SHUPirate1
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JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:06 pm

Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
FoxBravo
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:01 pm

Nice. Delta can't be happy about this...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:31 am

Score one for jetBlue! Now all they have to do is start BOS-JFK and get those E190s and start service IND-JFK and they'll have all my business... as soon as i get enough WorldPerks Miles to use them all.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
ei2ksea
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:42 am

This will be very interesting in terms of the new routes they will offer - SEA, SLC, MSY would be nice, maybe JetBlue could make a nice killing also on Syracuse, Buffalo and Rochester with their ERJ's if US cuts them services in the future. If anything they are now nicely placed to take over some established routes if US did suffer the unmentionable....

coolbeans B6!
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727LOVER
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:02 am

Are B6's transcons more profitable than the Florida runs?
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N801NW
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:12 am

Does anyone know if Northwest will resume using E1A & E1B?

The Boston Globe article two days ago at least gave the impression that transcon's are more profitable as the A320 is being used to the potential of its range. But I could be wrong.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:01 am

Are B6's transcons more profitable than the Florida runs?

It obviously depends. B6 sees better loads between BOS and FL, so I'd assume that they are more profitable (judging on the fact that the transcons don't see much higher fares anyway).

Congrats to both BOS and B6. 11 gates?! That's how many gates JetBlue has at JFK as of right now and they have shown that they can operate 110+ flights from that terminal. So that basically means that B6 is looking at 100+ flights from BOS. Cool.

My bets for the next routes from BOS are: PBI, SJU, SMF. It'll also be nice to see them expand with the E190s out of BOS.

BTW, I've never been to BOS. Is Terminal C in bad shape right now or something? According to the press release they'll be putting in $9 million dollars for renovations. I wonder what these renovations will include...hopefully they make it a "blue world" such as T6 at JFK.

JetBluefan1
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:10 am

GREAT NEWS! I predicted this in another post about 2 days ago. I knew a BOS focus city was on it's way. What other airlines operate out of Terminal C?

jetBlueAtJFK
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:22 am

N/M answered myself:
Air Canada Jazz (except int’l arrivals)
Cape Air
Continental
Delta Air Lines
Delta Connection / Atlantic Coast
Delta Connection / Comair
Midwest
Song
United
United Express / Atlantic Coast

But who is going to leave to make room for them? Delta is but who else.


B6JFK
 
Azul320
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:28 am

They should have started a larger focus city at OAK instead of BOS
Just my $0.02.
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AADC10
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:31 am

Would this be considered a setback for Southwest, since JetBlue will become the biggest LCC at Logan? Or is Boston not really relevent to Southwests plans?
 
Azul320
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:34 am

Boston and Manchester are two different cities.
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LH423
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:39 am

Boston's not really relevant. WN have chosen to fly out of PVD and MHT (each about 75 minutes from Boston, depending on traffic). WN will be operating out of Boston on a codeshare basis with TZ. However, B6 have made quite a splash here in Boston and I think many people that were starting to go to MHT and PVD for lower fares have started coming back to BOS. Even with business traffic returning, BOS had a rise of like 12% (or 4 million people) over 2003 traffic levels. That traffic had to come from somewhere. I think as long as B6 don't pull a PeoplExpress on us and grow too fast, they will be an integral part of BOS's growth in the coming years.

BTW, the disclaimer at the end of the press release has to be one of the most interesting I've ever seen.

"This press release contains statements of a forward-looking nature, which represent our management's beliefs and assumptions concerning future events. Forward-looking statements involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions and are based on information currently available to us. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements due to many factors, including without limitation, potential hostilities in the Middle East or other regions, our ability to implement our growth strategy and our dependence on the New York market, our fixed obligations and our limited operating history, seasonal fluctuations in our operating results, increases in maintenance costs, fuel prices and interest rates, our competitive environment, our reliance on sole suppliers, government regulation, our failure to properly integrate LiveTV or enforce its patents, our ability to hire qualified personnel, the loss of key personnel and potential problems with our workforce including work stoppages, and continuing changes in the airline industry following the September 11th terrorist attacks and the increased risk of future attacks, the potential risks with the delivery, placing into service and integration into our operations of the EMBRAER 190 aircraft as well as the potential liability relating to our handling of customer data. Additional information concerning these and other factors is contained in the Company's Securities and Exchange Commission filings, including but not limited to, the Company's Annual Report on Form 10-K and Quarterly Reports on Form 10-Q. We undertake no obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date of this release."  Smile

