FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 10:10 am

I am so fed up with Southwest. I made dinner reservations at the Elk Tavern in Baltimore. The reservation was for 8:30. I was scheduled in SWA's fight plan to leave Cleveland Hopkins at 5:15. The plane arrived at 6:30. They didn't start boarding until 7:00. I arrived at BWI at 8:00. I'm fed up with their stampeding at the gate. It's like a rodeo to get the sacred number 1. I've had it with their chronic delays. On the way back the plane was 45 minutes late. On the plane the pilots were wearing shorts. It seems to me that that airline is trying to take the dignity out of flying. They always lower the standard. I miss the days when airlines had good service, that you remembered. I know that it was my fault for making dinner reservations. I guess you do get what you pay for, and what I paid for was a ticket for a seat in a plane. Nothing else. I didn't pay for an ontime arrival, or good service, that must cost extra. I don't know how an airline with such bad service can stay in business. I guess it's because of the low fares. Basically I got crap for service, lost dinner reservations, and an overall disappointment. I wish other airlines would match their fares, like JetBlue. I hope they have good service. When they come to Akron/Canton I will have no need to drive to Hopkins.
 
trey
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 11:28 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 10:44 am

thank goodness. i thought i was the only one.
SWA's boarding process, service, and crap phantom hub system is somehting i try and avoid as often as possible. there is nothing quite like flying from msy to abq (a trip i took just last week) from msy -hou-lubbock-abq. i really enjoyed the round the world(texas) flight, but for only saving 30-40 bucks i would have just as assumed taking delta-to dfw then to abq. to bad that was full. overall you are correct, you get what you pay for and certainly not a bit more on SWA.
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

I Agree Trey.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 11:02 am

Thanks for showing some other facts, I just wanted to make sure it just wasn't on that route. There are too many Southwest sympathizers on this forum, that obscure the facts, and make excuses. It just has to stop, and I want to make sure that more people can share their Southwest stories, whether they be positive or negative.
 
Guest

A Big Amen! From Me.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 11:36 am

I took a round trip PHX-SEA that had so many stops both ways that I thought I'd explode (or implode from hunger). As an aviation fan I love take offs and landings, but I had limited time and couldn't shake the thought of being able to drive it as fast.(I know, I know, but it seemed that way). I actually used the "B-word" to a woman in the line who declared that she had a condition that required her to use the bathroom every 20 minutes so she had to get on the plane first so she could sit by the lav despite her high boarding number. She called some old lady who pointed out her high number the same thing and I couldn't help it. That's very unlike me. And she never did use the lav. I did get some laughs by making cow and sheep noises during the stampede. A couple others did the same, which was cool. I respect them for filling their niche so well, but I won't be filling one of their seats again. Not worth the stress.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 12:32 pm

While I myself have never had any bad experiences with WN. But, then again, I've never flown them on any flight longer than LAX/ONT-LAS, ONT-SJC, ONT-PHX. But I must share a lot of your sentiments as far as "getting what you paid for". I think you already answered your own question. Unfortunately, most people will go through extraordinary lengths to save money, hence the popularity of Southwest. Because the public has that mentality, and Southwest is growing like a weed, they WILL be the size of American or United within 10 years.
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:17 pm

The KMart of flying coming soon to an airport near you and seeking to fulfill its mission of DUMBING DOWN the air industry.
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 3:10 pm

Give me a break, guys. You all bought tickets on WN because they were the cheapest. If you don't like the service, break open your little piggie banks and fork over the extra dollars.

They might not always be on time, the boarding process sucks, but they always get you there safely and in reasonably new aircraft. You're not getting sympathy from me.
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 3:15 pm

Hey all,

Next time fly on America West! They will treat you much better!
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 3:48 pm

Somebody has to defend my friend Herb. I volunteer.

Every airline experiences delays. As a frequent flyer, you learn to expect it at certain times during the week, especially Friday afternoon and evening. My advice to you: get over it. I deal with it weekly, there is very little you can do to make it better.

If it rains in PHL, the airport shuts down. The carrier has nothing to do with that. It's ATC. Heck, BOS seems to shut down when it's sunny and bright. Anyway, if a plane gets delayed in Dallas for an hour, every flight that plane runs will be late. It's just the way the industry works. Of all the carriers in the US, Southwest is one of the few who can take a delay and turn it around to recover a lot of time within just a few segments.

I like the fact that Southwest encourages their people to dress down. Do you know how many pilots from other carriers act downright snobbish toward you when you're boarding the plane? Southwest reminds you that the flight crew is human too.

Keep in mind that Southwest is still at the top of the charts when it comes to on-time arrivals, safety, and lowest number of passenger complaints.

