JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:33 pm


I just heard on the radio that there's been a change of plans and now AM and MX will be sold separately. Instead of selling Aerolitoral and Aerocaribe together, and AM and MX together, the airlines are going to be sold basically as they are now: AM and Aerolitoral together, and MX and Aerocaribe together.

Also, former minister Pedro Aspe is planning to launch a low-cost carrier (link in spanish):
http://www.reforma.com/negocios/articulo/493633/
 
pecevanne
Posts: 154
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 pm

Yes Jose. Yesterday IPAB decided to sell as separate entities.
My sources said that this figure will boost AM and MX in the near future.
Some body mention to me that MXA will start DFW in may.
Charters flights during the day( CUN,PVR,SJD) Scheduled by night(BJX,ZCL,MLM)
A-319 will be used
 
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mx330
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Sounds like 10 times more logical than selling two different brands together.
Hope they sell them soon though!

Juan APM

P.S. JoseMEX, we missed you last Sat.
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
JJJM
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Where can we get more information on this topic?????
 
EddieDude
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:41 am

There are at least 3 articles in the financial internet portal http://mx.invertia.com. It seems that Aerocaribe will be transformed into an LCC. None of the articles mentions this expressly but it can be inferred from them. In addition, there are news on the interest of Protego (the investment bank headed by former Minister of Finance Pedro Aspe) to participate in the aviation industry (it is unclear if such participation will be made as a long-term investment, a venture-capital investment or solely as financial advisor to any interested investors).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
hardiwv
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:52 am

Sorry my ignorance, but I thought AM and MX would be merged and not sold together. I also thought that AM and MX were managed by the same group: CINTRA. Why are they selling both airlines?

Rgs,
 
Mexicana757
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:36 am

Cool, this makes more sense than merging both AM and MX. Here is an article explaining what CINTRA will do. Probably once both airlines are sold, they will become very competitive with each other. I wonder how big this new LCC will be.

It also looks like CINTRA will also sell SEAT, they offer ground services for airlines.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh47348_2005-02-08_14-06-44_n08262400_newsml
 
anxebla
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:42 am

Queridos Cuates... I assume AM will continue as a SkyTeam member... or not??
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
AM001
Posts: 149
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:00 am

Has any of you read this???

http://www.cintra.com.mx/espanol/accionist/boletines/boletin08Feb05.htm
(sorry, only in Spanish so far).

Briefly: there will be two main groups
- MX plus a new entity (yes, QA transformed into a LCC) for international routes.
- AM and a transformed 5D for domestic routes.
And then:
- SEAT will be sold independently...
- The sale of Aeromexpress (Cargo), Alas de America (the school), Sabre and ITR (systems) will be announced ¡n a later date.
So now we'll have a re-shuffle of routes??? What will happen to AM's routes to Europe? And to the important domestic market of MX?

I guess this is the best solution... But I wonder how many changes will we see in the near future...

Good afternoon, gentleman.

AM001
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
nycflyer
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:04 am

could someone please explain to me why AM and MX were made into two separate airlines to begin with? both are state-owned and managed by the same company. both do international and domestic flights. they even codeshare! what's the point? why have two airlines at all?
 
navega
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:04 am

Can someone confirm what I have been reading..

Aeromexico to become Domestic within Mexico and Mexicana to become
International ??


Would appreciate any info direct from Mexico. This was in Reuters this
morning on internet and on BBC.

 
Luis777
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:19 am

AM001

Tell me please where does it say that MX is going for international market and AM for national market, that press bulletin establish clearly that Mexicana is the leader in the international sector and Aeromexico is the leader in the national sector (I don't know if this is true, possibly), nothing else. It's non-sense that MX cover the most of international routes including Europe and AM just simply drop them from one day to another. AM and MX have to share both national and international market equally, it's logical if the CFC wants that both really could compete each other in favor of the passengers.

Regards

LG
 
JOSEMEX
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:19 am

>Aeromexico to become Domestic within Mexico and Mexicana to become
International ??<

Well, that's what I understand from CINTRA's press release linked above ( reply 8).

Although who knows what they will come up with next week. (A veces me dá la impresión de que no tienen ni puñetera idea de lo que van a hacer con las dos compañías).

Thankfully, it looks like the Aeronacional name is gone for good.  Smile
 
LatinPlane
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:26 am


Just my thoughts, but what is said about the LLC, could be what Ghost77, has said before, about turning AeroCaribe into Mexicana Express. Now, that makes perfect sense!

