scotron11
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:18 pm

According to Reuters, the EU commission has reported that AZ's net loss for 2004 was 850M Euros ($1.074Billion). Separately, the commission has called for an independent expert to probe Fintecna's (an Italian state-owned company) 221M Euro ($288M) investment in AZ unit AZ Servizi, suspecting state aid, in violation of EU rules.

Only last week, Berlusconi was stating he wanted a AF/KLM-AZ full merger. I think we understand why.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5283
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:43 am

I don´t think it will be a good idea for AF/KLM to merge with AZ. If they will do, the problems will beginn for them.

Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:45 am

Air France-KLM should acquire the AZ assets (the brand/logo included) and reform it as a new company.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
bkonner
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:53 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:10 am

Howdy,

In another forum it has been reported that LH wants to get rid of it's BMI shares. They may be forced to buy the carrier in a stock deal made several years ago with BMI. LH owns 30 per cent of BMI (SAS owns 20 per cent). AF would be crazy to buy AZ. Its just asking for trouble. BMI I think is another story. While I think LH is crazy to get rid of its BMI holding, AF might want to take a look at this carrier. If the EU and the US ever finally negotiate an agreement, this would give AF access to such a key market. Not to mention, it would give AF lots of valuable slots at LHR.

Bkonner
 
scotron11
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:37 pm

The way it stands right now is that AZ wants the EU commission to complete its investigation of their reorganization by April/May so they can begin a recapitalization of the flying unit. If the EU commission decides to do a real "in-depth" probe, which can take up to 18 months, then AZ are in deeper trouble.

As of now, the EU commission has called for an independent expert to probe the investment in AZ Servizi, being made by state-owned company Fintecna. Also, they have previously stated that they have no evidence that the planned re-cap of the airline has any letters of intent from any investors other than the Italian government.
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:55 pm

It´s getting really pathetic with this airline. So no private investors lining up. What will be next?, the Italian government keep on pouring tax payers money in this airline. I think it is time to pull the plug and let the airline go belly up. Sad for all the employees, but it is rediculous that this oversubsidized airline stays alive.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:26 pm

J.C Spinetta, AFKL's CEO clearly stated that a merger AFKL-AZ "is out of question".
AFKL is doing very well, the first results of the group in terms of costs savings are well above all the expectations.
Spinetta is not crazy. AFKL is a private airline now; He will not take the risk to bring trouble and endanger the whole group just to buy a loss making, unruly, and unmanageable airline.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7184
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:39 pm

AF / KL dont need to buy AZ, they just have to siphon off the business through hub operations like they do today. Today more people fly from the Milan catchment area to the US via France than do directly.

The European Aviation industry is not a charity. It is time for AZ to be allowed to die so it can be re-born as a young vibrant carrier, similar to SN, LX, or even perhaps follow an EI model. Whatever happens watch LIN and FCO be invaded by EZY, with Bergamo and Ciampino becoming significantly larger FR hubs overnight. MXP?? where?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:18 pm

Such companys should not be allowed to be around anymore. More than 1 Bn$ in deths in only one year.
AF+KL should be really aware and not save them.

Best if they close down ops, and restart as a small regional carrier.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:17 am

i wonder what everyone would be saying had it been their national airline that was facing these charges...

lets say lufthansa was in the shitter, would you say "let it die" or the same for Air France?

funny how single-sighted...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
James768
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 11:26 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:32 am

Alitalia744

If Lufthansa or Air France were, as you put it 'in the shitter' then yes we would...

But then, they're not are they?
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7184
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:37 am

Yes, I would - This is EI's last chance saloon also. If they mess this one up they should go bankrupt also. SN is now a better carrier than it was previously.

AZ - perhaps you are being 'single sighted'.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:42 am

Alitalia744,

I understand what you mean, but the problem is that AZ has never earned a single Euro... nor a single Lira in past . ! AZ is not in a temporary difficult situaion : it's in chronical mess for decades !

For an Airline, Being "National" is not a handicap. But it doesn't mean also that it can last for ever without any real serious reorganisation plan, saving costs plan etc... and obviously AZ (and all its employees) doesn't want to face the reality of 2005.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7184
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:57 am

FlySCC - The last thing that AZ needs is talks of another reorganization plan. what happens is that they go from plan to plan without any implementation ever happening.

Alitalia need two things

Strong Management unafraid to stand up to the staff when taking serious surgical action on the company.
Strong Management that are not afraid to tell the government to back off.




You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004

Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:19 am

Alitalia744

I think you are the one that is single-sighted.
I do not agree with you. If KLM was such badly and shitty run as AZ I would be too ashamed to have any feeling of national pride for KLM. I really do not understand why Italians are proud of AZ. It has been one big mess and costs them many tax euro's. Heck, I would not even be surprised if I as a Dutch tax payer somehow through the EU contribute to the big black money hole called AZ. This airline should be finished off.

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