I'm hearing that the service is bad. How do you define service? Is service how the cabin crew and gate/ticketing agents treat you, or is service a four-course meal on a 90 minute flight? To most people, it's a combination of the two. However, you knew when you bought your ticket that the "snack" would be your coke and a bag of peanuts or pretzels. So if the crew was friendly and helpful, the only way you got bad service was if your coke was warm or your peanuts weren't salted.

There is one other thing that you have to remember, when Southwest comes into a city with new service, very rarely do they do it with less than ten flights. They usually offer a lot of flights to a lot of places, usually within one or two stops and/or connections.

In a lot of markets, Southwests's Y-fare tickets are about the same price as another carrier's discounted 14-day advanced purchase ticket.

If you want to get an insight of how and why Southwest does some of the crazy things they do, you need to read Nuts! : Southwest Airlines' Crazy Recipe for Business and Personal Success. I've set up the search link at Amazon, you'll find it here.

If you read this book, there is a story about a passenger who was never happy with her flights. She hated the fact that there was no meal, no first class seats, no pre-assigned seating, and that the people were off the wall. After several letters going through the customer service department, her letter was passed onto Herb, asking what they should do. Herb grabbed his notepad, hand-writing a letter that went something like "Dear Mrs. Crabtree, We'll miss you. Love, Herb."

My point to this story? If you don't like my friends at Southwest, and if you're going to whine about the "crap for service," please, go spend two or three times as much for a more limited flight schedule so you can get the same delays and even worse "crap for service" from UAL.
 
Guest

Hypermike

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:10 pm

I agree with you completely... I work for America West here in PHX and don't appreciate Southwest taking away business, but they are a great company. They must be doing something right, even though I prefer not to fly them!

I do prefer the professionalism here at my airline by flight crews, but I do admire how they're able to be relaxed and fun loving at Southwest.

Here's some Texas talk for all you great Southwest employees:

Ya'll are doin' a great job o'er at Southwest Airlines... Keep it up and don't listen to these people... they'll eventually find other airlines, hopefully America West!
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:17 pm

Hypermike and TWA 717_200,

Y'all have hit the nail right on the head.

For you naysayers, feel free to take your business to the corporate hegemons of UA and AA. Friendly skies my a*s!
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

SW

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:19 pm

Huh?? Reasonable new aircraft????? I didn't know Boeing still made 737-200s!! Maybe I've been sleeping for the last 20 years.....

But seriously...Pilots in shorts???? Come on. I know they want to project a laid-back image..but a Pilot is still a professional. Look Like One for god's sake. If they want to "dress-down" try bluejeans, golf shirts, etc. But have some standards!!! Hey..even at K-Mart stores, which SW is constantly compared to, they make cashiers wear a vest with the "K".

People rush the gate thinking they got the best deal in aviation history but they don't realize that SW's fares are NOT always the lowest. Only in certain markets & times. Last year I would have flown them simply for the thrill of takeoffs & landings but I couldn't ignore another airline's lower fare....and professional service to go with that fare.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:31 pm

Bruce,

SWA operate over 60 spankin' new 737-700 aircraft, more than AA, DL, or CO. The 737-200's will be phased out and the 733's and 735's are still very young. Hell, SW was the launch customer of both the 735 and 73G.

Maybe their fares ain't always the best, but their point-to-point service is unrivalled. From my neck of the woods, WN are the only operators that can give me nonstops to CA destinations and to LAS. If I ever decide to go to Las Vegas, that will factor heavily in my decision to (maybe) pay a few bucks more.

Hypermike said it best: With Herb you know that you are getting a bag of peanuts period, with other airlines you are getting a "snack".

BTW, why criticize the airline because of the poor taste in clothes of the pilots. I'm sure there are SWA pilots who won't touch anything other than pressed pants and pilot whites.

If your place of business has "Casual Fridays" you will know what I mean. If John X wears an ugly Hawaiian shirt, it is unfair of me to say that his firm will provide me with substandard service.

Also, it boosts crew morale to let em wear what they like. Morale is something missing at a lot of major airlines.
 
rominato
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 1999 12:18 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:46 pm



Barnaby wrote:
-------------------------------
Maybe their fares ain't always the best, but their point-to-point service is unrivalled.

The one, (and last) time I flew them it was point to point to point to point... it took all day, and frankly wasn't worth the minimal amount i saved. I'm sure it works for a lot of people, but count me out. I have had much better service and a much quicker overall trip flying United.
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:55 pm

Then why don't you fly United if you think they have better service and quicker flights. Gosh, you were the one who chose the flights so just get over it. No need to bash Herb's airline. All airlines have a share of delays once in a while, it's not just SW. And the clothes, it's just style. I bet they feel a lot more comfortable in a pair of shorts and a golf shirt than what the usual pilots wear.

