macc
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LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:23 am

just watched a docu on n-tv about a SQ flight from LAX to SIN. People boarded Friday evening and landed Sunday morning. Crazy thing due to the date line. the flight takes 18 hrs, and i read the flight from SIN to JFK takes 18,5 hrs. i just wonder if there are any other regular flights which take longer and which other airlines offer such long flights.
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pelican
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:26 am

No, there aren't any longer trips at the moment. This will probably change with the 772LR.

pelican

[Edited 2005-02-04 21:28:36]
 
goCOgo
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:32 am

Actually, the SIN-NYC flight is to EWR, not JFK. Sorry, I'm a stickler for details.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:32 am

For one thing, no airline flies SIN-JFK nonstop.



The only longer flight that was ever planned was TPE-PTY nonstop by BR, under heavy subsidy by the Evergreen Aviation & Technology Group. Considering current changes in their C-market aircraft delivery schedule, I sincerely doubt BR will ever fly this route.
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ozglobal
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:41 am

People boarded Friday evening and landed Sunday morning.

Whilst the above is the longest current non-stop flight, I have often flown on a single flight number CDG or LHR - Oz (MEL or SYD) being around 24 hours and 10 time zones and with only a one hour stop in SIN. For an evening departure from Europe, timetables have always shown arrival time in Oz as, e.g. 0700 D+2, i.e. AM two days later. JFK - SYD is also a single flt number, I believe.
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GuyBetsy1
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:52 am

It's not to say that there aren't any longer flights or airlines that could fly them, but rather on whether there is such a market for these flights.

SQ has always been an innovator to initiate 'firsts'. First airline to fly nonstop FROM SINGAPORE to LAX, first airline to fly nonstop to EWR. There is traffic between SIN and those cities. Other airlines may not be able to boost that kind of excitement.

The only other airline which may compete with SQ for attention is probably EK.
So unless they try something that is going to rival SQ for distance, ie DXB-LAX or DXB-AKL nonstop, non one else can step in any fill those shoes. Okay... maybe DXB-HNL perhaps flying either direction?

Not unless QF might want to try to fly SYD-JFK nonstop.

[Edited 2005-02-04 22:05:38]

[Edited 2005-02-04 22:06:42]
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:01 am

First airline to fly nonstop to LAX, first airline to fly nonstop to EWR.

...er, in the C-market.

Hardly would say SQ was the first airline to fly nonstop to either airport, or even the first airline to fly nonstop across the pacific to either  Big grin



rival SQ for distance, ie DXB-LAX or DXB-AKL nonstop

Neither one of those comes anywhere near SQ's New York flight's distance.
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leelaw
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:13 am

When I took the inaugural LAX-SIN service in Feb. '04 SQ billed it as "World's Longest Nonstop Service."

Is TG's new Bangkok-N.Y. service slightly longer than SQ's service to EWR?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:17 am

Is TG's new Bangkok-N.Y. service slightly longer than SQ's service to EWR?

Nope, SQ's service is still nearly 900mi longer via the GC alone.
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lyzzard
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:14 am

Given the current jet stream and weather conditions over the north pacific, current LAX-SIN flights are averaging 19 hours in flight time alone... I'll be boarding SQ19 tonight, guess I'd better plan to watch 6 of 7 full length movies.
 
zvezda
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:55 am

The advent of the B777-200LR will almost surely mean longer flights -- possibly even SYD-LHR.
 
StarAC17
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:58 am

With all these long range flights occuring why hasn't any airline tried to fly SYD-JFK non-stop. methinks Qantas should look into the 772LR to pull this off.
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airxliban
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:58 am

methinks Qantas should look into the 772LR to pull this off.

If they wanted to go for a route with the 772LR LHR-SYD comes to mind.

In any event, haven't QF already stated that they are not interested in a C-market aircraft?
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CORULEZ05
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:02 am

I dont know about you guys but I dont see how anyone wants to be on an airplane, regardless of how nice it is, for THAT LONG! I love flying but 18 hrs? No way. While flying non-stop is nice and convenient, 18 hrs is a bit much if you ask me.
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zvezda
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:27 pm

One of the nice things about an 18-20 hour flight is that there is plenty of time to sleep -- when you're ready to. Fully enclosed bunks would help a lot.
 
Udo
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:36 pm

The advent of the B777-200LR will almost surely mean longer flights -- possibly even SYD-LHR.

No way to do SYD-LHR nonstop...unless you drop all cargo and leave the cabin half empty.  Insane
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QANTAS077
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:58 pm

Syd-Lhr nonstop is impossible with passengers n cargo, it's close to 18000ks and the only plane ever to do it was VH-OJA in late 1989 with no pax or cargo and this was Lhr-Syd, just a specially made fuel and tech crew, that flight took close to 21hrs, there is no concievable way that it could operate in the reverse direction.

