wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:00 am

I want to thank BA for all those nice moments and good service that they gave me (and others) on the route LHR-CCS-BOG and also LGW-CCS-BOG
The trips on your B747’s B777’and B767’s were excellent.
Hope to see you come back again in the future!

Today will be their last flight to the north of South America.

I’m still very sad that this happened… the last time that I felt the same was when AV dropped their BOG-LHR route.

Still no many photos in the database from BA in BOG and CCS.
Here are some of mine and others to share with you! Hope that some of our Colombian friends are able to take some nice photos of the last flight.

Saludos
The Flying Dutchman - Willem Alberto  Crying


http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=418655




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Photo © Erick Houli



MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © The Flying Dutchman
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © The Flying Dutchman



Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:00 am


MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © jesus farias
MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © Orlando Suarez


Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:01 am


MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © juan jose G.
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © juan jose G.


Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:01 am


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © The Flying Dutchman
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © The Flying Dutchman


Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:02 am


MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © The Flying Dutchman
MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © José Ignacio García A


Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:02 am


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © The Flying Dutchman
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © The Flying Dutchman

Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:05 am

Is BA slowly withdrawing from the Latin American destinations, leaving them to Iberia hubbing in MAD or American hubbing in Miami ? With Iberia having a mediocre product and the AA-BA alliance disfunctional I would guess BA would try to fly own metal to all destinations where they can fill at least a 767... I guess this has been discussed but can't find anything.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:07 am

Yes you still can get BA tickets from LHR to BOG or CCS after today... but via MAD with IB.

Willem Alberto
Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
UnitedStarGold
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:51 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:44 am

Pity that they're withdrawing from those markets. I suppose the yields were either terrible, or simply not high enough to justify the opportunity costs of using the aircraft on those routes. A friend of mine has often flown to Caracas on BA; she didn't know that you could turn right when boarding the plane, so let's hope that the alternatives offer a decent amount of comfort!
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - Gen. R.E. Lee
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:17 am

Servaas,

Is BA slowly withdrawing from the Latin American destinations, leaving them to Iberia hubbing in MAD or American hubbing in Miami ?

There is no official strategy from BA, nor press releases or anything, regarding their route plans for South America.

BA has dropped most of its destinations in South America in the last years (not that they had a lot in the past), the only two routes currently served in the region being LHR-CCS-BOG and LHR-GRU-EZE/GIG.

Caracas-Bogotá, as this thread of course mentions, has been dropped without comments from BA. They just announced they were discontinuing the service. I have heard that the loads and yields on that route were good, but that was before the Venezuelan crisis. Nevertheless Venezuela is currently recovering, and one would think that if they flew during the worst times, they would continue flying now. Sadly no, British Airways said goodbye to Colombia and Venezuela, letting partner Iberia to fly alone that route.

I believe that perhaps Bogotá alone would have been successful, but BOG's location (very high above the sea level) makes it impossible for a fully-loaded aircraft to get there from London. Bogotá isn't getting lots of services from Europe right now, just Iberia, Air France and Air Madrid. Also Avianca flies to MAD with its own metal. I think that's about it, but I'll let any of our Colombian friends to complete/correct the list.

Caracas is another story, since they get flights of Alitalia, Air France, Lufthansa, Iberia and TAP. Santa Bárbara also flies to Madrid and to Tenerife, plus Conviasa will fly all over the world from both Caracas and Porlamar (wishful thinking). Again, Venezuelan amigos please correct me if I'm wrong. I personally believe Caracas isn't saturated but it gets exactly what it needs, since the city itself is not that big and the Venezuelan crisis, Chávez pseudo-dictature and the ban on using Venezuelan credit cards abroad (which has now been lifted, I think) currently don't make the city appealing for foreign investors. On the other side, more Latin American airlines are starting flights to or resuming CCS, but that's another story.