-WiL SW737
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Point To Point To Point To Point

Tue Mar 28, 2000 5:00 pm

If you happen to be going to one of SW's "points" (notice I don't say "hubs") then its great. But a cross country flights.....can take all day......

I disagree about dress code. They don't have to always wear those "pilot whites" but there has to be some standard. The flying public is trusting their lives to these people. Its not an "ordinary" job. I don't trust my life to the pizza delivery guy, so I don't care what he's wearing.

Maybe it boosts morale but does it show pride in your job or company?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
ABQ757
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 1:06 pm

Jealousy

Wed Mar 29, 2000 1:39 am

I think you are all jealous about the fact that your Airline didnt come up with the "dress down" idea first. So what if they wear shorts. Oh no!!!!!!! the brand new 737-700 is going to crash and burn beacause the pilot is wearing shorts, and the great salted peanuts are just going to keep the fire going. I dont think that the plane will crash if the pilot is wearing shorts. I personally enjoy the point-point-point-point thing, but i am my own person. The one thing i dont like is the "first one gets a free blow job from Pamela Lee" boarding plan, but hey Southwest is a great airline, even though the pilots wear shorts. But i agree with TWA 717 and Hypermike, go on ahead and pay more for a boring flight. Try Delta, they'll give you a boring one.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 1:46 am

You get what you pay for. What'd you expect on Southwest? You made the reservation, take responsibility for it. I almost never fly them because of the cattle car feeling and lack of amenities but I'm glad Southwest is there to provide a cheaper and reliable alternative.

As for delays, yesterday had major weather problems from the midwest to the east coast. What'd you expect? Get real, my friend. In what sort of dream world are you living?
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Jav
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:55 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 1:47 am



In refernce to CO's 737NG aircraft, if you include the 800 series, there are 95NG's aircraft on the CO property today.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 1:49 am

You get what you pay for. What'd you expect on Southwest? You made the reservation, take responsibility for it. I almost never fly them because of the cattle car feeling and lack of amenities but I'm glad Southwest is there to provide a cheaper and reliable alternative.

As for delays, yesterday had major weather problems from the midwest to the east coast. What'd you expect? Get real, my friend. In what sort of dream world are you living?
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Frontierman

Wed Mar 29, 2000 2:01 am

FrontierMan wrote:
-------------------------------
>>>I am so fed up with Southwest. I made dinner reservations at the Elk Tavern in Baltimore. The reservation was for 8:30. I was scheduled in SWA's fight plan to leave Cleveland Hopkins at 5:15. The plane arrived at 6:30. They didn't start boarding until 7:00. I arrived at BWI at 8:00.

Very sorry to hear that your experience wasn't a positive one. There are numerous variables that affect the on-time performance of an airline, and without the specifics of your flight, any guess of mine as to why your flight was late would be just that--only a guess. One thing I can tell you is that Cleveland is often prone to sporadic ATC delays, and if the aircraft making up your CLE-BWI flight was delayed on its flight *into* CLE, well, delays have a way of cascading.

>>>I've had it with their chronic delays.

A check of the DOT stats and SWA's historic rankings would seem to indicate that the record is pretty good.

>>>On the way back the plane was 45 minutes late. On the plane the pilots were wearing shorts. It seems to me that that airline is trying to take the dignity out of flying. They always lower the standard. I miss the days when airlines had good service, that you remembered.

The pilots do not wear shorts, and my guess is that this was someone other than a pilot. As far as the dignity being removed from flying, I'd assess that that's a result of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, and the industry's move towards (and the public's expectations of) value-oriented air transportation.

>>>I know that it was my fault for making dinner reservations. I guess you do get what you pay for, and what I paid for was a ticket for a seat in a plane. Nothing else. I didn't pay for an ontime arrival, or good service, that must cost extra.

I've gotta ask this--would you have honestly made the above statements if your reservations had been for, say, *9:30*, and you'd been able to make it there on-time?

>>>I don't know how an airline with such bad service can stay in business. I guess it's because of the low fares. Basically I got crap for service, lost dinner reservations, and an overall disappointment.