 Smile LatinPlane

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
AM001
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:42 am

Luis, amigo: that's what I inferred from the press release (know I may be wrong)... and I know it's not a fact (I couldn't possibly like AM leaving Europe!!!)... that's why I asked what would become of both, to see if anyone had more info on both issues... And what I mean with "the best solution" is the separate sell of both entities, not the international/domestic issue...  Big grin

JoseMEX: Estoy absolutamente de acuerdo con eso!!!  Smile

BTW, here's a new one: http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt.jsp?cat=USMARKET&src=704&feed=dji§ion=news&news_id=dji-00039620050208&date=20050208&alias=/alias/money/cm/nw
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
N405MX
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:48 am

Yep it´s right, also time ago in "El financiero" (financial newspaper in Mexico) said something about 2 weeks ago, right now the idea is that MX will keep QA (like now), but QA will be converted more into a LCC (right now is almos a LCC), and AM will keep 5D, part of aeromexpress will stay with MX as part of the plan to revive (hope i wrote right) the MX Cargo division (almost dissapeared time ago).

More news coming, like i said before, we´ll just have to wait, nothing is written yet.....

Regards
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
sr117
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:49 am

Well, I don't want to comment too much since as JoseMEX says above, they'll probably change their minds again next week !

But one thing is for sure, once they're sold, it's up to the new owners to decide what they will do with the companies, so I dunno how they can be saying that one airline will be focused on this and that, and the other airline on something else. That's up to the new owners to decide, not CINTRA !

Ricardo
 
N405MX
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 am

SR117 you´re right, at this time CINTRA only can give some orders to MX or AM, but in a few month´s, the new owners will decide about this let´s see what happens
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
JJJM
Posts: 198
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:59 am

I totally agree on SR117....changes will really come when both airlines are sold.

Right now, it´s preparing cleaning and polishing both airlines for the sale, just like when we sell a car, we wash it and polish it before selling.

This has been the most realistic and intelligent move by Cintra.

Everyone will benefit from this, customers, government, employees and MEXICO!!!!

Hope there is no more drastic changes.

Regards JJJM
 
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ERJ170
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AM And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:23 am

Latest news...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050208/mexico_airlines_1.html

Looks like Aeromexico and Aerolitoral sold together..
Looks like Mexicana, a new LCC, and AeroCaribe sold together....
Looks like Ground services unit Servicios de Apoyo en Tierra will be sold independently
Aiming High and going far..
 
Arcano
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:20 am

Hi Mexico

If the two major airlines will be sold individually, why leave them one for domestic and the other for international?

Wouldn't be better to make the market rule and force them to finally compete properly?
Besides, what would do AM with the coming 777s in the domestic market, already served based on MD80s and 757s?

After reading the above link I don't imply that AM will remail domestic and MX international anyway.

Another question; what does the Mexican regulation say about the investors in aviation? is there any restriction for foreing capital to own a Mexican airline? Would be possible to see, let's say CO, CM, TA, LA, IB or whoever entering in Mexican market?

Saludos! )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
ghost77
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:18 pm

To Reply 5:

The plan was to merge MX and AM and sell them ASAP. And yes they are part of the same group called CINTRA. Both airlines are government owned, both were saved from bankruptcy and the Tequila crisis and now its time for the sale.

Here's a link with more info about MX and AM: (Spanish - as soon as CINTRA translate it on their English site I'll post the link.)

http://www.cintra.com.mx/pdfs/Estrategia_transformacion_Cintra.pdf

To Reply 6:

How big MX LCC will be? The new LCC will be named AeroCaribe, they will fly a fleet of 10 F100s along with 09 Dc9s for the moment. But In the future it's highly probable as soon as lease contracts expire, QA will get more Fokkers.

Reply 7:

Yes, AM will stay with Skyteam.

Reply 10:

AM and MX will both have domestic and international flights. Nothing to worry about.

Reply 20:

B777s are for long haul routes. AM will not quit international destinations.

In Mexico's aviation there's a limit to only a 25% of foreign investment.

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Airlinerfreak
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:34 pm

Money says that MX is going to be purchased by AA. This is evident as MX is planning to start service to DFW and they are now doing that codeshare. I think it would be a great buy for AA as it would allow AA priority on routes? Also it would allow for upgrades more easily and business travelers to fly to Mexico much easier. Anyone agree?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:35 pm

Hi guys, interesting developments. My biggest hope is that, after concluding the sale, the market will prove that there is room for two large carriers. In any case, I am very happy that the two brands will subsist and that the two companies will compete once the sale is completed.

Andrés, I see no reason why AM would withdraw from SkyTeam. It is a great feeder for DL and CO, as well as a great partner for AF so my opinion is that AM really needs to stay in SkyTeam.