As for the other BA route in South America, LHR-GRU-EZE/GIG (3x weekly to GIG and 4x to EZE) it's been doing quite well lately, and it was upgraded from a 772 to 744 for the (southern) summer season. Nevertheless there are some rumours regarding the elimination of the last two legs (GRU-EZE/GIG), and letting them again to partner Iberia via Madrid. But those are still, and thankfully, only rumours.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:31 am

Bogotá es high but it could allow flying to LHR directly. Avianca tried it with 762 and it worked, they retired but technically it's quite possible to fly BOG LHR directly with good loads. Now, the 763 has a lower range than the 762.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
jcavinato
Posts: 392
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

I remember seeing the last regularly scheduled Concorde take off from CCS. It must have been 1980 or 1981. A lot of folks came out to see it off, photograph it, etc.

That day I was on my way home on a PanAm 747 up to Miami. Short trip for such a plane.
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:35 pm

I remember the first time I flew on an International flight (CCS-AMS) we had arrived from our noon flight from PZO and KLMs counter didn't open untill 5PM so we went upstairs for some Burger King, as my dad was filling out some immigration papers I sat on the terrace and saw something that really got my attention.......as I got close to the edge and leaned over this is what I saw:


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 Crying  Crying  Crying enough said......
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:46 pm

Another bad news for the aboandoned South America!

If we want to here the rumours of BA leaving Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo would be all that's left.
If I do the right math, the only direct link between London and South America would be BA/RG to Sao Paulo, right? Is this a sign of our continent not having strong enough links with the UK? weird indeed, Madrid, Paris, Rome, Frankfurt and Amsterdam will have more contact. London will stay almost at the "level" of Brussels or Lisbon.

It would be nice if this turns to be the chance for another Southamerican carrier to adventure british skies!

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:38 pm

Marambio,


A couple of comments regarding your post:


There is no official strategy from BA, nor press releases or anything, regarding their route plans for South America.

True. However, a simple inspection of BA's worldwide network, and a consequent comparison with what they currently have left in terms of presence, specifically, in South America, will tell that BA has long been focusing towards a big-time yield extraction, tightly related with premium product offer/demand, in markets that have simply proven better.


I have heard that the loads and yields on that route were good

A thousand and one comments about the route performance were made, most of them pointing out that loads were good, but yields pretty much weak, specially passenger-wise. Many day-by-day conversations [based on personal expierences mostly] gave credits to Bogota as the responsible for most of the route's traffic. Nothing official, yet I tend to strongly believe in both cases, specially the one noting mediocre yield performance, which can easily explain why they're leaving.




I believe that perhaps Bogotá alone would have been successful


Maybe Marcos, but there's more to it...


BA offered a thrice weekly service, when most European airlines flying to either Bogota or Caracas provide a daily service, or at least, a much more frequent operation. I know, this aspect would have further hurt the route performance if the dominant traffic was business instead of leisure, but still, for starters they're in a clear disadvantage.


BA, unlike AF [which is the second strongest player in the region] has a rather unflexible fleet to meet the conditions given by different markets/destinations. They are keen in filling the premium classes, and let's face it, for a significant amount of passengers generated both in my country and in Venezuela, premium-economy is enough of a product in order to satisfy their expectations of luxury-class. Needless to say that Club World, much less First, were products that were simply not going to be popular, especially in Bogotá.


Even if Bogota was performing acceptably, this fact was strongly clouded by Caracas' conditions. If I'm not mistaken they had a F/A base in Caracas and rotated crews there, not in Bogota, and this, added to Bogota's hot-and-[very]high conditions versus BA's fleet status, made the stop in Caracas more vital even if they didn't want to.


Add to all this, the clear inconvinience in BA's scheduled, they offered extremely late departure from Caracas around midnight, and a lousy afternoon arrival to Heathrow; while the other European majors depart Caracas [and Bogota] around the late afternoon allowing an early arrival to their hubs. All this scene became even more obsolete knowing Heathrow's geographical position for connections against Paris or Madrid.


And as if it weren't enough, they never got the 5th freedom rights between Caracas and Bogota.