Per-Lhr and VV would be possible to achieve nonstop, not sure if QF will ever operate it though. as for long flights, Qantas 94 from LAX-MEL on a bad day can take well over 16hrs, i know, i've had the misfortune of being on it.
 
macc
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:27 pm

flight time with SQ: in the docu they mentioned a freaking IFE. PTVs of course but with a huge selectgion of movies. (all 3 matrix, e.g....) Video on demand. thats surely a great thing.

is there any website where flight distances can be calculated? i have no idea about distances...

and by the way, anyone can tell me whats C-market means?
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zvezda
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:42 pm

Udo wrote:
"No way to do SYD-LHR nonstop...unless you drop all cargo and leave the cabin half empty."

Cargo would be very limited at times, depending on the weather, but a full complement of passengers in a premium configuration would not be a problem.
 
geoffm
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:56 pm

Macc, here's the distance calculator that most people prefer:
http://gc.kls2.com/ - Great Circle Mapper

Geoff M.
 
VS045
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:01 pm

Ait Tahiti Nui has wanted to do PPT-CDG non-stop for a while now but need airbus to increase the MTOW for the route to possible/profitable. That would surely be the longest route in the world!?! I don't know how suitable the 772LR would be for that route, regarding their current fleet, ETOPS etc.

Cheers,
VS045

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Udo
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:01 pm

Cargo would be very limited at times, depending on the weather, but a full complement of passengers in a premium configuration would not be a problem.

What kind of premium configuration? 20 extra light First Class seats? And cargo would be limited to a small box of feathers...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
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highflier92660
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:34 am

Certainly LHR-SYD at a distance of 10,573 miles would be the ultimate long distance city pairing, but at this time the old Kangaroo route is beyond the practical range of any now flying, even the upcoming 772LR. In time, an aircraft like the A380 could evolve into a legitimate London to Sydney passenger jet. Then we all would be screaming for another Mach 2 plus supersonic jet to make that interminable flight a bit shorter.
 
macc
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:56 am

thanks for the link, Geoffm!

anyone knows which range the 787 or 350 will have?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:13 am

Cargo would be very limited at times, depending on the weather, but a full complement of passengers in a premium configuration would not be a problem.

...except for the yield maintenance on your mixed-configuration flights on that route.



That would surely be the longest route in the world!?!

If operated, yes it would.
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Sabena332
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:34 am

anyone knows which range the 787 or 350 will have?

I found this:

A 350-800: 15.900 km/242.000 kg MTOW
A 350-900: 13.900 km/242.000 kg MTOW

B 787-3: 6.500 km/? kg MTOW
B 787-8: 15.700 km/218.000 kg MTOW
B 787-9: 15.400 km/227.000 kg MTOW

Source: Aero International Magazine, February issue

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karan69
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:36 am

An Air India official once said that they were looking at possibilities of
BOM-LAX and DEL-JFK/ORD --
Laugh all you want guys but as they say "in Air India anything is possible"
 
zvezda
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:49 am

I'm thinking about 200 seats. On days with particularly bad headwinds, they might have to go out with some empty seats. There is pressure on Boeing to make this work. If the B777-200LR can fly SYD-LHR, then BA, QF, and VS will all need to order it.

Highflier92660, why do you think the A380 has greater range than the B777-200LR?

Also, AKL-LHR is probably the greatest distance between cities with enough traffic to justify nonstop service. I just don't see either Boeing or Airbus developing an aircraft with such range just to sell a few. Are there any other city pairs with significant traffic that are farther than SYD-LHR?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:54 am

why do you think the A380 has greater range than the B777-200LR

There is speculation that a shrunken A380 with auxillary tankage would have greater range than the twinjet. Economics however, could be a totally different story.



Are there any other city pairs with significant traffic that are farther than SYD-LHR?

NRT-GRU is probably the most significant example.
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macc
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:33 am

that means, at the moment, the 355 has the longest range with 15700km, with the T7LR competing for 16400km.

is this range difference thus significant for airlines and wont there be a possibility for airbus to increase the range of its 355 for 800km?

and again: how are the a, b, c markets defined? i am ignorant of this terms.
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Rj111
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:51 am

What about GRU-SIN? Any market there?.....i guess not, scene as they dont even operate a 1 stop service.
 
macc
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:23 am

the longest possible route i found at the cricle mapper seems to be EZE-ICN with 19483 km. PEK to EZE is slightly behind with 19285. that is interesting as china and argentina strenghened their economical ties. anyone knows if they have direct flights and if which place they would stop?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:53 am

and again: how are the a, b, c markets defined?

Though the numbers are actually more detailed, if you want a general idea:

A market = 5000nm or less
B market = 5000nm - 8000nm
C market = 8000nm or more
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leelaw
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:28 pm

"While flying non-stop is nice and convenient, 18 hrs is a bit much if you ask me."

