junior1970
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Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:29 am

Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but I am not asking when NW is going to retire their DC-10's, but I would like to know why NW decided to keep the DC-10 in service this long ?
Was it because there was no money to get a replacement ? Was it because NW didn't find a suitable replacement ? Was it because used DC-10's are pretty cheap and easy to get at a certain point in history ?

This question also goes for the DC-9 and B742 by the way..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Thoughts please...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
NWDC10
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:39 am

Basically the a/c are very good quality and they are already paid for. Robert NWDC10
 
starrion
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:41 am

The answer is pretty simple too. They own them all outright, they still work pretty well and they make money for Northwest.

Northwest has a reputation for maintaining aircraft well and squeezing every moment of operational life out of their equipment. That's why NW isn't on the verge of bankruptcy.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
Newark777
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:43 am

Why would NW get rid of their DC-10's if they are in good working order, and there is still a need for them on certain routes? NW will use their planes to the limit of their lifespans, as you can see with the DC-9's.  Big grin

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
jcavinato
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:51 am

Yeah, but I've been in business class on them a lot of late, and there are a lot of torn seats, recliners that don't recline, seat pouches hanging loose from being pulled/tugged too much. You know, pretty much like fraternity house basement furniture.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:48 am

and probably a few other asian airlines fly to New York from LHR.

Those Asian airlines being AI and KU
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:51 am

why NW decided to keep the DC-10 in service this long ?

Four words,

Bought and paid for

No finance to speak of, plus they are not that old. Those NW DC-10s are late production examples. It's the same as their DC-9 fleet, they are in good mechanical condition and there isn't a huge finance penalty on their balance sheet.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Carpethead
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:38 am

You can ask the same question to JL but they are slowly retiring them similar to NW. For JL they will be all gone in fiscal 2005.
 
NWDC10
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:47 am

I could fly around the world in a DC-10. A "Private Jet" to me. Robert NWDC10
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:55 am

I'm sorry but I think it is time NW gets with the program and gets completely rid of those old planes. I love the DC-10 but their time is up and there is new and better technology becoming available. I mean, just have to look at all the other airlines who, at one time, operated older jets and they have all upgraded. For example, Delta and their MD-11..........but Hey, I'm not the CEO of NW and therefore I guess we'll be watching those old geysers for awhile.....BTW, this is my first post ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:56 am

Airgeek12:
"But still.. DC-10 + 9 hrs + me = not happening"

Spoken like a true teenager, no offense, but have you flown on a DC-10? I bet when they are all withdrawn, we will hear the youngsters of a-net bemoaning the fact that they never got to fly on one.

Edit: typo





[Edited 2005-02-05 03:00:32]
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NWDC10
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00 am

Just like i never got to fly in a 727-200. It is also one of my fav a/c but i love the DC-10 the best. Robert NWDC10
 
USAF757300
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:04 am

CORULEZ05:

why fix something thats not broken? just because "new technology" is becoming availible doesnt mean that, for example the A330, or 767 is a better aircraft than the DC-10 does it?
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:05 am

@DTW Clipper.....us "youngsters" appreciate the new technology and not to mention how much SAFER these new planes are. So, I can personally say I won't feel sorry for not flying on one...btw, I said I loved the DC-10....appearance wise, have not and WILL not fly on one...give me a CO 772 anytime instead........
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:08 am

@USAF....not Broken? How many times have their been instances where DC-10 have had serious mechanical problems....not Lately BUT not too long ago it happened....and There were several instances. Honestly, just common sense......why Not replace something that is OLD before something really bad goes wrong?.......its All about keeping our sky safe!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:09 am

~"not to mention how much SAFER these new planes are"~

 Laugh out loud

Can anyone find the BS in that statement?


So you said that you will refuse to fly on a DC10 if it was at your gate?


Welcome to the forum, kid..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:11 am

CORULEZ05:

Don't agree with you....when I was a youngster I would have given anything to ride on an Electra, Connie, DC-7, Convair 880, or Caravelle, even though the latest thing was the DC-10, 747 & L1011.

I think part of being a a-nutter is to want to fly on everything you can get on whilst they are still in mainline service.

I have flown on all the modern 777's A340, 330, etc, but I have at least flown the early jets like the 727-100, BAC 111's Convair 240's, 707's, and that is something that you just can't take away!



[Edited 2005-02-05 03:13:53]
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CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:13 am

@MD11....yes, I would change my flight if I saw a DC-10 at my gate. I have been known for doing such a thing when I board a plane and well it looks like it has been around for awhile. I guess I just want that reassurance that a newer plane gives me!.......and thanks for the welcome!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:16 am

I guess I just want that reassurance that a newer plane gives me

What a bunch of BS! Do you really think that NW would launch a plane across the atlantic that was unsafe!