Believe me, it's sad to see BA leaving from Colombia, and Venezuela at that, but it isn't one bit surprising when looking to it thoroughly, and 757MDE can give credit to that [and our MSN conversations about the topic]


Now let's sit and wait until somebody fills in the void.






SOUTHAMERICA




[Edited 2005-02-07 05:41:09]
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:35 pm

What's left of BA Latin America routes? MEX, GRU, GIG, EZE. Anything else? If you compare what we get with their African and Asian routes we are kind of behind. Granted, we don't have neither the economic appeal of Asia nor the colonial links of Africa, but we deserve better from the national carrier of the United Kingdom. Just my two cents.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:44 pm

Jcavinato,

The last Concorde flight CCS-CDG was AF200 on March 27th 1982 (F-BVFB).


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AIR FRANCE will fly fly a DAILY B744 on CDG-CCS-CDG and a DAILY A343 on CDG-BOG-CDG from next March 28th.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:10 pm

If I do the right math, the only direct link between London and South America would be BA/RG to Sao Paulo, right?

I don't know if it counts, but AR flies to London Gatwick via Madrid, the last leg operated by sister airline Air Plus Comet but sold as an AR flight.

There have been talks about starting a new, dedicated services from Buenos Aires to London, but apparently it will not happen in a near future.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16030
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:18 pm

In terms of yields to BOG and CCS, it was rare to find a fare for under £400 from LHR on BA.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:45 pm

Hi Guys

According to an internal staff newsletter, both CCS and BOG did not contribute sufficient profit in order to justify the expenses of the operation (including crew bases in either CCS or BOG, I can't remember where they were located).

It's a real shame I know, but you have to understand that the company, although having just announced a modest profit for the 3rd financial quarter (£75m) is going through some tough times. There is quite a large debt to service (about £3 billion, one of the highest firgures in Europe) our employee costs are one of the highest in Europe (bar SAS), and the airline is still having problems trying to generate decent profits in its European ops. Not easy tasks.

The days when the airline might have given stations such as CCS or BOG more time to make a decent contribution are gone I'm afraid. The management have become a lot more strict with regards to the network, and given our strong relationship with Iberia, the reasons for remaining strong in Latin America are not necessarily economic! The truth is that the airline wants to focus on lucrative routes/regions around the network.

Unfortunately, apart from GRU (and perhaps EZE, sometimes), Latin America is not very attractive, in this economic sense. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the UK does not compete in trade terms with France and Spain, for instance. Leisure passengers are fine, but the main profit centre for BA is Club World (First only just makes a profit). If BA can't fill CW, then management will not look favourably on that particular route. The airline can't afford to fly everywhere anymore (a shame, but this is a business!)

Now I hope we don't go cancelling EZE....a shame the BA crew no longer stay there (they just operate the return shuttle from GRU).

You may be interested in reading the history of the CCS/BOG route; the story was published in last week's internal staff paper; I can email it to anyone interested.

Saludos

 
Arcano
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:45 pm

Marambio:

Actually I did remember AR, but I meant direct flights. Not sure if it's exactly the same, but for me AR option is, in terms of passengers confort, equivalent to LA connecting with IB...

Regards)(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:47 pm

Doors to Manual BA's debt is down to just under £3.2 billion now, but as the company has managed to reduce it by nearly £1 billion last year, and by £3.4 billion since December 2001, that's an achievement. Shame to see BA dropping routes it has operated for a long time, especially with RYD and JED going too. At the same time though can hopefully expect to see BA in PVG later this year, as well as BLR, and an expanded presence in MAA. So not all doom and gloom from BA.

Be interested in a copy of that article if you'd care to e-mail it DoorstoManual.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
latinaviation
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:25 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:55 pm

DoorsToManual, could you please e-mail me a copy of the article? Thank you!
 
