Checo77
Topic Author
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Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:45 am

The Czech Government officialy released the new: they are buying new planes for transport of politicians, VIP´s, aid for other countries, etc.
They are going to replace:

The old Russian TU-154M:


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by either a A-319 or a B-737NG

The old Russian Jak-40:


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by either a Brazilian Embraer or Canadian Bombardier 600.

Also, the Russian, old, helicopters Mi-8:


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by either Sikorski or Eucopter.

Fist deliviries in 2007 and the whole "package" should cost approx. 135 million dollars.

Thanks God we are updating our gov. fleet and the communist legacy is leaving!!!

Regards,
Adam

PS: The main reason why they are updating the fleet is because of:
1). New noise regulations made by the European union which these aircraf do not pass
2). They are getting older
3). We don´t want to look like a Russian satilite by flying for example to France with a Tupolev- very exotic + we look like a underdevoleped country with no money to buy new plane for the highest politians

Any thoughts welcome!!!
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:54 am

Congratulations, it's good that the VIPs are getting upgraded. But how many people do really notice that your leaders are flying in Russian made planes?

You have a great country and Russian made planes doesn't influence the country's image.

Cheers.
 
A350
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:57 am

Congratulations to soon getting a nice new fleet. For me, the Tupolev remembers rather to a government that cares about the taxpayer's money than to a satellite state. Our german A310s are also inherited from the communists.
However, that's an internal czech affair.

A350
 
Checo77
Topic Author
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:09 am

OD720,
Indeed I think that if our Tupolev lands for example in Portugal (just choose Portugal-nothing against it), many people will inmediately think that we are Communist or that at leats, we are a very poor conutry with no resourcs to buy new planes!!!

A350,
exactly, the Tupolev remides the Communist era and govrnment

Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
afay1
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:43 am

That is true of course, although none of the planes are probably that old. The Tu154M wasn't even introduced until the 1980s. Also, the planes were Soviet made, not Russian...semantics to be sure, but more accurate. Also, while rule was unfairly imposed from Moscow, it required a certain amount of collusion. This has nothing to do with the aircraft themselves. Are you a French satellite for flying planes made in France? No....at this point it has nothing to do with the planes, just with their utility. Government aircraft are not subject to noise restrictions anyway......
 
FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:46 am

Yes , it's true Russian planes wonder communism , but its' a pity to see these planes disappear from the European sky.
Anyway good the Czech government has chosen to buy more modern planes.
Hope they will go for Europeans products ,despite i think in the middle class they will chose Bombardier 600 , making sense since they already have CL604s.
Czechs are not poor , since they have one of the more beautiful European Capitals , Prague!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
afay1
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:17 am

Isn't it also ironic that the Czech Republic might buy Sikorsky helicopters to replace their Mil ones, as Igor Sikorsky was a Russian emigre. Mikhail Mil was also a Jewish Latvian and not an ethnic Russian. He also won the Sikorsky Prize for the Mi-7........History is interesting....
 
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N328KF
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:21 am

Igor Sikorsky was a Pole who lived in the Ukraine. One thing's for certain—he definitely wasn't a Soviet, as he left because of the Communists.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6447
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:51 am

135 million dollars!!! Good thing that I am not a Czech taxpayer.

My VIPs including HM the Queen travel mostly on scheduled airliners (business class), preferably SAS.

Occasionally they use one of three air force CL-600s which are otherwise used for fishery patrol in Greenland and such. The radar operator's chair is quite comfu.

The Icelandic president is a proud customer at the low cost carrier Iceland Express where he has to pay separately for a cup of coffee. Our Queen, however, hasn't been seen on Ryanair (yet).
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Checo77
Topic Author
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:43 am

Afay1,
the main reason why my gov. is changing the planes is because of the new noise restrictions made by the EU. It looks then that noise restrictions do apply into gov. planes.

FCKC,
yes, I think they will opt for Airbus since we are in the EU, its the same as the US gov. would not opt for a Airbus as well.

Prebennrholm,

I know 135millon dollars is a lot, but we don´t pay almost 60% of tax as Danish do (do not take it as any kind of offence). Also, the only people who travel with these planes is the president and the ministers. My gov. is used to take its own, trusted jurnalists with them to track the VIP´s journey. That´s why I think its cheaper to buy the planes than to always pay first class tickets to everybody.
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
columba
Posts: 5055
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:54 am

Well I predict that it will be the A319, the Challenger and the Eurocopter.
But this is not based on facts but more of a feeling.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:54 am

First delivery is in 2007 so the order can be expected within the next year.
Head Forum Moderator
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FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:12 am

Columba

Certainly you have the trio.No offense to you , but this is not the Challenger (they already have it) , but Bombardier 600.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:18 am

>but this is not the Challenger (they already have it) , but Bombardier 600.<

The CL-600 is the Challenger.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6447
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:27 am

Checo77: My gov. is used to take its own, trusted jurnalists with them to track the VIP´s journey. That´s why I think its cheaper to buy the planes than to always pay first class tickets to everybody.

Oh, there I see some difference. My government doesn't trust any journalists, so the VIPs travel alone. And the untrusted journalists hunt them in a cloud of rented biz jets.

And also your country probably doesn't have many fishery patrol aircrafts to be used as VIP planes.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:57 am

Prebennorholm,

I admire the scandinavian mentality and
I agree with you that there is nothing
wrong in using scheduled flights for
PM-s and politicians.
And that may work for
countries like Denmark or Hungary.
However, just imagine that G.W.Bush
takes a normal AA flight like a regular
costumer.
He would probably have to endure a
lots of verbal abuse and could be even
dangareous for his life.