Having done both the LAX & EWR/SIN flights in premium economy (or whatever it's called, the cabin is 2-3-2), IMO, it's tolerable if the IFE is good or you've got an IPOD. The "on demand snacks" SQ offers help as well. IMO, it also beats milling about some transit airport hauling around your carry-on items.

SQ has been operating LAX/SIN for a year now, how have the loads been?
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TAP340
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:14 am

LIS-AKL if ever operated  Laugh out loud would be longer than GRU-NRT by more than 1000Km
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:19 am

Most of you seemed to miss the latter part of the original request:

Are there any other city pairs with significant traffic
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aerorobnz
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:27 am

TapA340, That sounds like the longest leg to me. Spain/Portugal is supposed to be directly on the other side of the world from NZ. in terms of latitude.

[Edited 2005-02-06 22:29:31]
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ozglobal
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:02 am


Oz-LHR, at around 18,000 km is close enough to the others mentioned, but has very SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC. If you add QF, BQ, CX, SQ, TG, EK, CZ and others, there must be through traffic of around 50 - 60 or more 744's and 777's weekly!! So if you want to talk about the evolution of very long haul, analyse the Kangaroo route. Personally, I think we'll see the travel time maintained at around 23hours, with a 1 - 1.5 hr stopover in Asia for health and maintenance of both equipment and passengers (good time to take a quick shower and go for a walk; if you're really organized, you can get in a swim on the roof pool at SIN).
The improvements will be in long haul passenger comfort. People who never travel more than about 10hrs (most Americans and some Europeans) can't relate to the real need for more space and comfort. This is were the A380 and other wide bodies with more generous cabins will become more important. e.g. wider Y class seats, proper lie-flat J and cabins in F, as well as space to get up and stretch your legs. Everyone does this latter already on Kangaroo route 744 flights.
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danialanwar
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:43 pm

I dont think that there are many routes longer than EWR-SIN with significant high-yield traffic apart from the Kangaroo route, Oz-NYC and maybe South America to Japan.
SIN (01°21'21"N 103°59'15"E) EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) 8285 nm
SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) 9188 nm
SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) 8629 nm
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 9984 nm

The A345 and I guess the 772LR cannot make these routes profitable, and I dont see it being economical to develop a new type of airplane just to ply these handful of routes. Unless of course it comes in a different form, e.g. making LHR-SYD in 2 hours or so but I'll have to be reincarnated twice before that happens.

Furthermore, time savings on each route are limited
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jacobin777
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:10 pm

Leelaw.....I've flown JFK-DXB-JFK route on EK's 345.....while its not the longest route in the world (5951 nm according to Great Circle Mapper), the DXB-JFK route was over 15 hours (I think it was 15 hrs 10 minutes, with a 6 hour delay at DXB to top it off). Unfortunately, I flew cattle class...and let me tell you...it SUCKED..even with my laptop and EK's awesome "ICE" IFE system....the flight itself was good, but the window seats with the IFE system box on the side made the flight tough...!!!
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zvezda
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:28 pm

Danialanwar, was there a reason for excluding MEL-LHR and AKL-LHR from your list? Certainly, MEL-LHR has sufficient traffic to be commercially interesting. I would think that AKL probably would too.
 
danialanwar
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:37 pm

Zvezda,

Didnt mean to exclude MEL-LHR (covered it under the Kangaroo route), but only gave the distance example for SYD-LHR (MEL-LHR aint that different). IF SYD-LHR is made possible, then the airlines will surely also look into MEL-LHR.

As to AKL, I am not sure. As it is, BA finds it more efficient to codeshare with QF going there. I would think if it were economically viable to fly the route by themselves, then I'm sure they would do so rather than codeshare. I have no clue as to first/business demand for the LHR to AKL run. But it sure would be a nice one
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aaflt1871
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:41 pm

10,249 miles is the longest non stop flight I have ever taken. Back in my Marine Corps days in the late 90's on a U.S.A.F C-17 from SYD to FRA with several air to air refuelings along the way. Try riding that out on a cargo plane with 80 other jar heads with ya!!! No IFE or PTV's  Smile
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aerorobnz
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RE: LAX - SIN, SIN - JFK: Any Longer Trips?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:32 pm

BA don't come here to AKL basically because they would only be doubling up flights on exactly the same routes as QF flies, which doesn't make economic sense for airlines that are so close. We have generally enough traffic to justify a maximum of two airlines per direct longhaul route. SIN NZ/SQ, HKG CX/NZ, LAX QF/NZ etc.
In terms of first class, there are a few carriers operate 3 class configs through AKL and do quite well out of it at most times of the year. Biz & First can often be packed, but Y can be half empty.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.