Again, DOT stats, and 29 years of history pretty much answer your questions. Again, sorry you have a had a personally bad experience.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

Wouldn't You Agree.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 2:03 am

Wouldn't you agree that with no weather problems, 2 hrs is more than enough time to get to a not far away restaurant. That even accounts for a minor delay. As for the wonderful Point to Point service. You try being told you can't get off the plane in Tulsa to get something to eat after you have been fed trail bologna and trail mix for 4 hours. I think that is rediculous. As for the sympathizers, the Comtinental Cleveland to BWI flight was on time for a 1 hr. flight time from 6 to 7. There that means there was no weather delay.
 
deltaagent
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 1999 6:06 am

Defending WN And Others

Wed Mar 29, 2000 2:26 am

There are three delays that I would gladly wait for, no matter what airline I was flying.

1. Weather.
One only has to look at the NTSB website to see how many accidents were caused by flying in borderline to unsafe weather conditions.

2. Maintenance.
I am married to a aircraft mechanic. I know they put their signature on the line everytime they fix something on a plane. I will gladly wait an extra one or two hours to make sure everything is just right.

3. ATC
No airline has control of when ATC orders a ground delay or closing of an airport. I support the measure that will disclose why a flight was delayed. That way the public will know not all delays are airline related.

I am glad the airline was thinking of your safety, when all you were thinking about was dinner.
 
shankly
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 3:09 am

This post is interesting reading for someone UK side of the pond.

The low budget revolution is also full steam ahead here with EasyJet, Ryanair, Buzz and Go. I use them because I know the deal - cheap ticket (in fact no ticket), no on board service, and no big customer relations dept. when it all goes tits up. Despite this, generally you can count on arriving safely and on time (I agree with you DeltaAgent)

If you don't like it, take a major (and a Platinum credit card)...

...Or may be start your own airline. Buy some old 707's, seat it out 2-2 all the way down the cabin, stick a bar in the back and get your lovely lady hostesses to call tea, coffee or milk... Hey presto, you've got the golden age of flying!!...and a bankrupt airline within 12 months.

L1011 - P F M
 
woxof
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:26 pm

FrontierMan

Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:15 am

I won't even argue most of the points you made as others have made them for me. As for the uniform comment, only OPNLGuy has mentioned it, and only as a part of his post.
I challenge you, no I beseech you to scan a picture and post it of a Southwest pilot wearing shorts. You can't do it, because ONE DOESN'T EXIST (while on the clock--plenty available at the beach).
I have jumped on WN at least 100+ times in the past seven years and have never found the crews to be anything other than professional and very capable. Don't know what you were looking at,,,maybe a F/A. The airline's safety is second to none.

Bottom line: You knew what WN was like before you bought the ticket. In the future, I suggest you look elsewhere as they aren't likely to change to suit your needs.
 
Guest

Way To Go Woxof

Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:37 am

Woxof, I don't know if there's an award out there to see who can slam SWA the most but it seems that way.

If I am correct, this whole silly topic started because someone happened to be inconvenienced by a delayed flight. Hey that's life, it happens, too much I'm afraid but it happens.

I could tell you horror stories of US Airways screw up with my family when we were trying to catch our connecting flight to Boston at their hub in Charlotte on our way back from a wedding in Jacksonville. Or on a United flight that was supposed to be going to Denver but ended up going to Colarado Springs. I won't bore you with the details but my point is that nothing is 100% perfect!
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:55 am

Hypermike wrote:
Southwest is one of the few who can take a delay and turn it around to recover a lot of time within just a few segments.
----------------------------------------------------
No, not really, Hypermike. Because of their patented 20 minute turns, Southwest carries the delay with them the whole day.

I have mixed feelings about Southwest. When I flew them MSY-IND-MDW, I boarded the aircraft and the pilots greeted us wearing those "swirly-eyed" glasses and Billy-bob teeth. We had an uneventful flight to IND. While we were on the ground, we saw the pilot pushing the garbage can down the aisle, and the F/As and pilots cleaning the airplane, something you won't see anywhere else. When we landed at MDW the pilots got an applause because of their expert landing. Funny announcements were made throughout. I noticed the difference between WN and NW when I walked over to the NW flight from MDW to MSP. On the NW plane, no funny announcements, service was nothing extra, no pilot announcements. Southwest does add energy to what they do, but I think I'll stick with the major carriers for most of my flights.
Create your own luck.
 
woxof
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:26 pm

WN

Wed Mar 29, 2000 7:22 am

NWA is more (if you wish to call it that) professional looking than the leather jackets, sometimes goofy looking ties, and jokes but the fact that the crews help push trash out the jetway (to me) illustrates the tremendous TEAMWORK everybody has at WN. I know...Not everybody, but the fact that you saw it, and other such "menial" tasks illustrates that the crewmembers don't think anything is beneath them and will work hard to get the AC out on time. And...Keep cost down!
I don't work for WN, but I do appreciate what they have done for the industry and the IMPACT they have on airfares in every market they enter. Are they the best? I don't know. What are you using to judge best?
Funny thing. I once took a quality class in college. A semester-long argument ensued over whether or not McDonalds had better quality than a fine French restaurant. Point is, in a big way, quality is delivering a product consistently as the customer expects. On WN, I expect to receive a fair price (if not the lowest), get there safely and on time, or close, and have a little fun in the process. They deliver every time for me.
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