And by the way, the NW DC-10's that I have been on have all been in great shape in BIZ, and those old F/C sleeper seats were better than a lot of the Biz class seats that are out there!
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whitehatter
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:18 am

CORULEZ05

That plane, a DC-10, has had a C or D check within the last 4 years or so. At that check it was pronounced by certified engineers as being as good or better than any equivalent aircraft which has rolled off the production line in Tolouse, Hamburg or Seattle in the past 24 hours.

So at the absolute maximum between checks it is as safe as a 4 year old aircraft.

Those same engineers have certified that same Airbus or Boeing as safe to fly. So your statement is just flat out wrong.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:19 am

~" have been known for doing such a thing when I board a plane and well it looks like it has been around for awhile"~


..and how do you feel when you hear that the plane you refused to fly on safely made it to its destination.. and you changed your plans for nothing?

Reassurance isn't a bad thing. We all like that.

BTW.. The DC10 was 'newer' when it was having all those accidents..  Big grin

"Aircraft are like fine wine. They get better with age."
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:20 am

Oh yea, they clear the aircraft to fly so then why have those engine fires happened shortly after take off not too long ago????? Someone not doing their job perhaps?
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:22 am

@MD-11....VERY HAPPY of course...those pax made it to their destination safely. DUH!........its just a personal preference for me...the newer, the BETTER!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
AMSSFO
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:24 am

When well maintained (as with all NWA planes) a 25 year old DC10 will not have any more problems than a 1 year old A330.
I flew NW D10 a month ago and it was a nice uneventful flight. OK, the IFE is not very modern, but at least it is large screen  Laugh out loud
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:25 am

Oh, dear! How many issues have we had with the the new A330's? A number.

777 has had it's share. How about:

Tuesday, January 6, 2004: A Continental Airlines jet with 294 people on board made an emergency landing at Midway Atoll's Sand Island airfield early today, apparently after suffering an oil pressure problem in one of its engines.


"Someone not doing their job perhaps"

If the A/C is in mainline service, with a major Airline, you can bet that that ship is in great shape. I would have an issue getting on board a brand new A320 with some small third world charter co. (no ofense to any members of the 3 world, just needed an example)!


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CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:27 am

that is ONE instance and nothing as serious as a freaking engine fire!
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CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:28 am

Add on @AMS....my point exactly. You fly a DC-10 and you get outdated Sh**T.......and I'm sorry but you pay the same amount of money regardless of the plane so why not fly the best?....
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:31 am

There have been a number of issues, but that's not the point.

The issue is the safety of a "mainline" DC-10.

You are being rather silly with your beliefs that because it's old, it is unsafe.

Sure, it may be old, but it is still great shape.
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CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:33 am

Well I'm sorry but "a number of issues" is NOT acceptable if you ask me...I want to know that I am safe while in the air.......and I'm sure I am not the only person who enjoys having that feeling!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:36 am


Sure, it may be old, but it is still great shape.


And all the kinks and faults are long since worked out. If it's going to fail then it will have failed long ago, or have failed on another aircraft and been the subject of a bulletin.

Look at those ex-Eastern 757s for instance. Still flying, still working hard. Or the early BA examples now with DHL. The DC-10 is safer now than it has ever been just because of all that experience and number of hours operated.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
NWDC10
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:36 am

I'm not affraid to fly on an "older" a/c. I'd love to fly on the 727-200 but it looks like i never will. Robert NWDC10
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:36 am

All aircraft have had their issues.

Brand new ones, as well as older ones.

Your not making much of a point right now.
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CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:41 am

Good point DTW BUT don't forget that a lot of times it is a mental issue. What I mean by that is, people notice when a plane is older and start to feel "uneasy"....I'm sure they are ok planes, I mean they are flying daily and thank God getting people to their destinations safely.........I just would hate for a big disaster to happen and THEN they will retire them.....just want to keep the sky safer for everyone to enjoy!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
Jano
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:59 am

CORULEZ05

I bet that when most pax look at a newly painted DC10-30 in NWA colors they would no think that that DC10-30 is 17+ years old.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:01 pm

Don't need a whiz to know that a DC-10 is old.....
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m404
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:22 pm

Junior1970

Just so you know that as of last week NW ordered eight more 330s to complete the phaseout of DC10.

Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
MSPPHL
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:28 pm

Northwest is not ignorning the market at all. In January they annouced a fleet purchase of eight additional A330 a/c and Steeland said that in 2007 all trans-atlantic route DC-10s will be replaced with the A330. Deliveries of these are scheduled in 2006 and 2007. At that point NW will have 32 A330s in the fleet (mixed between the -200 and -300).
 
planespotting
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:35 pm

CORULEZ05

If you really knew jack sh*t about the DC-10 you would realize that the airframe is sound, the construction solid, and that it was one of the best airplanes to be manufactured in the 1960's. Although it was given a bad name, the fundamental problems were with the airlines flying them at the time. let us start the accident summaries:

First DC-10 fatal accident was the crash of Turkish Airlines Flight 981. An airline employee did not check the locking mechanism on the aft cargo door. The airplane was crusing at around 10,000 feet for the short flight from Orly-Gatwick, and was pressurized for sea level (large pressure differential). The cargo door exploded open and a few folks were sucked out, the hydraulic lines were severed and the airplane plunged into the ground, killing all on board. Obviously a bad start for the DC-10. But, if proper procedures had been followed, the airplane would not have crashed.

