ATLFlyer323
Topic Author
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:12 am

Heres the link:

http://www.forbes.com/business/commerce/feeds/ap/2005/02/02/ap1799773.html

feedback, do you think that anybodies going to do it, and do you think the airline will survive??

Thanks,
Brandon Makrides (Yaaaa go Greece)
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
 
ozglobal
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:56 am

I hope someone does something to Olympic. Greece needs a decent airline and Olympic ain't one in good shape!

To illustrate, I once discussed with our coporate travel manager the fact that EgyptAir had very cheap fares Oz - Europe, but added that I wouldn't feel safe on that carrier. Her reply was, "l'd fly Egypt before I'd fly OLYMPIC!!!"

Say no more...

[Edited 2005-02-04 22:57:59]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
iakobos
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:57 am

http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.print_unique?e=C&f=13109&m=A16&aa=1&eidos=S
This is a better one.
Note that the tender is officially not open yet, in other words, a sufficient number of serious bidders has not been found yet, or perhaps none at all.
 
Chiguire
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:02 am

I have a 20 year old sofa... maybe I can find someone who buys it...
 
amirs
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:08 am

They should learn from El AL, First step hire Mckinsey for consulting and reorganizing.

 
ATLhomeCMH
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Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:31 am

to privatization then einai kala. ospou na pethano tha to fonazo.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olyimpic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:36 am

feedback, do you think that anybodies going to do it, and do you think the airline will survive??

As for Olympic ever being privatized, it will probably be another "Alitalia" -- where stated intentions are confused with concrete action. Which is why Alitalia remains a non-privatized basket case 5 years after it was to have been privatized. I can easily see the same happening with Olympic. The airline will survive as long as someone, namely the Greek government, remains willing to prop up Olympic with state aid and continues to find ways to circumvent supposed EU prohibitions against such subsidies.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:24 am

Didn't BA try to do something with OA, only to pull out after realizing it was a hopeless money pit?

Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
air2gxs
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:07 am

ATL, why is privitization not a good idea?

I've flown Olympic many times and I never know which airline I'm going to be traveling with. Will it be the Olympic with that leaves late with crappy service? Will it leave ontime, with fair service? Will some of the employees randomly strike?

At least if they are owned by some private entity, they may get consistent.
 
SNATH
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:13 am

I'm Greek too and I can't even remember a time when the Greek government was not trying to privatise Olympic. Well, good luck to them.

"l'd fly Egypt before I'd fly OLYMPIC!!!"

This is total crap. The Olympic safety record is, in fact, very good. Their service and punctuality is another matter... but it's unfair to bash their safety record based on that.

Tony

[Edited 2005-02-05 03:16:02]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:16 am

I seem to think that it wont go under. As a greek I know that they tend to hold there..well anything very high up. I dont know if they would let there countries airline fail, thats just not greek to me.

thanks,
Brandon Makrides (yaaaa go Geece)
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
olympicbis
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:02 pm

" I'd fly Egypt before I'd fly Olympic"
As far as safety is concerned, just tell your coporate travel manager to better document herself about the number of crashes Egyptair has suffered compared to Olympic before she makes up her mind... We all know about the bad service one can sometimes experience on Olympic - and which I did too, which is why I do not fly them anymore. But as far as safety is concerned, Olympic performs as well if not better than any other established European carrier, including Air France, my dear OzGlobal..... Their technical Department is worldwide known for its quality, has any certification you may want to have and services many other airlines.
 
dc10tim
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:05 pm

OzarkD9S,

I was thinking the same when I read this thread.

Here is a link to what I've found.

http://www.brescom.clara.net/Documents/Ba_Olympic.mht

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
iakobos
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:12 pm

OzGlobal,

That's simply a very poor and unjust call.
If there is something at Olympic, old or new, that has consistently worked very well, it is precisely Olympic Technics.
In terms of a/c maintenance their record is among the very best.

Give credit where it is due.