Southwest Versus Spirit.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 7:56 am

I think you will all be surprised when you hear that Southwest's load factor was 69% for February. Spirit, another discount company reported a 75.9% load factor for september. Everyone talks about pilots telling jokes. On an Airtran flight the pilot got on the plane and gave a blues-style plan and introduction. SWA is the only airline that does that.
 
FuturePilot
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:19 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 8:23 am

Hey listen Frontierman. I have read every response to this whole topic. About the pilots wearin shorts, I think the airline industry is missing too much of that. Thats nothing to complain about man. So what if they wear shorts. Does that make the airline unsafe? Second, what do you expect from a cheap airline like Southwest. I mean if this whole topic was on TowerAir, thats a different story. Sorry all you TowerAir fans!! LOL. Anyhow, you paid the cheap fare, and you should have expected it. And all those people flying United and American, I really see no difference unless you are flying coast to coast. And if Southwest was as bad as some people say it is, why are they growing each and everyday. Why did Albany spend millions to upgrade there airport to lure Southwest? Hey it worked didnt it? You can say all the negative things you wanna say about them, but why complain when you spent the money. I am not hear to bash your complaints. But show me another airline that has had the success of Southwest and their growth. As for their aircraft, safety wise, they are the best in the industry. I believe they have the newest fleet out there. I would love to fly their new 737-700, hopefully soon. We can complain about this topic for days, but to make a long story short, you paid, so dont come in here bashing a great airline. I know you have your opinions, but hey, I would fly a SWA B737-200 over Jetblues new A320. Ill end it at that.
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: I Agree Trey.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 9:50 am

i agree, even though SWA fares are low for an airline, they are high for the service, i was also on a flight where the pilots were wearing shorts, my flight got delayed 30 minutes-because they were trying to find a "flying billboard" to make the flight but they didn't find it, they did not serve me anything on the flight, the flight attendants smelled like they had not taken a shower, i was real young when the days where also on a domestic flight, it was real nice. and i do not understand why SWA has soooooo many flagships, and i dont like the color scheme, i would give anything for SWA to shutdown
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: I Agree Trey.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 9:52 am

i agree, even though SWA fares are low for an airline, they are high for the service, i was also on a flight where the pilots were wearing shorts, my flight got delayed 30 minutes-because they were trying to find a "flying billboard" to make the flight but they didn't find it, they did not serve me anything on the flight, the flight attendants smelled like they had not taken a shower, i was real young when the days where also on a domestic flight, it was real nice. and i do not understand why SWA has soooooo many flagships, and i dont like the color scheme, i would give anything for SWA to shutdown. it is also a shame that SWA set one of the worst airline standards in the world and that many airlines are following such a bad airline such as SWA
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Purdue Arrow
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 10:16 am

I flew Southwest once, SFO-SAN. I know, as everyone like to point out, that it was my own choice to save $20 by flying Southwest instead of Reno or Shuttle by United (it was a full fare ticket), but it was not a pleasant travel experience. My two biggest complaints:

1 : Refusal to serve an adequate amount of beverage
The flight attendants on my flight took orders, then brought back cups of soda on a tray. They refused, even when I asked, to provide a whole can or a refill. I have never had an American/American Eagle flight attendant fail to provide an ample amount of Coke, and even the United flight attendant gave me an extra can after she yelled at me. The only airline with comparable beverage service is Northwest who, while polite and willing to give an ample number of cans, does not serve Coca-Cola products.

2: The lines, the lines, the lines!
Southwest makes you wait in worse lines than any other carrier I have dealt with; let me count the ways...
First: To check in at the ticket counter to check your bag(s)
Second: In the crazy long line at the gate to get a boarding priority number
Third: In the crazy mess of people trying to fight fight for a decent seat
Fourth: Steps two and three all over again in each of the four cities you had to stop in to get from your origination to your destination (Not a problem in my case, which was nonstop, but a huge issue when flying any distance).

