junior1970
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KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:52 am

Has KL ever had service to AKL and why did KL drop SYD/MEL ?
 
ei2ksea
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:03 am

Sorry I cannot answer but it reminds me that I can remember an old KLM timetable from the late 90s where they touted increased service to SYD. Similarly a large article in Atlas - Air France Inflight Magazine about Sydney and the AF flight services to SYD. Strange how Olympic, KLM, Air France have all dropped SYD/MEL. I would think KL dropped it because of competition from Malaysia, Singapore and other asian carriers via their respective hubs - services from MAN, CPH, etc etc with these arilines could have offered 1 stop services against KLM with a 2 stop via AMS and the far east.
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junior1970
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:17 am

KL used to fly to SYD with one stop in SIN. I remember, because I flew that route to go and see the 2000 olympics.
Last year I went to SYD again, but now on SQ with a stop in SIN, because I wan't able to get a KLM ticket.

By the way.....SQ service was awesome. There's no better in the world today if you ask me.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
KL808
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:26 am

The AMS-SIN-SYD route became too expensive for KL to operate. The yields where low and the route was operating at a loss.

Therefore it was axed in favor of a big codeshare with MH to all Australian destinations from KUL.

Drew
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KaiGywer
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:36 am

Is there any way to get from the US to anywhere in Australia on Skyteam, reasonably priced?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
ei2ksea
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:51 am

How about KE via Soeul Incheon? - probably your only option i would think....super airport too!
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NZ767
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:11 am

No. KLM have never served AKL.  Smile
 
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eta unknown
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:42 am

KLM flew to SYD/MEL for many years- when the 747's operated the route, it was once weekly- ex Australia on Fridays. The routing changed a bit- sometimes via a combination of CMB/KHI/SIN. When the 744's came around, MEL was dropped and SYD frequency upped to about 3x AMS-SIN-SYD with a combination of all pax and combi aircraft. All sales offices except SYD were closed and morale was rather low- perhaps the remaining staff knowing the end was in sight, just not knowing the actual date.

The fares were attractive enough (not the lowest), but the route was a huge money loser. Unofficially it was marketed in Australia as basic-not-too fancy transportation at a reasonable price with emphasis on regional UK destinations with partner Air UK, resulting in many repeat pax and just as many "never again" pax.

In fact, the service was under the microscope in AMS for at least 2 years before they pulled the plug, the rationale being the cost and financial return of sending the aircraft down to Australia from SIN for a day's work vesus returning straight to AMS being the deciding factor. In the end, the flight operated 6x weekly- 3 KLM flights SYD-SIN-AMS (no traffic rights SYD-SIN- presumably to ensure the flight was filled with higher yielding Europe traffic)- and 3x SYD-SIN-MXP for Alitalia during the short-lived KL/AZ partnership. The AZ service was a disaster- the Italian community not liking it one bit, especially as the flight terminated in MXP rather than FCO- most immigrants hailing from the south of Rome.

The only 2 European carriers still flying to Australia are BA and Austrian- the former survives charging high fares, the latter by tapping into the Eastern European immigrant market that no other airline really serves.
 
Gemuser
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:50 am

Junior1970

Like the US - SW Pacific, the Europe - SW Pacific is a difficult market. It is long, it is thin, expensive to operate compared to say the N Atlantic, and has strong competing airlines.

Looking at each of these factors in turn:

Long: To be competive from LHR, CDG, FRA & VIE, at least it has to be one stop for preimum traffic. This means a B744, A340 or B777. Range is not as critical as on the Pacific, but still important. Not too many airlines have these aircraft spare and if the did they could probably use them more profitably in less difficult markets.

Thin: There are only about 30 million people in the total SW Pacific area, or less than the combined population of the LA Basin and the SF Bay Area, but spread out over several million square miles.

Expensive to Operate: It takes a minimum of 3 aircraft to provide daily service. Overheads are relatively high because frequencies are low, 1, 2 or max 3 daily.

Strong Competing Airlines: Qantas & BA are of course very well established on the route, having operated it since 1934. As well you have extremely strong competing airlines from Asian airlines, being based between Europe & Oz their home hubs are well placed to handle the traffic without additional expenditure. The area also contains some of the world best airlines, SQ, JL, TG, MH, CX etc so it is a very competative market. And to top that off you now have Middle Eastern airlines such as EK, GF & QR entering the market. EK in particular, in a big way.

This market is extremely important to QF and they will fight ANYBODY in this market to the death! It less important to BA, but still very important. It is less important to any other European airline, so their movation to fight for the route is consequently much less. As for the Asian airlines it is a much less difficult route as they are connecting via their hub it is really two shorter routes for them.


So in these days of deregulated airline markets, the route was just too hard to make profitable for KLM, even with the Dutch/Indonesia traffic. The MH code share is just so much more profitable. It was a very sad day when the last KLM aircraft left SYD as they were the very first foregin airline to serve Australia, services commencing in 1934 also.


Gemuser

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Capital146
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:10 am

The only 2 European carriers still flying to Australia are BA and Austrian

Don't forget VS. They have recently launched services to SYD from LHR via HKG with their A346's.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:13 am

KL codeshare with MH for sure via AKL, am not sure about TN, but I know they have a cheap fare structure they have organised together with a few airlines. I think it's part of that World Explorer fare that uses KL/MH/KE/AZ/Kenya Airways & NW. I know they have a KL team/office here in AKL because I was visited by their rep in my last job, and I saw her working at the Travel Show on Saturday so I know they haven't shut up shop.
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HB-IWC
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:27 pm

Further to the detailed information presented above, not many people seem to realize that KLM, after pulling the AZ code-share, but before abandoning Australia completely, actually added a fourth weekly frequency to complement the thrice weekly AMS-SIN-SYD services. The extra frequency operated AMS-KUL-SYD, and was announced with much fanfare at SYD at the occasion of KL's 65-years service of Australia.

 
chrisrad
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RE: KL Ever In AKL? And Why Drop SYD/MEL?

Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:57 pm

Is there any way to get from the US to anywhere in Australia on Skyteam, reasonably priced?
though not in skyteam yet, you can fly Malaysia Airlines to Australia via KUL, for about $999 USD
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