So for security reasons there might be
a need for VIP planes.
Just think about Olof Palme and Anna
Lindh (I hope I spelled them correctly).

Udv
 
Checo77
Topic Author
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:39 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:31 am

Prebennorholm,
you are right, we have no fishery patrol aircrafts since we do not have sea, so that´s why the need to buy planes for VIP´s.
My guess: A-319, Bombardier and Eurocoper

Why I´d rather see: B-737NG, Embraer and Eurocopter.
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
afay1
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:09 pm

Surely you must know this old Iron Curtain joke:

The Soviet foreign minister asks his Czechoslovak counterpart why his landlocked country has a new Ministry of the Marine...he replies that Bulgaria has a Ministry of Culture and the USSR has a Mininstry of Justice, so, hey, why not....  Big grin
 
FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:39 pm

Afay1

Very nice joke..........

I think Switzerland has a Ministry of the Marine................for the lakes of Leman , Neuchatel and Constance.
 
Checo77
Topic Author
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:39 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:27 am

Never heard this joke, but it is good!!! And very real in that time...
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:54 am

Yes, and there used to be an Austrian Navy...but that was when they controlled Yugoslavia.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:50 am

That´s why I think its cheaper to buy the planes than to always pay first class tickets to everybody.

Why first class? I thought they're "serving the public". At least that's what they are so good at saying, aren't they? Business is more than enough for these corrupt f**ers.

It was stupid from the previous Czech governments to buy the Tu-154Ms in the first place. They were bought in the 2nd half of the 1990s as part of the deal with Russia to erase part of their several billion USD worth debt.
What they will really buy is a question. It was amusing to hear the defence minister using the argument that chartering small jets ad hoc for individual flights would be MORE EXPENSIVE than buying them and letting them most of the time sit and corrode at the old Ruzyne airport. I guess someone should tell him about NET JETS, privatair etc and how fractal ownership of an aircraft works.

Also the argument that 2/3 of the time the Tu-154s are used for flying the troops to/from their foreign does not hold much water either. If they need capacity for troop transport, buy a Herculeses or Alenias not ACJs or BBJs or something smaller.

I certainly see no reason for the taxpayers to foot the bill for a large aircraft just because it a tradition to give a ride to the journalists (the transport is offered to all major newspapers, regardless of their political leaning, prior to each foreign trip). If they journalists feel the need to be on the spot, let them fly scheduled flights.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:37 am

If they used NETJETS, what happens if you suddenly decide to fly and all the jets are out?.
 
Checo77
Topic Author
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:39 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:07 am

L410Turbolet,
exactly my words. I hate our current gov.I think they should buy small planes with high range for their own transport and their security at max. If the juornalist want to cover the route, then fly scheduled flights- with this, 90% of the journalist would never fly even to Berlin for the president visit, because for them is very lucrative to fly for free around the world with the president- getting to know high functionaries around the world.
Lets hope ODS wins the next elections...
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
L410Turbolet
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:50 am

If they used NETJETS, what happens if you suddenly decide to fly and all the jets are out?.

What happens? The taxpayer saves money, that's what happens. Wink/being sarcastic If there's any significance and importance of foreign trips, then it's those made by the president and the prime minister. The ministers travel mainly to Brussels, for which 6 daily scheduled flights are more than enough. And parliament deputies? They should sit in the parliament and make laws, not trott around the globe and waste taxapyer's money.

NetJets was just a thought. I am not saying they should buy no a/c at all. At the same time it's not clear what they want to buy in the first palce. The statement said "one large pax a/c and four small". Since our teenage prime minister 9 out of 10 times has no clue what he's talking about, it could mean anything. Maybe he has megalomaniac wet dreams of 777 and 4 BBJs. Nuts

No seriously I think there should be one, maybe two VIP a/c for the top gov't officials, not necessarily with transatlantic capability and some REAL transport aircraft. Given the low utilisation of these aircraft and low frequency of transatlantic there's no real need for it.

Embraer 190 + 135 in VIP configuration or perhaps 39-seat version ACJ + Embraer 135 would be nice.

 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:28 pm

Hi folks,

the plan to replace the TU154M are a bit surprising as the Czech and Slovak Government TUs are almost the last officially delivered to customers back in 1996 (see airlinerlist.com). So they are only 8-9 years old and taking into account that government operated planes usually do not accumulate extremely amounts of hours these planes are more new than old. As opposed to the market value of these Russian planes, which surely is quite low. So it will take an awful lot of time until the new planes will have brought the return of the investment.

BTW: Does Airbus offer any "Combi" version of the A319 as Boeing does with the C-40? If they want to use it also for military transport flights this could be extremely useful. In case Airbus can not offer these capabilities I wouldn't be that sure that they go for Airbus (then purely for political reasons).

As for the Helicopters? I don't know. Eurocopter's Cougar/Puma is known for its crash worthiness and therefore often bought by Governments. So this could be a hint.

No clue for the small jets ...

Cheers
Jan
 
Checo77
Topic Author
Posts: 1263
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RE: Czech Government To Buy New Planes

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:01 am

PADSport,
the TUs are being replaced mainly because of the new EU regulation about aircraft noise. I think starting 2006 or 2007, the TU and ANT of our gov. could not depart and/or land in any EU airport.
I prefer for them to change the TU, but I don´t want them to buy big planes like a 747 or similir. As L410Turbolet said, the best option would be a smaller plane with the right capacity for top gov. officials.
And we would all be happy.
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima

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