Other airlines don't make it so bad... You check in your bags and get a boarding pass at the same time, eliminating the second step unless you want an upgrade or something. Also, since you have an assigned seat, there is no need to wait in the mob at the door... no matter how late you board you know you're going to have the same seat.
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 10:25 am

Well you have to admit the point to point to point service is absurd to keep an on time schedule. Running flights from coast to coast is absurd. That is what sunk Access Air. It is virtually impossible to stay on time especiaaly out of airports like SFO. It sets all the flights off down the line from point to point.
 
UNITED777ORD
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:54 am

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Wed Mar 29, 2000 11:00 am

Southwest treats its passengers like a herd of wild cattle when they go through their boarding process. Southwest needs to get a clue about boarding procedures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

An Observation..

Wed Mar 29, 2000 11:15 am

To Shankly: I haven't heard the phrase "when it all goes tits up". Must be one of those British things.....    

Isn't it interesting that whenever someone starts a Southwest thread it gets the most replies?? I think there was one a few months ago that ran past 100 replies. Love it or hate it, everyone has an opinion. How often do you hear that about say, United Airlines?

Love it or hate it, Herb & the gang have succeeded.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

RE: An Observation..

Wed Mar 29, 2000 11:44 am

Herb appreciates his loyal sheep here on this forum.
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

More Of What I Have To Say

Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:39 pm

i agree, the boarding proceedure is HORRIBLE, they think they can just pack everyone in there and prearranged seating is so much more easier because if you are making a connection and you are one of the last people to board, you get the seat that you booked, SWA-you find any open seats. and i do not understand why a flight attendant won't give you a refill, that is just horrible,on any airline they give you refills. plus the peanuts arent that good
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
FrontierMan
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

RE: More Of What I Have To Say

Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:11 am

I did not find their peanuts to be that good either. I like the honey roasted kind.
 
Guest

Shuttle BY UAL

Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:16 am

I'm not familar with SHUTTLE service in that part of the country. I'm sure it exists though. If it does, try it! You'll find it to be luxury flying compared to SWA. Pretty decent fares as well. But remember, you get what you pay for - pay alittle more for Ual and get better service. Pay a little less for SWA (or similar) and get alot less classy service.
Oh yeah, what happened to pilots wearing suits and ties as we do at UAL?! Wearing shorts is the fastest way I can think of to get fired at my company!
last thing - even if you find SHUTTLE'S service to be on par with SWA's, SHUTTLE issues SEAT CONFIRMATION CARDS - and that in itself is worth it's weight in gold!
 
Guest

Southwest Vs. JetBlue

Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:08 am

i have never had a bad experience with southwest. and i fly them all the time. the planes are clean, and they are one of the best in on time percentage. and why have 1st class type service on short flights? buy something at the airport w/ the $ u save, and bring it on the plane, they dont care. ive said this so much, its getting redundant. u just experienced ONE flight!

now, about jetBlue...it funny to me that we get a lot of comparasons to southwest, and yet people still seem to say,"how can jetBlue survive with the fares and service they have" and "they will never turn a profit" and "they will last 3 months tops". are we not giving people what they want? half of u want low fares, and the other complain about low fare carriers (like southwest) lack of service...i dont get it! We have low fares (our round trip walk up is less then the bigger airlines ONE WAY walk up) but we dont feed u either (sure we have bigger, leather seats, more leg room and TVs too..plug plug  )

if u all wanna pay $300 more per flight for a cold ham sandwich...go right ahead...

leave us low fare airlines alone please, we are busy making money...

BTW dont think we (jetBlue) will be flying to akron for a while (if at all) so get used to southwest...

brian
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:24 am

Hypermike, I can't agree with your original post more. For frequent flyers who need to make only short hops (1-stop at most), Southwest is *the* carrier that you want to use. Keep in mind that WN was not designed for people who want to cross the friggin Atlantic Ocean, rather it was made for those who wanted a low-fare flight with reasonable service across a medium distance. If you're going to use WN for transcontinental-length flights, you'll have to accept the fact that you're going to have 2-3 stops, or maybe even more. That's why I use USAirways or, more commonly, Delta, when I fly long-range. Sure, WN's boarding process is crap, but it's no worse than United's "Shuttle by United" operation along the west coast, which I've had the good fortune to only need once. You think two women making up some BS story about a bathroom problem is bad? Try having one make up a story about an intense fear of flying, and therefore needing a seat near the front so they can be the first off in case of trouble, then having *almost a dozen more* suddenly remember that they have the same problem, and all getting away with it! To make matters worse, Shuttle by UA numbers it flights consecutively- do you know how much confusion this causes when they're all going to the same place, and they're all delayed by the same problem? I couldn't tell if they were just reading it wrong or what? And when I found out the same flight on WN would've cost considerably less and been easier to handle, I was beyond incensed! My traveling companion was literally turning red in the face, especially when she threatened to switch to Southwest's flight, and the gate agent continually told us it would only be a few more minutes before we boarded.
So, my point is basically this. If you want a low-cost decent service flying experience for short hops, fly with WN. If you want to pay a lot more for the same quality of flights, feel free to go join up with UA or AA. Did I mention you'll probably be on an old DC-9/MD-80, or maybe 727, rather than a new 733/5/G. The absolute worst you'll get with WN is a 737-200; I'd rather not go into what UA Express and AA Eagle will put you on.
 