....and I am not Greek...
 
ozglobal
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:15 pm

I once discussed with our coporate travel manager the fact that EgyptAir had very cheap fares Oz - Europe, but added that I wouldn't feel safe on that carrier. Her reply was, "l'd fly Egypt before I'd fly OLYMPIC!!!"

She didn't clarify her specific reasons, but I assumed it was 'all factors considered'. I can see why you thought I was targeting safety, but her comment was on overall quality of service I should think.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
toltommy
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:44 am

Didn't the union groups oppose this in the past, and get the government to withdraw from previous plans to privatise? I believe when BA was kicking the tires, they realized there would be a lot of job cuts. OA employees didn't like the thought of losing their jobs, even if the airline was overstaffed. Better to remain a government employee.
 
SNATH
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:00 am

Concerning OA and BA: I believe BA also made some "interesting" calls too, i.e. wanting to off-load some of their old B757s to OA, apparently without a feasibility study. So, despite the fact that I'm no fan of OA's unions, they did have some valid complaints about BA's involvement.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
swisswings
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RE: Greece Trying To Privatized Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:45 am

Frankly speaking, I think that the times of Olympic are gone. It is astonishing to see how many European airlines of poor quality and customer service are still flying today thanks to the aid of their own government while others went out of service despite of high quality but because of poor management.
Maybe the Greeks, as other Europeans, e.g. the Swiss, will have to start thinking of a time without a "flag carrier". They will survive. I prefer this to a situation where a flag carrier with bad service and reputation is kept alive with tax payer's money that could be better invested. Yassu, Olympic.
 
BCAL
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:08 am

One wonders why Stelios has not yet created a new Greek airline like easyOlympic. He has the resources, the experience and contacts.

MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
ramerinianair
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:47 am

I am no expert in this field but, it seems that Alitalia and OA have similar problems. I think they need to keep it state oriented so that they can pass legislature to keep the unions in check/ keep them from getting to empowered.
.SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
babybus
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:59 am

Olympic is run like a bad middle east airline. The management is all gov't senecures and the rest of the positions are jobs for mates and mates of mates only. Apparently you have to know someone in the compny before you can get a job.

You can't privatize Olympic, it would destroy the social fabric of the country.

It should be amalgamated into MEA, EL AL, Yemenia, Saudia or Iran Air where it could operate in the same way that it does now, within the same corporate culture.

It has a significant role but it ain't an airline that belongs in Europe.

and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:26 am

BCAL:

Regarding Stelios: Think of the fun you could have marketing an airline called easyGreece!
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
iakobos
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:04 am

Update as of Feb 4, 2005

During the (extended) pre-tender period, 24 information packs have been (requested and) sent out by the advisors, Lazard Freres.
Over 20 firms have actually taken a look at what is on offer.
Out of these, it is expected that between 6 and 8 will actually bid.
These are Greek and Europeans firms and in all probability one US player.

For sure, Aegean Airlines will be one of the bidders (...and a strong one).
Who is the (probable) US one ? could be Chrysler Aviation, the charter company led by Greek/US Stelios Rapis, which was a previous bidder, but not sure.

Initial bids are due by Feb 9.
After the list has been issued in the very next days, the contenders will be invited to have a (good) look at the books. (Good luck guys !)
How many committed parties will remain after that ? my guess: 3 or 4.

One big uncertainty several months down the road is who will be liable for the fine that the EU will likely impose ? the airline of the Greek State ?

In any case, the (center-right) Greek government hopes to wrap-up the sell off by end of April.
 
leelaw
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:18 am

"One big uncertainty several months down the road is who will be liable for the fine that the EU will likely impose ? the airline of the Greek State ?"

IMO, the Greek Government (Seller) will have to assume this contingent liability if they want to complete the sell off by the end of April.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
trintocan
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:08 am

A very interesting topic. It seems as though Greece is facing the same sort of problems with OA that the Caribbean nations have had with their respective airlines (BW and JM, also DCA of Curacao and Air Aruba). The countries are all trying to hold on to patrimony and pride with the airlines but they proceed to lose lots of money in doing so. Witness the renewed State involvement in both JM and BW now. Could the same thing also happen to OA if it floundered once privatized? Then of course the Greek Government could be fined by the EU - a no-win situation. There is no similar body in the Caribbean to penalize Governments who offer aid packages to their airlines.