LH423
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PHLBOS
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:39 am

JetBlueAtJFK,

Atlantic Coast Airlines (ACA) has since become Independence Air, moved to Terminal B; and, hence, no longer flies for Delta Connection and United Express.

Apparently, Massport still needs to update its Terminal C listings. I'm assuming that Air Wisconsin is now doing the United Express flights out of BOS.

But who is going to leave to make room for them? Delta is but who else.

Song will probably move along with Delta & ComAir to the new Terminal A.

Presently, Delta, ComAir & Song occupy 10 Terminal C gates (plus 2 at B); so for one more gate, I think YX would be the likely candidate to be relocated to either one of DL's current B gates or to one of B6's current E gates.

[Edited 2005-02-02 21:42:31]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
COfaninBOS
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:43 am

I certainly hope CO goes back to Terminal A along with Delta and her regional/low-cost partners.

I miss Terminal A. Terminal C just plain sucks. Drab, boring, and looooong security lines at times.
 
rjpieces
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:53 am

Or is Boston not really relevent to Southwests plans?

Southwest has been drawing Boston-area pax to Providence, RI and Manchester, NH.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:58 am

Ahhhh sookey-sookey now.. I"m seeing some possible routes...

RDU-JFK, BOS, FLL.. seems like 3 solid destinations to me... also seems to me that RDU will be offering B6 up to 3 gates here..
Aiming High and going far..
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:00 am

BTW.. what was the new red-eye? was that not announced or was it the SJC?
Aiming High and going far..
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:19 am

so for one more gate, I think YX would be the likely candidate to be relocated to either one of DL's current B gates or to one of B6's current E gates.
It is possible that YX shares a gate with another airline. Also, I do believe CO is relocating to A. Air Canada Jazz could relocate to E though, that'd be interesting.



Nice to see that jetBlue can be New York's airline AND Boston's airline! Not many NY based companies can do that! I'd speculate that this focus operation and a few breaks from other airlines (USAirways) would possibly bring a shuttle service to IAD, LGA, and maybe JFK. Also, I think PBI, SMF, SLC, SEA, and MSY as possible cnadidates as well as STI, SJU, and BQN and MAYBE PHX.

The E190's also will have increased range and can land at virtually any commercial airport, so I'd think BUF and ROC and maybe SYR would be in the mix from BOS and some cities win the midwest might also get service to BOS and JFK at the same time. This is great news for B6 and I look foward to more.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:20 am

What do you mean by red-eye SJC, like from BOS or... I think they meant they were opening up a new city, not a city that is already served. I hope that isn't it because I want a new city...maybe RDU! Hopefully after all of B6's work on TC at BOS it won't be so "Drab, boring,...". The security lines I don't think they can fix because that isn't theirs to fix, but the terminal should be nicer once B6 is in and DL is out.

B6JFK
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:23 am

Nah.. what I was saying is that I thought they were going to open a new 10+ focus city and a new red-eye.. I saw that the SJC was starting May 3.. thought if it was the new red-eye.. or if it was/is going to be a new red-eye announced soon...
Aiming High and going far..
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:06 am

looking forward to the move from Term E to Term C. i'm sure the red-eye city everyone is talking about is gonna be a brand new city.

in regrads to Term C...(that is if anyone is familiar w/ that terminal) does it have immigration/customs to handle international passengers? if so...there could be a chance to open up STI to BOS.

also can't wait for BOS-SJC/LAS to start. i'm sure the LAS flights will do really well. it'll be interesting to see what the flights will be like (party wise). i loved working the JFK-LAS flights cause of all the energy you feel from everyone getting ready to blow lots of money at the casino's and all the excitment!

can't wait to see what our route map will look like at the end of '05 w/ all the planned "connecting the dots" we are gonna be doing. hopefully by then our route map will be interactive like Airtran or WN's...

