WN operates the only the 737 just to keep their fleet simple. As long as they add enough aircraft, another fleet type wouldn't be that bad. After all, the 733 and 73G aren't entirely the same aircraft, and do require additional maintenance logistics. So adding a 787 for intercontinental travel (if they chose to do it) wouldn't be too out-of-line for WN, so long as they ordered enough of them to justify the additional MX expense.

FL recently did this by adding the 73G to its fleet, since it needed a longer-range aircraft compared to its 717s. It could have kept the 717s and expanded a midwestern hub to do the same thing. FL chose the additional fleet type. WN so far has chosen decentralized operations.

Just my thoughts.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
N1120A
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:27 am

>Probably not... WN flies the hell out of their airplanes, the first 733 are fully depricated and have retirement in sight. WN flies a demanding schedule that wears an airframe down more rapidly than say... AA.<

Well, considering that WN is actually looking to buy used 733s from wherever they can find ones in decent shape and canceled a deal to send some of their older 733s to FX, I don't think they will be retiring them any time soon
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:37 am

Let's see... The 733s were introduced in... When? The early 1980s?! You must be kidding!

Not at all... before 2010 (maybe even 2008) the first 733 will be gone...

Well, considering that WN is actually looking to buy used 733s from wherever they can find ones in decent shape

Though any 733 as old as WN's oldest are out of the question...

and canceled a deal to send some of their older 733s to FX

Becuase doing so would cut much needed capacity... hell look at the IAH station close, they don't want to waste aircraft and resources and are now concentrating on HOU alone. Ditto for FX... WN need's the airplanes, but when they begin to max-out, 73G will take their place.

[Edited 2005-02-02 00:39:51]
 
cloudy
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:53 pm

7e7 for Southwest itself is not likely. The ATA codeshare experiment is interesting , however. In the long term, Southwest may look to ATA to do the kind of flying that does not fit its business model. It is possible that Southwest could help ATA get 7e7's and/or a 100 seater through some financing deal. The only new type Southwest may get itself would be the 737-800 or 900 and even that is a bit of a longshot.

A lot of Southwest's long range plans may depend on how Boeing replaces the 737 series. There may be a long-range/short range split in the new lineup like there is with the 7E7. In this case, Southwest may be able to cover all their needs with only one new type even if the 737 is replaced.
 
tcfc424
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RE: Would Southwest Consider The 787

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:25 pm

As I mentioned earlier on the new "startup Int'l LCC" this may be an area where WN is looking. I don't believe we will see it any time soon, but WN is not limited to what they have done for so long, the TZ deal has kind of solidified that into fact. I don't think that it will happen soon, but at some point, two things will occur. 1) WN will see that their customers not only desire, but demand international travel opportunities. WN is a solid airline, and believe it or not, there are people who LUV to fly them and would fly them over any of the legacies in a heartbeat. This represents a huge change in their culture, but it is not an unmanageable prospect. 2) At some point, the domestic expansion will stagnate and WN will either be faced with 0 growth or expansion into untapped markets.

If anyone here feels that WN is only looking at the 737NG (as awesome as it is) and only looking at domestic routes (as profitable as they have been), you are sadly mistaken. WN is a business, and as such they are required to look at all avenues of growth and revenue. This may come from additional fleet types or expanded route structure, but at some point, the people in the glass office face the board of directors and have to answer questions about expansion and revenue. WN is not short-sighted enough to simply discard the idea of an additional fleet type or international routes.

As it is now, there is no need for WN to add a fleet type or grow internationally, they have all the growth they can handle in the domestic US market. Things change though and if you feel WN is not poised for those changes, you are a fool. Sure, we won't see a 787 in WN colors anytime soon, but to simply say it is out of the question in the long run in a short-sighted view with very little business intuition.

WN is looking at what they need/want now. That is domestic expansion and the fleet type that has served them well and made them profitable...the 737. WN is also looking at what they need/want for the future. What that enatails is still hidden in the board room discussions and water cooler camps. The truth is, save for a very few individuals here, we are spectators not entitled to the full scale and scope of airlines' business practices. We are simply a group that shares an interest in aviation and enjoys (some of us) the thought of surmising an airline's next move. Speculation on this board is amazing and thought provoking, and that is why I am surprised that no one has ventured off the path to follow an idea and think about what could be going on behind closed doors...

***Next soapbox***
Northwest will refurbish and refit entire DC-9 fleet allowing them to fly until 2050...(sorry, couldn't resist a little humor.)

Mike in AUS