ScottB
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JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:24 am

Not that this is a surprise to anyone here, but the Boston Globe had a piece in the business section regarding jetBlue's future plans at Logan.

JetBlue to gain gates as it beefs up service from Logan

Some of the salient points (quotes from the article):


  • JetBlue, which currently has just two gates in Terminal E, is considering a significant increase in its flight schedule from Logan and will move its operations into Terminal C after Delta Air Lines moves out in March.

  • Delta is renovating Terminal A, and its move to that terminal will free up 10 gates and a number of ticket counters. It was not clear yesterday how many of the gates JetBlue might use.

  • JetBlue is adding 22 new planes to its fleet this year, and its chief executive, David Neeleman, has long talked about his desire to grow in Boston. Last month, Neeleman said he would like to start operating flights between Boston and New York.
 
FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:39 am

I cant wait for the expansion! I guess most of the cities we serve now will get BOS service as well [SAN, SEA, SMF, BUF, SJU]. I also heard that a lot of the 190s will be based there. Cant wait to see what happens!
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
DAYflyer
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:51 am

Uh oh, more bad news for US Airways. If JetBlue starts JFK-BOS service, US will suffer on revenue.

I also think that FL wanted expand operations in BOS. They may pick up some of the gates.
One Nation Under God
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:09 am

If JetBlue starts JFK-BOS service, US will suffer on revenue

I don't think so. Only the weekends would this hurt DL/US as that is when the leisure traveler heads to BOS or NYC.
The business traffic wouldn't use JFK with the convenience of the Shuttle routes. The clientele that flies this route will not spend an extra 30 minutes being taxied or driven to JFK just to take B6 when there are flights every half hour out of LGA with very lenient check in policies. There is presently limited service between JFK-BOS and it is in place for connections as few of the seats are sold with the final destination as BOS or JFK.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
richierich
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:17 am

The business traffic wouldn't use JFK with the convenience of the Shuttle routes. The clientele that flies this route will not spend an extra 30 minutes being taxied or driven to JFK just to take B6 when there are flights every half hour out of LGA with very lenient check in policies. There is presently limited service between JFK-BOS and it is in place for connections as few of the seats are sold with the final destination as BOS or JFK.

I do agree with this, DeltaMIA. Should JetBlue announce JFK-BOS service (and surely Song will follow with an annoucement 4 hours later!  Smile ), I can't imagine it would be an hourly shuttle-type schedule. JFK can't compete with LGA for that. I wouldn't be surprised if JetBlue flies JFK-BOS four or five times a day, however, to make connections to JFK destinations that BOS does not offer, especially redeye-only cities. This sounds a lot like Embraer material, not A320 flights though.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:26 am

I disagree with the previous two posts. The shuttle has been steadily losing customers to Amtraks Acela. It's much quicker to take the train from Midtown Manhattan to Boston/DC then it is to travel out to the airport, go thru security, check in, taxi out, fly, and then travel into the city at the destination.

The only thing that will change that trend are significantly lower fares on the air routes. B6 will do that. Throw in a very convenient rail connection to JFK vs NO rail connection at LGA and you will have a profitable, high freq air service between JFK and BOS.

Just my thoughts.

PJ
 
FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:30 am

And also I think that we forget that JFK is a lot more convenient to a lot of people. Also include all the delays, etc. at LGA and there is no reason that at least 3 JFK-BOS r/t's wouldnt work especially with the cities that JFK serve that BOS doesnt.



"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
petazulu
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:40 am

I agree, many business trevellers are not price blind (they are not bargain shopper either). If JetBlue is priced at $150 R/T it will take business from the shuttles. Shuttle prices will have to come down at least somewhat. Currently, it is about $500 R/T midweek. Factor in long island business travellers, students, and people who might drive- and you could fill flights as long as decent frequency is offered.

I am one of those business travellers, BTW. As a smaller company, I can;t just go up to my boss and tell him to spend $350 more to fly to/from JFK. Some people can, but there is a segment that will migrate.
 
ScottB
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:41 am

JetBlue would have to price a lot more aggressively between JFK and BOS than they do between JFK and SYR, ROC, BTV, and BUF -- if they want to take passengers away from Acela. Acela's one-way fare between NY Penn and BOS South Station is $99; jetBlue's average fare to upstate NY and BTV is roughly $80. Once you add in the cost of the AirTrain, taxes, and security fees, there would be no savings (again, on an average $80 fare) by flying, and flying would probably take longer.

People who are looking to go on the cheap take the bus at $15-25 each way. And if you count travel time out to JFK, the bus is probably not much slower.
 