~B6FA4ever
 
BOSSAN
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:41 am

N801NW, Northwest holds a long-term lease (expiring in 2010 IIRC) on preferential terms on E1A and E1B. They were strong-armed by Massport into subleasing those gates to jetBlue. My guess is that the leases are inexpensive enough that once Massport has free gates available Northwest will go back to operating those two gates itself rather than lease them out again. The tarmac has looked reasonably crowded with the regional jets from MKE, MEM and IND and only 3 gates.

JetBluefan1, Terminal C isn't dilapidated, but it has not had a gut renovation in the 30 years or so that it has been open. (I found a picture dated in the mid-70s looking along the length of the TWA ticket counter (where Continental's is now) with a decorative mirror array on a wall in the background, and those mirrors are still there.) I'm guessing jetBlue will spend the money on new ticket counters and on freshening up their pier beyond security as a branding measure.

B6FA4ever, Terminal C does not have customs; all inbound international flights (with the exception of pre-cleared Canadian flights) arrive at Terminal E where passengers are processed, and are towed empty to their departure terminal for boarding. Two other FISes are in limbo; Terminal A was designed to hold one, but the last I'd read Massport refused to operate it, and American's shelved plans to rebuild its half of Terminal B included an FIS.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:28 am

There is no customs in Terminal C. AF currently has to arrive at the E terminal, and tow to C for the departure. I don't think we'll see international from BOS on B6
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MQrampBOS
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:51 am

AF no longer departs from Terminal C. DL handles the inbound and outbound at Terminal E now. Haven't heard if AF is going to Terminal A with them, but there's always a possibility.
Don't put me on A7! I got out of the airport, so why send me back?
 
LH423
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:52 am

No, with all the hassle and money spent on getting AF in terminal E, people there have told me that there is no chance of getting them to move to A. Furthermore, it was enough of a headache just towing from E to C (upwards of 20 minutes at the time of day their flights would need towing) that to tow from E to A would be a logistical nightmare. AF are in E for good.

No, if B6 don't mind having to operate international flights into one terminal and out of another (BOS isn't that big that it's an impossible feat), I think we could see some Caribbean flights. However, I'm sure they'd be welcome on the SJU route which doesn't require FIS procedures.

LH423
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chrisnh
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:15 pm

The thought by some is that JetBlue in Boston is attracting some of the business back from MHT and PVD.

Well, keep this in mind: there's more to an airport's popularity than LCCs and their wonderful fares. There's ease of getting to and from the airport; cost of parking; the overall 'hassle factor.' You won't find many saying that Logan wins that contest over Manchester. So if the fares are no longer the differentiator they used to be, then there are other things that will still attract passengers to MHT. If growth rates start to plateau at MHT, then an argument can be made. Thus far, that isn't happening.

Chris in NH
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 pm

OMG.. Logan is horrible.. I flew into BOS last year.. and it took me about 30 minutes just to get from the departure curb to Ted Williams Tunnel.. there was a virtual bottleneck at the exit.. It SUCKED!
Aiming High and going far..
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:27 pm

Well it looks like we know where a bunch of E-190's will be going in the future.
 
BOSSAN
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:09 pm

Chris in NH, I agree that people choose airports based on convenience as well as fares. MHT has grown rapidly on the basis of Southwest's service, but it had service from several carriers before WN began flying there. Those airlines obviously saw the location of Manchester Airport as a convenience factor for passengers and fostered its initial terminal construction and growth.

As Manchester continues to grow, it will likely lose a bit of its convenience factor. The widened access road from the highway has improved traffic flow, but only up to a point, and the satellite parking lots have continued to get further from the terminal; more garage parking would result in higher parking rates. Terminal expansions adding more gates will increase walking distances, and the three-belt baggage claim will need expansion. Nevertheless, it will still be cheaper to park at MHT than BOS, the tolls on the Everett Turnpike will be lower than those on the Boston Harbor tunnels, etc.