Avianca
Posts: 5283
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:16 pm

It is sad that BA was pulling out from this route. I can remember using the service 1991 with my family with an old BA 747-100 (LHR-CCS-BOG) and back. These days the service was not really the best compared to the other airlines, but ok it was the cheapest. On the return flight we had technical problems in CCS, and the flight was forced too do an extra stop in Antigua. We arrived LHR with a 10 hours delay...

In my opinion the decision of BA to pull out from this market is totally wrong.
The seats are replaced by other carriers like AF,LH,AZ...and BA is loosing the part of the cake, in specially for the high yielding transfer passengers from Northern South America to India, China and South Asia. This marketplace is increasing year by year. And I don´t think they are attractive with a routing BOG/CCS - MAD - LHR - DEL. The passengers will prefer a one airport connection via CDG or FRA.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:25 pm

If we want to here the rumours of BA leaving Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo would be all that's left.

Rio de Janeiro would also be left. But if EZE goes GIG would also go.

On the other hand, BA is very vigilant with GIG because VS announced that GIG is in its "wish list". If VS operates LHR-GIG, I'm sure BA would not withdraw from GIG.

BA could also operate a dedicated flight LHR-GRU and open a second route LHR-GIG-EZE [plus on the traffic GIG-EZE there is less competition if compared to GRU-EZE].

If I do the right math, the only direct link between London and South America would be BA/RG to Sao Paulo, right?

Arcano: RG flies daily LHR-GRU-GIG with the MD-11. In 2004 loads were 80-90%, and is one RG's most profitable international routes, especially on business and first. [3 x week RG extends the flight and operates CPH-LHR-GRU-GIG].

As such, RG is the only LatAm airline landing in the UK and Scandinavia.

DoorsToManual:

BA should be spending a lot in their crew to operate the GRU-EZE and GRU-GIG legs, correct? The crew is based in GRU only? How is the crew rotation on the EZE/GIG legs, and are they locals with BA crew taking over GRU-LHR?

Do you think BA will keep the 747 to GRU all-year around? Please email me the internal staff paper.

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-07 14:53:55]
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:16 pm

Bye, bye BA !
It's very sad to see them leaving. I had nice flights with them !
I consider the decision to leave CCS as a mistake ! Maybe wee see them returning soon.
LH also left and came back only one year later  Big thumbs up
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:28 pm

Hi Guys

I'll send you the email as as soon as I can, it's an attachment in PDF format.

FlyCaledonian,

Indeed, large strides have been made in cutting down the enormous debt the airline labours under; there are a lot of cynical employees out there, but I for one think management have so far done a good job under very difficult circumstances...its in everyone's interests for this airline to succeed; we're going to have to make some sacrifices to get there though.

Yes, I hope the PVD route becomes a success, same for Bangalore.

Hardiwv,

I'm not crew on longhaul, so I'm not quite certain how the route works. I believe we have a crew base at EZE. UK crew are based at GRU. They'll all fly down to GRU, and nightstop there for about 3-4 days. In those 3-4 days they will operate a 'shuttle' flight down to EZE (there and back). This is where the EZE-based crew will terminate. Another set of Argentine crew will join the shuttle flight to GRU, and then the next day, the UK + EZE crew operate back to LHR.

In the old non-stop days, crew would nightstop in Buenos Aires. It was a very popular trip for flight and cabin crew - everyone loved Bs As, and the pay was very good indeed. At BA, you are paid through an allowance system. So the cost of a local meal (breakfast, lunch etc.) is calculated and then converted into ££s. This is in addition to basic pay. In the old days, with the Peso pegged to the $$, the crew were paid very handsomely....obviously the present arrangement must somehow be cheaper.