Jay, both carriers used to be separate and privately owned until the owners/management of AM decided to buy MX and create a behemoth. The combined giant (still separate identities) failed and after bankruptcy it was only a matter of time until it was taken over by governmental agencies. Since the nineties, the government has been the majority owner of the carriers' holding company and has been trying to sell them since 2001. In addition, everybody (unions, people, etc.) would have tried to stop any attempt to merge them into a single carrier if that meant the elimination of one of the identities since both brands have a lot of tradition and history.

Arcano, there is a limit of 25% foreign investment in commercial airlines in Mexico and frankly I don't see any plans to change this (any such plans would be ill-fated in my opinion given the current composition of Congress).

I did notice that one of the articles sort of hints that Cintra intends to position MX as an international carrier while positioning AM as a domestic-focused airline. I don't think this will happen because doing so would hurt the chances of Cintra getting a fair price for the airlines. I think AM's routes to places such as CDG, MAD, SCL, GRU, JFK, IAH, MIA and LAX make it a very attractive airline to potential investors so both airlines should continue offering both domestic and international routes like they do as of today.

I sincerely wish that this is the last sudden change of plans for AM and MX, and that the shareholders of Cintra (indirectly us the taxpayers) recoup at least a portion of the huge losses that our flag carriers have sustained lately. Moreover, I wish the future has great things in store for the new, independent and separate carriers.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:09 pm

Eddiedude,

What CINTRA wants to explain or at least what they really mean is that they are kind of trying to explain that MX will be an international carrier due to the fact and the importance and leadership in the MEX-US, MEX-Canada and MEX-Latam market.

As for AM we all know that they are true leaders inside the country with AM strong network in MEX, MTY, HMO accompanied with a very effective and strong network in Aerolitoral. More over, I've been told AM/5D will make effective their 25 option order with Embraer in order to replace the last turboprops in the fleet, exactly 22 Saab 340s. So now everything is making perfect sense! About time!

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Airlinerfreak
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:28 pm

Is there a posibility that Sir Carlitos Slim will take intrest in one of these airlines than purchase it and manage it with his great abilities. What are the projections for who is going to purchase the airline and how it is going to have a benefit to the government by selling it?

Thanks
 
EddieDude
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:33 pm

I share your opinion Ghost, but clearly the language in the Reuters/Yahoo article is unfortunate and can be construed differently, hence my posting; after reading it, it became clear to me why some people were inclined to think that the airlines would be refocused.

The second article in English is more adequate in the sense that it highlights the strength of MX in the international market and the leadership of AM in the domestic market without implying that they will focus on just one type of operations.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:36 pm

News! AeroCaribe will be renamed!

http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?idc=166144

Proposed names: A100D por Mexicana, Clic por Mexicana or Vía por Mexicana.

I cast my vote to A100D by Mexicana followed by Clic by Mexicana.

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:52 pm

This is a wise move. The sale of MX and AM together was a weird idea designed to be a huge management problem for the new owner.

On the other hand...

I´m not the brightest person around, but I did understand the statement by CINTRA very clearly as EddieDude explains it on reply 26.

So be careful, guys and don´t come up with false allegations.

Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
JOSEMEX
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:52 pm

>Proposed names: A100D por Mexicana, Clic por Mexicana or Vía por Mexicana.<

Well, I thought the names couldn't get any worse than "Aeronacional", but I guess I was wrong.

What the h*ll is A100D supposed to mean? "Asciende" ("Ascend")? Or "A-100-D" like in "A-100-Dolares todas nuestras rutas" ? It took me 10 minutes to figure that out! Who came up with that "name"? The same marketing executive who came up with "KCT" for "cassette" or "RBD" for "Rebelde"? It sounds more like a digital camera's model number. And, of course, it will be all but impossible for non-spanish speakers to say that "name".

They might as well name it "Aerovaro...casi como ir en carro" (it's a low-cost carrier, isn't it)  Pissed

[Edited 2005-02-09 07:55:50]

[Edited 2005-02-09 07:58:50]
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm

If you think A100D sounds bad in Spanish, try it in English. DARN!

Please tell me that name wasn't the work of Landor, if so, their corporate identity practise is screwed...

-WGW2707
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:35 pm

My speculations; predictions; fortune telling; card readings for the future of the Mexican airlines.

Mexicana/AeroCaribe:

I think that it's highly probable that the Mexicana group will be sold to a Mexican/Spanish party led by Iberia, in which the Spanish company will be able to hold the 25% stake allowed by Mexican corporate law, the rest will stay in Mexican hands, "but with a strong Spanish backing,". The other partner will be Mexican, but with strong Spanish connections. I do see the new LLC carrier as having a lot of problems in the beginning, but things will sort themselves out. This carrier will be used to fight of incumbent new airlines, 95% of which will not last too long.