Boston Logan is both cursed and blessed by its proximity to downtown Boston. By being just across the Inner Harbor from downtown, it has a tiny land area for an international airport and no room to expand. Most people traveling to or from the airport have to pass through downtown Boston, which has had notorious traffic. That traffic is being significantly improved at the core by the Big Dig project, and is already terrific outside rush hour, but the roads outside downtown will still be congested at rush hour.

However, Logan vies with San Diego's Lindbergh Field for the nearest airport to a downtown, and a 15 minute cab ride between Logan and the Financial District isn't record-breaking. Logan also has easy access from the subway from downtown. Those make it very convenient for business travelers to pop in for the day, and contribute to Boston's flight frequencies and range of nonstop destinations. In particular, I've found that being able to take a nonstop flight to the west coast after work to be terribly useful both for business and for pleasure; the difference between 6 hours with no connection versus 8 hours with makes a big difference to my wakefulness the next day. I believe Manchester has a long enough runway for transcontinental flights, but has not attracted such service yet.

Boston also has more population in its catchment area than Manchester does, partly because of the distance between them and partly because of the radial nature of the roads leading to and from downtown Boston. People in Worcester, Newburyport or Manchester-by-the-sea will have to go significantly out of their way to get to Manchester Airport, and I have a co-worker who lives near Dover, NH who uses Logan instead of Manchester for business travel because he finds the drive easier and the flight schedule better.

I live a short distance from a subway station, and have a car; without traffic, it's about an hour, from my front door to the terminal, for me to drive to MHT or take transit to BOS. Given that travel time on transit is much more predictable than traffic between Boston and New Hampshire during commute times, and given that BOS has a larger schedule of flights than MHT, I find BOS significantly more convenient. Having LCCs there makes it easier for me to justify using BOS over MHT for leisure travel, but I'm betting my business travel would be out of BOS regardless.

ERJ170, I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with Big Dig related traffic on your last trip to Boston. I'm guessing that there was a construction-related change that was backing up traffic from the tunnel; I got stuck in one last October while leading a friend back from picking up his rental car during rush hour. The particular bottleneck I ran into has been ameliorated through an added lane on the Southeast Expressway, and the final ramp arrangement will be much less kinky than the one that the backed-up traffic had to go through. I hope the next time you travel via BOS you have a better experience.
 
LH423
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:22 pm

No, no one is saying that now with more options of LCCs at BOS suddenly no one will want to use PVD or MHT. But the fact is, while BOS grew at an average of 12-14% in 2004 both PVD and MHT only grew at about 6%. Now, that's not to say that the other 6% are travelling out of BOS. But, the fact is airlines added more flights and larger aircraft to cater to more demand in BOS.

Frankly, BOS needs MHT and PVD. Imagine if those airports weren't there. BOS would already be handling over 35 million passengers (based on current numbers at the three airports). As proven, BOS can barely handle the present 27 million until contruction is over with.

Also, for the record, it's not just jetBlue. It's jetBlue, Independence, ATA, Song, as well as America West, Cayman Airways, Aeromexico, American, US Airways, etc. that added quite a few flights in 2004.

For many MHT, PVD, and, to a lesser extent, BDL will remain easier options. And those airports will continue to grow and prosper as well. But for the large majority BOS will still be the only viable option. When (if!) Amtrak or the MBTA start serving PVD from South Station in Boston I'm sure more travellers will opt for that since PVD is a kick-ass airport for its simplicity and ease-of-use.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:33 pm

Did any one else notice the slow phase in rate of the gates? It looks like B6 is going to expand at BOS at a very metered pace. Jumping from 2 to 6 gates is a nice small first step. But 11 gates at the end?  Wow! What is B6 's current gate density (flights/day)? I would guess that is 120 to 150 flights a day!  Wow!

Congrats B6! Everyone is right, DL won't be happy...