About using the 744 year-round. I have to be honest, I really have no idea. As I don't work in the commercial department, it's not really my place to know! However, I check loads on the GRU flight regularly, and the flight always appears full in F and overbooked in all other cabins!

rgds

[Edited 2005-02-07 15:34:57]
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:40 pm

My internal source at BA summarized BA´s policy and why the route was closed down. 1. Costs of staff (most of the crew based in BOG have been around for around 20 years and under old contract laws, making them very expensive). 2. Stop in CCS, most pax were BOG origin therefore the stop in CCS did not pay itself and crew based there were also around for some time so also very expensive. 3. International based crew are not efficient cost wise as having no daily flights they end having more days at home than UK based crew and both Venezuelan and Colombian laws would not permit the closure of the crew bases while maintaining an operation. 4.Direct flight from BOG was under study for sometime, but performance issues especially as cargo was full ex-BOG every flight made it not possible, and UK based unions would not allow a BGI fuelling stop with no change in crew. BA said that they will come back but probably only to BOG if this issue can be sorted out with the crew. 5. BA wants no shuttle services in the near future, just non stops as crew costs go up dramatically if they have to slip somewhere and then do a shuttle.

On the GRU/GIG/EZE issue many of the same issues apply according to my source, BA is saying that GIG is not a very profitable leg so in the short term they may reduce a leg to GIG and increase it to EZE, and if EZE continues to pick up they may split the flight 4 x week to GRU and 3 x week to EZE
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:52 pm

However, I check loads on the GRU flight regularly, and the flight always appears full in F and overbooked in all other cabins!

I am also aware that BA's operations to GRU are very good on yields and loads. GRU was one of BA's better performing markets on business/first class in 2004.

if EZE continues to pick up they may split the flight 4 x week to GRU and 3 x week to EZE

BA will only serve GRU daily - I dont see any chance that BA reduces flights to GRU from daily to 4 x week, especially now that they upgraded to the B747.

UK crew are based at GRU. They'll all fly down to GRU, and nightstop there for about 3-4 days. In those 3-4 days they will operate a 'shuttle' flight down to EZE (there and back).

And what about GIG? So I assume BA should have a fairly big crew-base in GRU, serving not only LHR but also EZE and GIG. Do you know whether, in this cases, BA uses local crew? This would also increase the operational cost, right?

Rgs,
 
Avianca
Posts: 5283
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:00 am

also the cargoloads on all sectors from LHR to (GRU;GIG;EZE) , at least on the southbound flight. are very good booked. It is hard to get space on this flights. mostly capazity is sold as an Block Space Agreement.

Anybody has information how is the loadfactor on the northbound flight? ok for this legs the yield is very poor, but ok they make the money on the flight ex europe.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:10 am

Anybody has information how is the loadfactor on the northbound flight? ok for this legs the yield is very poor

Cargo yields for the Northboud segment, ex GRU/GIG/EZE, were weak in the past, but now are very strong - both Argentina and Brazil are having an export boom, and breaking export records every year.

In Brazil cargo demand was so high that the Aviation Authority gave permission for international Charter airlines to operate cargo as well. This came as a major relieve for exporters from the Northeast/North of Brazil, as charter airlines usually operate to the Northeast of the country. Usually cargo departs from CPQ and GRU in the South of Brazil.

However, the introduction of the B747 to GRU-EZE/GIG route has nothing to do with cargo - it was purely on grounds of increasing capacity for business/first.

Rgs,
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:18 am

Hi Hardi

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you with the word 'base'. As far as I know, there is NO base at GRU/GIG. Simply the UK crew will nightstop at GRU, from which they operate the shuttle flights to either EZE or GIG.

As I mentioned, I'm not on longhaul so I'm really not 100% sure, I could find out though.

BTW, I need your email address so send the copy of the staff paper.

rgds

p.s. great info on the BOG/CCS route suspension, this is a great forum for such info.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5283
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:23 am

intresting to hear that. because in special Brazil is very well known in the market, with poor cargoloads on northbound flights. And it is very difficult for the airlines to get the permission for export cargo.

Cargolux in this case has not the permission to export on all 3 flights per week(CPQ, CWB) cargo, that is why the extend one flight per week to BOG and one flight per week to Latacunga (Ecuador) to export from these markets flowers to europe.