AeroMexico/AeroLitoral:

I see a pretty big Mexican name who is really interested in this one. This person sees AeroMexico as a prestigious asset and will invest in the carrier the necessary funds to make it a success. This enables AeroMexico to
open its doors in many more cities in Europe as this investor is adamant and serious about this company having a strong international presence abroad. AeroLitoral, has a bit of trouble at first, but then finds its own niche and focuses on being able to serve more U.S. destinations with regional jets.


Just having fun with this. Let's see if I'm at least half right!

 Smile LatinPlane


Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:58 pm

Please tell me that name wasn't the work of Landor, if so, their corporate identity practise is screwed...

I'm curious to hear why you said this. I'm not a fan of Landor now. They did some good corporate identities in the past though. I guess once you're famous you can make rubbish and still be on demand.

All three proposed names are bad, if not horrible. Indeed I woudln't be surprised if Landor was behind these proposals..

I myself am more a fan of traditional names. Mex-Express, Aerolineas de Mexico, something like that, even maybe Asciende, perhaps Vias, but A100D? Clic por Mexicana? What??

why don't they don't just call it 'Montense'  Nuts
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:18 am

Mmmm, funny names, but maybe none of them will get, like "aeronacional", but let´s see.

Somebody ask about Carlos Slim, he has part of MX auctions, so there is no bad idea to consider him as a potential buyer of MX

Regards
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:50 am

Latinplane:
I see a pretty big Mexican name who is really interested in this one.

Who's interested in AM??? I heard long time ago that Olegario Vazquez Raña... but who else?
I know Slim is indeed interested in MX... but it seems that MX will end up with either their Spanish or American partners... which is not very likely with AM (I think DL and CO already said "no thanks")...

[Edited 2005-02-09 19:52:45]
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:50 am

So far I know, IB continues interested in investing over MX. But this CINTRA issue is always a bit difficult to understand it... it is like a "culebrón" (culebrón is the Spanish word which defines all TV series with more than 100 endless chapters type "Dallas" or "Los ricos tb lloran")

José, of course I agree with you:A veces me dá la impresión de que no tienen ni puñetera idea de lo que van a hacer con las dos compañías...
Eduardo....Because it, I listened rumours about the AM/SkyT issue. But, of course, the best for AM is remaining as a SkyT member.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:08 am

Airlinefreak:

I don't think AA has the money to invest in MX or any other airline for that matter. Evermore, as a foreign entity they can't legally get more than 25% of the airline, which is a big mistake in my opinion. Who would risk their money if they can't control the airline?

Ghost77 and WGW2707:

My vote goes for Aeronacional. It sounds far better than the new propositions. Low cost doesn't mean cheap, if you know what I mean.

AM001:

Oh my... hope you are wrong about Olegario Vazquez Raña. If he would handle AM as he handles his hospitals, only the very, very, very affluent would get to fly. Wait a minute, that wouldn't be so different after all! Nuts

The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:03 am

I still don't understand what's so wrong with the name Aerocaribe. In my opinion it is a good name. Okay, so one could argue that the name implies it is a carrier focused only on some routes to the Caribbean and that therefore it is not a nationwide carrier, but does that matter after all? It will already be expensive to carry out the restructure of CINTRA to, in addition, rename QA, come up with a new livery, repaint the planes, order new stationary, legal expenses, etc.

Grupo Ángeles has been mentioned repeatedly as a possible bidder for one of the airlines. Apparently for them the synergies that the ownership of a national carrier and of the Camino Real hotel chain offer are potentially very high.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
anxebla
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:06 am

Is grupo "Ángeles" totally mexican, Eduardo?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6166
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:17 am

I believe so Andrés; their website proudly states that it is a 100% Mexican company. Grupo Empresarial Ángeles is the Vázquez family holding company. They own hospitals & laboratories, hotels & restaurants, and radio broadcasting stations. In addition, I believe that the Vázquez family owns other businesses such as furniture stores.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Am And MX Now To Be Sold Separately.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:21 am

Aeronacional sounds "good", but you have to check if the public likes it, sometimes the name helps.

About the name Aerocaribe, time ago Emilio Romano (MX CEO) said that the name of aerocaribe will be changed because of the new routes they want to get with it, so almost all the people relates Aerocaribe with the mexican Caribbean, despite that QA was flying to MXL, SJD, MZT, and other destinations

How about if the names proposed by CINTRA are not other experiment to see which names works or not???

Regards
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....