Ps, back when I live in CT, it was a joy ride to drive around Bean city (Big Dig and all.) It felt like a slot car race!  Smile
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
gift4tbone
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:04 pm

About the big dig.....I drive from rhode island to Wakefield, mass, (about 10-15 miles north of boston) every week, and The traffic is getting better. But sometimes, especially at night, the southbound traffic is horrible when they close the tunnel.

As for the outer airports. I think PVD and MHT will continue to grow, as they have been. More and more people are flying period. So more people, means more for all.

BOS will likely not see significant growth, until the new runway is built, to minimize delays. They also need to reduce landing fees.

PVD, sad to say I think is not going to get much bigger. Not because the airport traffic doesnt warrant it. But because the people of warwick do not want it. (it may be called PVD, but its really 2 towns away in warwick) Everytime a vote is made in warwick to expand PVD's runway, it gets shot down. Until PVD sees a longer runway, I don't see much more expansion.

MHT, i do not know too much at all about MHT, but to that comment about transon. PVD does have i believe 2 daily n/s flights to PHX on WN. Maybe we'll see LAS, or LAX someday.

-Tony@PVD

edited for spelling

[Edited 2005-02-03 12:05:15]
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:18 pm

Hey BOSSAN,

Just to clarify, my problem wasn't actually with the big dig.. my problem was actually getting out the airport.. there was just a bottleneck at the exit station cause there were only 3 open (2 for paying and 1 for speed pay) and e'rybody was paying.. so it took forever.. and those damn cabbies were driving like sh!t.... I mean, if Massport was going to have a pay exit.. they needed to put about 10 of those things and have at least 60% open at all times.. it was rediculous.. and it was like 8:00 when I arrived.. it was just mad!

The big dig part was actually quite refreshing and moved smoothly..
Aiming High and going far..
 
LH423
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:53 pm

ERI170: The tunnels and Tobin Bridge are run by the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, not Massport. So Massport really has no say on the matter. I have a FastLane tag so I never have to wait, but you're right. I've seen some pretty lengthy back-ups at the Ted Williams Tunnel, usually around 9:30pm. Either way, the Turnpike Authority or Massport, neither are known as models of efficiency or common sense, but that's Massachusetts politics for you!

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:01 pm

LH423..

perhaps I am saying something wrong.. I'm not sure.. but the problem was not with the Ted Williams Tunnel.. Like I said, paying and getting through the Ted Williams tunnel was a breeze.. big "Big Dig" success...

my problem was trying to exit the airport.. there was a bottleneck trying to get out of the airport.. before even getting to the Ted Williams toll..
Aiming High and going far..
 
airbazar
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:01 am

People forget one thing: MHT and PVD are regional airports while BOS is one of the top 10 busiest airports in the country (or thereabout). Comparing one and hte other is like comparing apples and oranges. MHT and PVD have a certain customer base while BOS has a completely different customer base. They don't compete with eachother, they complement eachother. The fact that BOS has nearly twice the International carriers that ATL has (the largest airport in the US), should be obvious that BOS and MHT/PVD are different.

For me personally, BOS is always more convenient than MHT even though I live closer to MHT than I do to BOS, because I like to fly non-stop when possible and MHT just doesn't offer as many non-stop destinations. Also, half of my flights are international.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: JetBlue Plans New Focus City At BOS

Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:09 am

Also, for the record, it's not just jetBlue. It's jetBlue, Independence, ATA, Song, as well as America West, Cayman Airways, Aeromexico, American, US Airways, etc. that added quite a few flights in 2004.

Didn't AirTran also add some services to BOS as well? When I used them last October; they were utilizing all 3 of the D gates (1C, 1D, & 1E).

ERJ170,

One thing to keep in mind with the Big Dig project is as a result of the Ted Williams Tunnel being added; many of the feeder roads to/from the terminals to the Tunnel and Route 1A (McClellan Highway) were reworked/re-aligned/added, etc were included in the project as well. It's quite possible that when you were last there, some of the final access ramps from the terminal to the tunnel were still being worked on or (not construction-related) there may have been a bad accident that was blocking a travel lane or two.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981

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