DeltaMIA
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B6 Jfkbos

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:45 am

The only thing that will change that trend are significantly lower fares on the air routes

The fares aren't whats doing it. It is the timing. It is just as fast to take a train from midtown now then what it is to fly. A little slower, but less of a hassle.
I believe the Acela and Shuttle fares are roughly the same.
Again the clientele that do this care very little about price. For the most part they are negotiated fares anyway through contracts their corporations have with Amtrak and/or DL/US.

there is no reason that at least 3 JFK-BOS r/t's wouldn't work

They probably will work because of B6's JFK hub. Just not even come close to competing with the shuttle routes for point to point traffic. It would only be filled with connecting traffic.
As for delays at LGA. The DL Shuttle has a way around that.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:48 am

But the bus is an awful experience [at least in my opinion] as is the train. A lot of people live in the vicinity of JFK and BOS is not the far from downtown. JetBlue would probably start with $49 each way fares. Thats pretty significant because it would be everday of the week .. no saturday night stays .. we never overbook .. etc.

Now if we would just start a mega-hub at HPN, my life would be complete!  Big thumbs up
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
padcrasher
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:19 am

"The shuttle has been steadily losing customers to Amtraks Acela"

Not in the LGA-BOS market.

Daily passengers in the 2nd Q

2004 3608
2003 3487
2002 3420
2001 3400

source: DOT
 
padcrasher
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:29 am

Actually 2001 2Q was 5186 daily passengers, but there has been a slow steady increase since 9/11.
 
airbazar
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:33 am

And what makes you all think it will be BOS-JFK and not BOS-LGA?
Isn't B6 also looking to increase its presence at LGA? I bet you that's what they are after.
BOS-JFK is goor to connect to international destinations, but BOS-LGA is where the money is. I think there's a good chance we will see both.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:34 am

Plus when I take the train from NYC-BOS the Acela trains have always been late or delayed (or at least every-time I take it or I see the amtrak area on my way to LIRR) and there is 2 trains that are very close in time and I took the regular one and we beat the Acela by 1 1/2 hour. The Acela is just as dependable as a plane so it isn't much of a timing difference also because well plane is faster. B6 on LGA-BOS? I don't know really. I think they would probably aim for JFK because then they are trying for the same customers that US/DL have where at JFK they can get some of there passengers and some new ones too. JFK seems better for them.

As for the new gates at BOS-that should be nice with more flights from there.

ALSO, you know how B6 said they will open up a new focus city with 10+ flights, maybe it's BOS. They never said it will be a whole new city just a new focus city. With the new gates they should do that.

jetBlueAtJFK
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:00 am

As for delays at LGA. The DL Shuttle has a way around that.
Care to explain?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:05 am

Yea!?! The ATC is delayed not the terminal, even though that can cause personal delays but not to stop a plane. I think they still get the delays over there, same runways.

jetBlueAtJFK
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:59 am

As for delays at LGA. The DL Shuttle has a way around that.
Care to explain?


Sure.
They roll the flight numbers during ATC delays. Granted it forces them to cancel shuttle flights, but it still maintains the shuttle high ontime performance. So say Ground Delay Program avg 60 minutes at 2pm. The 2:30pm shuttle flight cancels the flight number rolls over to the 3:30pm (which atc thinks is the 2:30pm flight) and the 3:30pm dispatches on time. Its quite simple and causes minimal inconvenience.
The Shuttle is one of the most impressive airline operations I have ever seen. You can set your watch to it.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:19 am

"The only thing that will change that trend are significantly lower fares on the air routes. B6 will do that. Throw in a very convenient rail connection to JFK vs NO rail connection at LGA and you will have a profitable, high freq air service between JFK and BOS."

Remember the fastest way to JFK via rail is from Penn Station to Jamaica on the LIRR, then transfer to the Airtrain which makes 4 stops enroute to T-6.

Two people leave Penn Station at the same time both bound for Boston, one takes the LIRR to Jamaica making two stops in Queens (typical service level). That person then boards the Airtrain making stops at Federal Circle, Terminal One, Terminal Four and Finaly Terminal 6. The Airtrain is not connected directly to the Terminal, that person has to take an elevator down to the street and walk around the building (elevators drop you off on the side of T-6) to the front door where that person locates the Automated kiosks (assuming no bags). That person then heads for the security clearance area and ques up, assuming it's not during peak morning hours the person can be behind security and heading to his gates in ten minutes.

The other person at Penn Station heading for Boston walks down to track 4 West, boards the Acela and by the time the other person is clearing the security check point at JFK the other traveler is departing New Haven Connecticut's Union Station.

Amtrak has 40% of the NYC-Boston Market, and 60% of the NYC-Washington DC market. Business travelers always have and always will choose LGA's shuttles or Amtraks's Acelas vs flights from JFK, and leisure travelers looking for the cheapest way to Boston will drive themselves up 95 before the deal with driving to JFK and dealing with post 9-11 security hassles.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe)

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:37 am

STT757,

I agree there is no way that route will attract those trying to get from NYC to BOS. But there is no doubt that B6 will fill this flight, however it will be with their passengers going to/from BOS within their entire network especially as the E190 comes in and services cities that B6 will not service from both BOS and JFK.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

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