Purdue Arrow
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Thu Mar 30, 2000 9:39 am

What's so bad about what American Eagle will put you on? They fly only comfortable aircraft with flighta ttendants who serve beverages (unlike United Express). Also, American Eagle is rapidly replacing Saabs and ATRs with Embraer Regional Jets which are much more comfortable that WNs 737s and have better service. Also, you make it sound like AA is a guaranteed Super 80 and WN is a guaranteed NG... AA, however, is rapidly bringing new 738s online (2 per month), and they are nicer than Southwest's, too. Imagine, comfortable seats, more legroom, and A/V entertainment!

By the way... you may be under the mistaken impression that WN is cheaper than American, at least for walk up fares. That's not neccessarily true, though... some examples, based on a Travelocity search for Coach class, no restrictions, departing tonight (3/29/2000)...








RouteAmerican FareSouthwest Fare
SJC-SNA$93.50$93.50
SAN-SJC$106.50$106.50
LAX-LAS$89.50$89.50
SJC-LAS$109.50$109.50
SEA-RNO$121.50$121.50


Ooh, the savings. Bear in mind that these are all walk-up, last minute fares. They are also all markets in which both airlines offer nonstop service. On routes in which one offers nonstop service and the other does not, the one with nonstop service is less expensive. This is true where WN has nonstop flights (SAN-LAS, for example), as well as where AA has nonstop service (SAN-RNO, for example). For the same fare, I would much rather go with the confirmed seating and industry leading frequent flier program of American. Also, as a side note, some of the AA flights are operated by Reno planes, others are operated by 738s and 757s, so it's not all MD-80s, either.
 
ATL Traveller
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 2:30 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:01 pm

Airline food has such a reputation for being bad that comedians have a field day with it. They could fill a 30 minute act on bad airline food jokes. Jokes that we laugh at because, honestly, they're almost true.... but god-forbid we don't get that bad food when we fly. I fly Delta about twice a week. I rarely eat the food. I don't miss it.. and my ticket is paying for it. Flying Southwest? Bring a sandwich on the plane. You have that option. It'll probably be better than what the corporate guys offer in coach.

Southwest has more comfortable seats as well. I avoid Delta's 757s at all costs. There's no leg room. My knees are in my chest. Atlanta to San Diego (4 1/2 hours) damn near kills me.

For those that have a problem with Southwest's service and planes, try sitting in the back of a cramped Delta 727 with your cold SkyDeli bag breakfast. Now thats the way I love to fly. Yeah, right! You can have it.
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

To Purdue Arrow

Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:21 pm

I did the same type of comparo last year and posted it on another of the many Southwest threads...but I compared fares of longer distance flights. Same result. Not much savings if any.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Thu Mar 30, 2000 4:42 pm

While I lack the ability to make HTML charts, I do have the ability to point out where many of you are wrong.

Let's say my old Granny keels over down in Florida tomorrow and I've got to get down there pronto for the funeral. I make under $40K a year (I don't mind admitting it)
And let's assume for the sake of argument that I live in Washington D.C.
Let's compare the walk up fares shall we.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SWA: BWI-FLL Departing 3/30/00, returning 4/1/00---a FULLY REFUNDABLE $374.50

AA: BWI-MIA Departing 3/30/00, returning 4/1/00---a NON-REFUNDABLE $754.00

US: BWI-FLL Departing 3/30/00, returning 4/1/00--a NON-REFUNDABLE $403.00

CO: BWI-FLL Departing 3/30/00, returning 4/1/00--a NON-REFUNDABLE $1475.50

I won't even bother checking the fares from DCA/IAD for obvious reasons
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get the picture? FF miles be damned, if I want to get down to Florida without booking 2-3 months in advance then my choice is Herb and LUV. Why do you think USAirways is offering a comparable fare---because WN is killing them at their own hub, that's why. AA and CO, who can afford not to compete out of BWI can get away with higher prices, US cannot.

