atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:57 pm

ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:23 pm

900x has been hanging above the market for years, no takers so far.

Picture where the proposed door location is visible..
http://www.aeromagazin.hu/rovatok/friss/polgarirepules/4564547/737-900x%20copy.jpg
Probably serious doors to accommodate the slides..

Seems odd that when JAL has obviously a 220 seat requirement, they leave the actual availability of the required aircraft open for "talking about"..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9864
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:27 pm

The 737-900X would carry upto 220 passengers, wouldn't it intrude on B787-3 sales?
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:59 pm

Boeing should have just upgraded the 757 and then they wouldn't have to worry about launching this. If JAL wanted something in the single-aisle, 220 pax market...the 757 would have been it. Damn shame the 757 is gone...best airplane in it's class.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:11 pm

But the 757 would not have commonality with the smaller 737s.

787-8 carries 223 passengers in 3 classes, while the physically same sized 787-3 carries 290+ passengers in 2 classes, and some huge number in 1 class. The 737-900X carries 220 pax in one class
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:06 pm

I think if they wanted a 220 seater, they could have selected the available modern 220 seater offered to them. However other factors obviously were of overriding importance.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:27 pm

Here's JAL's press release that mentions the -900X

http://www.jal.co.jp/en/press/2005/020402/020402.html

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:06 pm

I was thinkng that if they needed 220 seats why didnt they order the 757-200 before the line was shut down? That was one damn fine airplane, and Boeing would not have to go through all the developemnt of the 900X that will now be required for this.
One Nation Under God
 
PVG
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:39 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:12 pm

If 757 was such a great plane, why couldn't they sell them? If they could sell them, I assume that they wouldn't have shut the line.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4906
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:03 am

The 757 WAS a fine airplane. But, why fly 737s and 757s, which share nothing in common, when you can fly all 737s? It makes financial sense. Further, it is no sweat of Japan's back that Boeing has to spend money to develop a product they want.
Also, the 757 was a much longer range airplane than the 737-900.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:22 am

Maybe this will spark interest in other airlines that have been rumored as potential launch customers such as Virgin Blue and AM.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:25 am

Ugh.

Again, this is 220 seats in a one class configuration. The 737-900X is the same size as the 739. This is just Boeing finally catching it up to the A321.

The 757 in a one class configuration could hold what, 250 or 260 passengers?

Boeing needs the 739X. The 739 is a black sheep in the lineup.

N
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:41 am

Gigneil:

If the 737-900 is the black sheep, what does that make the 737-600?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:44 am

The 737-600 is a quality competitor to the A318.

The 737-900 is not a quality competitor to the A321.

That was my only basis for that particular comment.

N
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:47 am

If the 737-900 is the black sheep, what does that make the 737-600?

The B736 is the dark grey sheep, because its sales figures are better than the B739's.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:06 am

Udo,

The B736 is the dark grey sheep, because its sales figures are better than the B739's.

Yes, but in the long run I wouldn't be surprised if the B739 overtakes the B736 in orders. Now, with no B757 being offered by Boeing, the B739X might get chosen by a few Boeing customers who want to bridge the gap between smaller B737s and the B787. However, with the Embraers in the low end, it might be harder for the B736 to pick any new orders...

Of course, who knows?

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:19 am

>If 757 was such a great plane, why couldn't they sell them? If they could sell them, I assume that they wouldn't have shut the line.<

You mean all 1049 they could not sell?

>The 757 in a one class configuration could hold what, 250 or 260 passengers?<

240, it also has longer range and cruises much faster. Still, it is heavier and does not have commonality with the 737.

Neil is right about the -900 being the current black sheep simply because Boeing rushed it to the market to apease the needs of AS and KL, and did not fully engineer it to its greatest potential. This is why it has had its ass handed to it by the far better thought out A321 (which also had really really short range in the -100 version and was improved when Airbus saw a market in the US).
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:30 am

You mean all 1049 they could not sell?

Yeah it had a great sales run, until 2001 when Boeing couldn't give them away...

Neil is right about the -900 being the current black sheep simply because Boeing rushed it to the market to apease the needs of AS and KL, and did not fully engineer it to its greatest potential.

Had AS and KL asked for the -900X features they would have. They didn't.

This is why it has had its ass handed to it by the far better thought out A321 (which also had really really short range in the -100 version and was improved when Airbus saw a market in the US).

The A321 has hardly been the corner-stone of the A320 Family. Tailoring the line to the 73G and 738 performance (and conversly, A319/A320) was the smart thing to do.

The 737-900X would carry upto 220 passengers, wouldn't it intrude on B787-3 sales?

The 787-3 will seat close to 300 passengers in a 737-like domestic configuration.
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:17 am

You mean all 1049 they could not sell?

Isn't the magic number 1050? Big grin
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:21 am

One prototype.

1049 sales.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:22 am

>One prototype.<

Still flying for Boeing as their test bed
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:24 am

Ah yes, that's right...isn't that the one with the funky nose used for JSF testing (might be the F-22)?
 