The second (and more memorable for people in the US) was AA 191. Most people know the details surrounding this crash, but to sum it up, AA (and most other airlines at the time) were using flawed maitenance procedures that were exacerbated by an out-of-gas forklift and a lack of an overnight shift in the engine shop. It was a good move to ground all DC-10's, because of the flawed maitenance procedures that were in practice at nearly every airline that flew the DC-10 (including CO).

The third crash involving the DC-10 was the Air New Zealand DC-10 that crashed into Mt Erebus in Antarctica. had nothing to do with the airworthiness of the aircraft.

The last but not least, and definitely the most memorable for kids our age (we were alive for this one, and i live in Iowa) was the Sioux City crash. This was caused by a flawed maitenance practice of United Airlines, in failure to detect a fatiguing engine disk. This crash brought human factors and crew resource management to the front page in the aviation industry. It also proved that a good airplane and a good, motivated and well trained crew could turn a helpless situation into something that people can (and did) walk away from.

The fact is the DC-10 had bad luck in the beginning, but it has proved to be a very reliable and very safe aircraft. There has not been a fatality on a major US airline that operates a DC-10 since Sioux City and it has been over 15 years since then.

It is okay to dislike the DC-10. But saying that it is an unsafe airplane and you fear for your life if you think you are going to fly in one is nothing but slander and is a pretty ignorant thing to say in a forum like this.

There is no logic whatsoever in saying that a newer airplane is safer. What about the Airbus that flew into the forest at the airshow? What about the CRJ that crashed in Michigan a few years ago....the list goes on.

An airplane is only as safe as the crew and support that is behind it.

edit: incidentally, Delta came very close to Chapter 11 and is in a bad financial stiatuion, despite their purchase of "newer" aircraft. Northwest has stayed afloat with their old jets and also without the help of a bail out from American Express. New jets cost money. Old jets that are paid off obviously don't. Doesn't take a genius (im sure you could even figure it out) that if you can get by with what you have and still run a safe and efficient airline then there is no reason to upgrade.

[Edited 2005-02-05 04:56:58]
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dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:38 pm

Well done Planespotting!

I have been trying to explain this to our new member, but have had no luck.

great post!

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MSPPHL
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:46 pm

I for one will miss the DC-10s at Northwest and as all things go, they will eventurally be replaced. I've been on the A330 DTW-AMS many times and I'm shocked at some of the wear from passengers already. I wonder what their cars look like. There would seem to a bit of a design flaw in the business class seatback pocket-- I see so many of them pulled out, the entire seat backing.

Remember, too, that the DC-10 crossing is slightly faster than the slower-rated A330. But financially, it is a cheaper ship to operate than that of the older DC-10.
 
mtnmanmakalu
Posts: 493
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:46 pm

Its great to see we have another "great" member to the forum with his antagonistic, uneducated statements who's only goal is to stir the pot....

Welcome, CORULZ05 (not really!)
 Sad
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:49 pm

I've had the "honor" of flying on 3 of UA's DC-10-30s before they were gone...in the middle of coach all 3 times, but it didn't seem much different than any other airplane. I got to my destination safely all 3 times (duh!), so I'm happy. And you have to love those gargantuan cockpit windows! Big grin

Frankly, if you know anything about running a business, you don't spend money on something that doesn't need to be fixed. Like the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:59 pm

i would love to fly on a DC-10 more than an A330 i take a DC-9 over a 737 or a A320 anyday

CORULEZ05 you must not know anything about the " Old planes " in my opinion they are BETTER than the new ones !
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:04 pm

Well, I was just expressing my thoughts and feelings about the DC-10....aren't we all entitled to our own opinion....SMILE and don't be so mean.... Smile
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
Jano
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:06 pm

Well, for me it's another DY1 (DC10-30) flight on 3/1 from AMS to MEM. It's a very nice ride Big grin
The Widget Air Line :)
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:10 pm

you know what, I'll book a flight on a DC-10 with NW...just to see what it is like and so people dont think I am so against the plane.......any ideas as to where I can go?
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:11 pm

Douglas aircraft are built like "brick shithouses" they live for a long long time as long as they are properly taken care of. Hell look at all of the DC-3's still flying. Hell my mom was an FA on a PBA flight back in the 80's when one of them became the highest hour dc-3 at the time.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:13 pm

You really don't want me to answer that do you?

MSP=LGW
MEM-AMS

As well as HNL to selected asian destinations.
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Jano
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:14 pm

MEM-AMS, SEA-AMS, BOS-AMS
The Widget Air Line :)
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Why NW Flies DC-10 This Long

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:18 pm

As I thought, I am stuck flying to AMS.....question, does NW still fly MIA-AMS....that is most convenient to me.....thanks guys!
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