Arrow, your point about the SoCal service is moot. It is such a heavily inelastic market that if one airline charges even $1 higher it will lose almost all of its business. Since revenue is the same, SWA can pocket more of the profit than can AA. Furthermore, what's the difference between a 738 of AA and a 73G of SWA? Except that SWA operates more of the type. And with AA, the probability of being on a MD80 is HIGH, not that that is so terrible.
Snack service, don't make me laugh! Fewer than 5 of 10 AA flights "qualify" for that privilege of a disgusting dry sandwich---really not worth an extra $0.01, let alone an extra $10-15.

SWA fares are often comparable, granted. Did you ever consider that is because other airlines have to slash their fares to compete with LUV? Even if you don't fly SWA, you must admit that they have brought fares down across the board and that is no bad things. We aren't all frequent non-revs (Arrow) and some of us aren't CEO's. I don't fly SWA that often but it is nice to know it is there if I need to get away on short notice.
 
UNITED777ORD
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:54 am

RE: N-156

Fri Mar 31, 2000 12:50 am

Shuttle by United's boarding process is a whole lot better than Southwest's. United uses the WILMA boarding system. This allows passengers with window seats to board first, then passengers with middle seats, and finally passengers with aisle seats. This boarding process prevents passengers from climbing over others to get to their seats. Furthermore, seat assignments are given when Shuttle by United passengers check-in. Southwest issues seating assingments at the gate and that causes chaos. Shuttle by United passengers aren't treated like a bunch wild cattle at the ranch. Unfortunately, Southwest passengers are and that is why I will not fly Southwest.
 
ABQ757
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 1:06 pm

Baaaa!

Fri Mar 31, 2000 1:38 am

I am a Southwest fan, and i am glad to be one. Ok, i dont agree with the boarding process at all, but everything else is just dandy. Now Purdue Arrow, i dont know what you are saying about not getting any refills. On all of the 5 five flights i have been on, i have gotten seconds, and even thirds on the ABQ-MCO flight. And if you want to drink the whole time on the plane, then buy a 3 liter coke at the gas station before getting to the airport. And you want better food, pick up some ding dongs and ho-ho's too. When it comes down to going cross country on WN, I would still pick southwest. But if i were going to ONT, BUR, or Orange County, i would pick America West, because i dont like to stop 3 or 4 times, now that is ridiculous. Aircraft wise, thier planes are mostly new, except for the -200's, but even those are the newer ones fo the -200 batch. But like everyone else is saying, you get what you pay for, and if you dont like it, its called PICKING ANOTHER AIRLINE, try it, they just invented it the other day.
 
Purdue Arrow
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Fri Mar 31, 2000 1:39 am

Ok, you want to look at long range? How about this one... you can buy a last minute ticket on America West or USAirways for less than Southwest to go SAN-BWI today, while United offers the same fare as Southwest. I don't care in Southwest is the reason that the other carriers offer the low fare... the fact remains that you could fly a full service carrier for an equal or lesser fare than you can fly on Southwest.

As for the difference between an American 738 and a WN 73G, how about more comfortable seats on AA? How about the fact that, by the end of the year at least, most of the seats in American's 738s (12 rows out of 19) will have a seat pitch of at least 35"? How about the audio entertainment available on American's 738s, which is a big deal to some people (video isn't really going to make a difference on a flight this short, of course)? How about the Aadvantage miles that come from every seat in American's 738? Even if, for you, "FF miles be damned," many people collect them and would rather earn them than not. By the way, even if you're not on the 738 on the American flights, you are still going to get American service, American seats (once the Reno ones are replaced), and American pitch (by the end of the year). Why would you choose to fly WN when other airlines offer the same fare or lower?
 
Guest

RE: I Am Just Fed Up With Southwest.

Fri Mar 31, 2000 3:08 am

People, this doesn't have to be an arguement. I think we can agree that if you have a zero- or one-stop flight, then each person has to decide if the fare is worth the boarding hassle. A lot of majors serve only peanuts on the shorter legs as well, so no big difference. But if you have a longer journey with a number of stops and time is an issue, as it was for me in my Amen! post above, it stinks! WN makes possible trips that some passengers would not otherwise be able to make, which is great. And if you know to bring your own food, as I should have but didn't, it might be tolerable. But "tolerable" isn't often a word featured in airline marketing. Fans say, "Then take a major". Fine, I do. But my experience on the airline simply was not very positive, and at least I tried it before forming an opinion. That is how we learn. We try it, see if we like it, and if we do, we fly them again. If not, we don't. No big deal. As I think about it more, I wouldn't say that I'd never fly them again, as I did above. I guess I might, but I'd be pretty picky about the destination and # of stops. Some of you fans make some good points and, quite honestly, have softened my opinion of SW. It just kind of creeps me out how cultlike the whole thing is...