The ratelevel in this moment is under 1 USD per kg, compared to 2 Euro or more per kg on the southbound flight still poor.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:25 am

DoorsToManual:

Tks for the info. Now I understand, the crew makes a nightstop in GRU and next day serves EZE or GIG. Very smart way of dealing with the situation. So the crew could end up spending almost a whole week in Brazil/Argentina: LHR-GRU [nightstop] GRU-EZE [nightstop] GRU-GIG [nightstop] GIG-GRU [nightstop] GRU-LHR...just joking!

Just click on my user-name and email to send me your message. I included my email uner my profile! Tks in advance.

Rgs,
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:36 am

Sorry me again! Well, I have no work today so.....

Hardi, maybe I'm just quite bad with computers, but I can't email you the article through a.net because I have saved it as a PDF on my PC, therefore I need your actual email address to send it as an attachment.

Please contact me via amp46@cantab.net

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:19 am

DoorsToManual: Tks for the interesting article. In the article they underline that the reason why BA is leaving BOG and CCS is based on low return ("lack of profitability" in their words).

Rgs,
 
lima
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun May 30, 1999 11:37 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:22 am

British Airways used to have Argentina based and also Brazilian based crews. Anyone knows what happened with these scheme?

 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:47 am

its the conection with Iberia thats stopping the Latin America flights.
Iberia flies to a lot of Latin American destinations from MAD, and its easier for BA, becuase they have aircraft availble for higher density routes.
No Vueling No Party
 
Summa767
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:53 am

BA clearly has its strategy of focusing on premium passengers, but I am happy that the way is clear for Avianca to return to London non-stop.

In the long term, it would be good to see a British airline, other than BA, take advantage of the rights to do CCS and/or BOG. Whilst BA is shrinking its network, VS is expanding theirs.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:02 am

Whilst BA is shrinking its network, VS is expanding theirs.

Indeed, and VS stated that GIG was in its wish-list, so maybe we could see VS landing in the region very soon.

British Airways used to have Argentina based and also Brazilian based crews. Anyone knows what happened with these scheme?

Sebastian: you are correct. That's why I asked about BA's Brazilian and Argentine based crew, who for me were the crew for BA's leg GRU-EZE and GRU-GIG. An international mixed crew would then take over for the LHR-GRU leg. I still think that BA has native Brazilian and Argentinian crew, since BA total staff in Brazil and Argentina is over 100.

This type of scheme is somehow used by JAL which uses a Brazilian-based crew for GRU-JFK, and an international mix crew for JFK-NRT...

Rgs,
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:36 am

I know BA still have both Brazilian and Argentinian based crew, as well as Mexico based crew, and if they use the same scheme as they did in CCS-BOG they had 1 CCS based, 2 BOG based and the rest were London based on every sector. I flew on the MEX-LHR and they also had a few Mexico based and the rest were London based, I saw the same on a LHR-HKG. So I assume this is a constant on BA´s flight.
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:50 am

Well, judging by the big mailbox next to the ICC (International Cabin Crew) dropfiles at BA crew report centre a big white label with "Mi Buenos Aires querido" confirms this to be the case...

I've also seen mailboxes for crew based in Mexico, Hong Kong, Cairo, Tokyo, Mumbai and Delhi. Can't remember anything about Brazilian crew, but I'm sure you're right.
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:06 am

ts too bad that BA isn't looking at South America as an opportunity, like AC, IB, and AF.

All three of these carriers seek to provide an alternative to US carriers and the new visa requirements for transit passengers in the USA. Air Canada expanded into South America with a blitz, inaugurating service to BOG, CCS, LIM, SCL. Iberia increased frequencies, dismantled its MIA hub to Central America (resulting in A340s in GUA and PTY!), and started the non-stop to MVD. Air France now operates 46 movements per week to the continent.

With better strategy, it seems that BA could have benefited as well, but was too late.

Not all who wander are lost....
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:25 am

On the other side, more Latin American airlines are starting flights to or resuming CCS, but that's another story.