The trouble is, the geography of Greece makes it essential that air links are kept active - with so many islands scattered over a large area the need to keep business, tourism and ordinary peoples' lives going mandates an airline policy which may be different from, say, Germany or Austria, which are essentially fully contiguous entities.

BTW, Stelios of easyjet is Cypriot, not Greek, if I remember correctly.

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
iakobos
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:21 am

Leelaw, yes and no, the money went in the coffers of OA.
Since the EU ruling will be announced later than the expected sell off, it remains a question mark which will not comfort prospective buyers.

Yes, air links in Greece are not only about making business, the islands' communities have to be deserved, though I am quite sure that this is something that falls under a different chapter and that State subsidies (or even EU subsidies) are perfectly justified and non-questionable.
 
mika10021
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:21 am

Trintocan,

Stelios is Greek but his parents are Cypriot.He was born in Athens.

FYI, Stelios wouldn't have an airline in Greece unless it's a base for easyJet or the new airline he is rumored to start easyAtlantic.
 
trintocan
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:54 am

Mika10021, thanks for that. In any case even if Stelios were solely Cypriot he would have no problem setting up shop in Greece as Cyprus is now an EU member country. I only remembered that after posting the message.

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:43 am

I've flown on OA a few times in my day, (granted not since they picked up the 340s), and they're really not that bad. I hear their unions are too powerful and demanding and that the staff are lazy, but I really can't say I've had any worse experiences with OA over any other airline, (aside from the big, hairy lady who kept pinching my cheeks when I was little).

As a half-Greek myself, I would very much like to see a Greek airline to be proud of. Perhaps one day I can say the same about AC.....(kidding!!!!)

....and yes, nomizo privatization einai kala.

G
 
0A340
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:49 pm

Let's face the facts:

30-years state management has not run a SINGLE year with operating profit.
Cummulative losses can be compared in size with the cost of building the new ATH airport!!!

30-years state management has NOT expanded the airline at all: in the 70's OA had 2x 747+ 8x 720 + 6x 707 + 6x 727 = 22 owned jets. 30 years later OA has 4x 343 + 2x A300 + 7x 737 = 13 owned jets + 7x 737 + 3x 717 = 23 operating jets. It is riduculus that over the same period that most major EU airlines (LH, IB, AZ, AF, BA...) have more than doubled their fleet size, engaged in alliances, etc etc, the state management has -in real terms- provided negative growth!

30-years state management has been defended to the last drop of blood by whom? The UNIONS, the POLITICAL PARTIES, at the EXPENSE of the GREEK TAXPAYER.

ENOUGH!!!!



 
iakobos
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:07 am

Thanks for your compassion 0A340, I could just argue about one thing since I pay my share also though I am not Greek:
"at the EXPENSE of the TAX CONTRIBUTORS IN GREECE"  Big grin

By the way, the locals could be proud of at least one airline, Aegean.
It is good, organized, reliable, customer oriented.
The fact is it does not have (and probably never will) the history and especially the aura of the airline started by the short but great Aristotle Onassis, and of course between the 60's and now almost every family in Greece have had at least one member who worked for the behemoth.

With "only" 1,650 staff (the airline part) and fully knowing that their situation has passed the point of no return a couple of years ago, unions are no longer a party in discussions.
The obstacle (to a sell off) is in the accounting books.
 
0A340
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RE: Greece Trying To Privitize Olympic

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:48 pm

If there is a will, there is a way. I don't think that a privatisation that has to be made will not materialize because of short-term 'political cost' calculations.
Severe illness is only cured with proper medicine, not headache removers.

So, unions, accounting books, all these are obstacles in front of the way, but they are also byproducts of the problem itself. We should never allow the problem itself bock the cure that it needs.

George