Bronko
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 3:28 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:18 pm

FriendlySkies: You are correct:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jet City Aviation Photography

Jet City Aviation Photography
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-800?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:54 am

The link, http://www.jal.co.jp/en/press/2005/020402/020402.html , specifically shows JAL comparison data for the 737-800 in the chart at the bottom of the page. . .anybody have further news?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
User avatar
ODwyerPW
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:30 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:24 am

Why not develop the 900X as the replacement for the 900 and continue to call it the 900. Do you have to give it an entirely new designation just because you add two rear exit, move/reshape aft pressure bulkhead?
How much re-certifcation will these changes require?

Just curious.

They've sold 55, Delivered 46. Could they just build the last 9 in the existing configuration and begin offering the revised 900 (900X enhancements) for new orders.

I know with the added exit doors, you will be able to decrease seat pitch and add squeeze in another 5 rows of seating, so that you have a good boost to 220 in single class configuration.

With the gain of space in the rear with the redesign of the aft pressure bulkhead and push back of the rear galley, how much additonal capacity would be added in the 2-class configuration? Are we talking just one 1/2 row of seats here for an increase of 3 for a total capacity of 180 or a full row for an increase to 183?



[Edited 2005-02-19 00:25:47]
learning never stops.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:30 am

I know with the added exit doors, you will be able to decrease seat pitch and add squeeze in another 5 rows of seating, so that you have a good boost to 220 in single class configuration.

One a more humane note, the 739X will feature a flat pressure bulkhead that will allow the gally/lav to shift further back... allowing an extra seat row (or two) without compromising seat pitch.

JAL is not likely to configure a 739X in full coach with 30-31 inch pitch anyway.

Why not develop the 900X as the replacement for the 900 and continue to call it the 900.

Because of the obvious confusion of having two aircraft with the same designation. Note that some customers don't care/don't require the 739X configuration. Additional exit doors mean nothing to CO/KL except weight and cost, but I'm sure more range would be nice.
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:32 am

Ouch they really raped that 757 haven't they?  Laugh out loud
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:20 am

"I think if they wanted a 220 seater, they could have selected the available modern 220 seater offered to them. However other factors obviously were of overriding importance."

They already selected the ultra-modern 787.

I'll say one thing about you Keesje, you're always consistent with your anti-Boeing BS.
Keepin' it real.
 
wilax
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:39 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:58 pm

If Boeing could get some 787-effecient engines and a 3500NM range, the 739X would be a winner...
 
User avatar
ODwyerPW
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:30 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:40 pm

Boeing appears to be serious about moving the 737 up to the 200+ single isle range.

Noticed this statement from the 717 Line Closing Statement.
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050114a.html

"And Boeing will continue to compete aggressively with our popular 737 Next Generation family of airplanes, which serves the 100- to 215-seat market,” said Mulally.
learning never stops.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1945
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:01 am

I think KLM has "hit the nail on the head" with their 737-900s, packing in 188 seats the smart way, by having seats with 33-34" pitch ahead of the overwing exits and seats with 30-31" pitch behind the o/w exits. That way they can offer a premium service AND a low-fare service on the same aircraft, as opposed to LCC's which only offer low-fare service on the 737-800s where ALL 189 seats are 30" pitch.

The 739 costs a bit more, but premium cabin service brings in extra revenue and with the 739 having extra hold space due to it being longer than the 738 but having the same pax number, they have room for more commercial cargo as well, which means even more money in the till, so over time the ekstra cost should be worth it.

Something for other mainline carriers to consider, I'd say...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:04 am

The 737-900X would carry upto 220 passengers, wouldn't it intrude on B787-3 sales?

The 787-3 will seat close to 300 passengers in a 737-like domestic configuration.

380 to be exact. (in Corsair configuration)


The 737-900X would be about the same size as the 752. It makes sence to have a 737 in this size, for fleet similarity. I think Boeing should have gone ahead with the 737-900X in the first place instead of producing the current 737-900.


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:11 am

The 737-900X will be exactly the same size as the current one. It won't be close to the 757's size.

N
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting Gigneil (reply 32):
The 737-900X will be exactly the same size as the current one. It won't be close to the 757's size.


Assuming that it gets the full 220-seat certification, that's only what, 19 seats (3 seatrows) short of the 752?
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:30 am

The 752 can take 240 passengers, so it would be close.


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting DeltaWings (reply 34):
The 752 can take 240 passengers, so it would be close.

Just as clarification, the exit limit under the FAA for the four-door 752 is 239 passengers, whilst for the five-door version it's 224. Not sure if these differ slightly under different jurisdictions. As comparison, the A321 appears to be certified up to 220 passengers, although thanks to Airbus' crummy website design I can't confirm this.

Rich
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1945
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting RedDragon (reply 35):
As comparison, the A321 appears to be certified up to 220 passengers, although thanks to Airbus' crummy website design I can't confirm this.


If you go to GECAS.com and click on A321 info, you'll see a seat map with 220 seats at 28/29 inch pitch. The aircraft is packed solid, no more room for any more seats. I would hate to fly in one of those craft, sardines have more space when tinned.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: JAL Interested In 737-900X

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:21 pm

The 737-900X will be exactly the same size as the current one. It won't be close to the 757's size.


Exactly. The same fuselage length will GREATLY reduce certification costs.

We just need a 739X launch customer! I guess AS, QF and Virgin Blue are not interested! I always thought Ryanair might be. Their recent addl 738 order suggests not.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.