True, but another significant amount is reducing/reduced frequencies/capacity to Caracas, not only Latin carriers; namely Aerolíneas Argentinas, American Airlines and Air Canada.





Air Canada expanded into South America with a blitz, inaugurating service to BOG, CCS, LIM, SCL.

CCS however, has been considerably downgraded from 3 weekly flights to only 2 weekly, and on a triangle routing combined with POS. A319 used.

On the other hand, AC was seeking to increase BOG from 3 to 4 weekly services, now they were granted permission to do so, and are now codesharing with AV, who at the same time is looking to operate nonstop flights to YYZ in order to complete a daily flight both ways between Toronto and Bogota; all under codeshared operations between both companies.

Notice that EZE also gained nonstop both ways some days to/from YYZ.




resulting in A340s in GUA and PTY!

...and SJO.



Air France now operates 46 movements per week to the continent.

I'm pretty sure there are more that could be counted in, especially if based on summer shedules and for Latin America as a whole. Now, if you also consider KL's operations to the continent, the amount increases significantly.


Anyway, these minor details only reinforce your point, in which we fully agree.




SOUTHAMERICA



[Edited 2005-02-07 21:27:24]
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:57 am

too bad that BA isn't looking at South America as an opportunity, like AC, IB, and AF

Dont forget LH (GRU, two flights da day, EZE, SCL and CCS), AZ (GRU, EZE and CCS) and TAP (Brazil in general + CCS). The three will be stronger than BA in the region.

Notice that EZE also gained nonstop both ways some days to/from YYZ

Indeed, AC now serves EZE 3 x week nonstop and 4 x week with a stop-over in SCL. And dont forget LIM: 3 x week nonstop also with the 763. Finally, GRU had its capacity increased from 6 to daily nonstop flights. [Loads to GRU in 2004 were 93%, which indicates a possible further expansion].

AC is doing extremely well in LatAm.

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-07 22:14:11]
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:18 am

BA wants a merger with IB, and BA is doing all possible to get a "yes" from the leading Iberia's shareholders.
And BA is not very interesting on the South American market... Is it SO difficult to understand???  Sad HERE, on a.net ALWAYS, we're talking of the same things  Angry It's a bit boring and tired, isn't??
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:18 am

From reply 19:According to an internal staff newsletter, both CCS and BOG did not contribute sufficient profit in order to justify the expenses of the operation (including crew bases in either CCS or BOG, I can't remember where they were located).

That's a BA excuse! And if you read it carefully the article says: "did not contribute SUFFICIENT profit in order to justify the expenses of the operation"
Then, profit... there was, wasn't?  Big grin The key issue here, BA wants merger with IB. It's so plain like that! The rest, are excuses. A BA-IB company will allow IB keeping all South American market for them. On this scenario, BA is not interested in South America at all... or said in Spanish: no se les ha perdido nada en Iberoamérica cuando la fusión sea una realidad.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:21 am

Sad! BA have had to back off Spanish speaking South America, despite good loads. Iberia considered it their turf and wanted BA's share of the market for themselves.

Maybe if IB treated its UK-Spain passengers a bit better we would be more willing to use their long-haul services, as it is I will travel via CDG with AF should I visit Colombia. IB lost me when they started charging me for coffee and sandwiches on their flights to Spain.
 
wimpycol
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:28 am

Anxebla

BA wanted to do the same with KL some years ago.... before the AF-KL merger.
But KL always refused on the fact that they would lose their brand name and identity.
(well in 5 years from now nobody knows what will happen with KL.)

Interesting what IB will do with BA proposals!

saludos/ regards
William Alberto
Colombia... can't wait to be there again!!!!!!!!!!
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Farewell To BA In Colombia And Venezuela :(

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:30 am

As it is I will travel via CDG with AF should I visit Colombia.

Daily flight from March 27 if it helps...  Big grin



SOUTHAMERICA

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