remymartin11
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:51 am

Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:51 am

Does anyone have any idea why Delta gates 1 & 2 at LGA are "tug" gates that require engine shut down and tow in? There seems to be plenty of room there for the pilot to get in. I would trust the pilot a whole heck of a lot more than the half-baked ground crew.

Nothing like being an hour late into LGA, taking 20 minutes to taxi and then having to cool your heels another 10-15 minutes while they tow you the last 100 feet.

What a joke!
 
LGA777
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:46 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:56 am

Gate 2 is power in, Gate in 1 I think is power in but might be tow in for the 764.

Regards LGA777
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:21 am

LGA777 is right, only gate one is tug-in because of the close proximity of the wall behind it that clearly says "NO JET BLAST".

Also, I happen to be a ramp supervisor for DL (not at LGA) and I would have to say that the majority of us are not "half-baked" and are quite capable of the responsibilities of our job; especially when it comes to towing a/c in tight quarters. I fly into LGA all the time and it has never taken more than approx 2 mins after engine shutdown for us to be hooked up and on the way into the gate just a couple of mins later.

Furthermore, I also happen to be a pilot myself so I would never stereotype them but when was the last time you heard about a ramp agent failing a breathalizer? Im not suggesting that all airline pilots are alcoholics by any stretch, but get your facts straight before you say things like that.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:23 am

BTW...I meant to say gate 2 is tug-in not 1
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:24 am

In my experience, Gate 1 at LGA is tug-in. I agree that the delay is annoying. But then again, all DL opps at LGA are annoying. That terminal sure is undersized and overcrowded for the size operation DL run there!
 
delta fly boy
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 7:16 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:08 am

Only gate 1 at LGA requires engine shut down and a tow in. The reason for this is the close proximity to the building extension to the left of gate 1, and because off the ground equipment that is surrounding gate 1. Gate 2 usually does not require engine shut down prior to gate arrival.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:18 am

I know the wait can be annoying, and it often seems like 10-15 minutes. But in reality, I have never waited more than 90 seconds for a tug. (Remember, 90 seconds can feel like an eternity when in a hurry).
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:31 am

is there a specific gate the 764 must go in or can it fit in any of the gates?
 
jumbojet
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:32 am

Maybe DL will take over the US Air terminal
 
bpat777
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:40 am

Ive only seen DL's 764's at Gate 3 at LGA..
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:44 am

I have been on a DL 764 that got towed to gate 1; I think they only use 1 and 3.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
boeingatl
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:23 am

Often on a midafternoon 757 arrival, we've been 'tugged" into 1. I hate that the door at the end of the jetway dumps you into the far end of the gate area. All those passengers waiting for the turnaround flight back to ATL.
boeingATL
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:55 am

Sigh. Compared to the rest of LGA, the DL terminal is like PARADISE. I fly at least bi-weekly between ATL and NY. I have never waited more than two minutes for the tow. The vastly longer wait is caused by dork passengers who think they are in *church* when deboarding. Delta does an outstanding job at LGA, especially given the complexities of operating at that airport. Next time you want to complain about the DL terminal, stand in a 45 minute line for the (count 'em) TWO metal detectors on the AA, Airtran, ATA, Spirit, etc. "finger" of the main terminal at LGA.

The question (why is there a tow-in gate) is fair and interesting, but the rest of the editorial content therein and in some responses seems juvenile and to be basically know-nothing whining by folks who don't do this very often. (The door is in the wrong place in the terminal? Puh-leese. You're at Gate 1 -- closest to the taxis. Just push the waiting passengers out of the way, go down the escalator, ignore the gypsy cab drivers ("Need a taxi?") and go straight to the plentiful yellow cabs outside. Total time from exiting the a/c -- 3 minutes. That's pretty dang good anywhere.)

BTW, there are other tow-in gates at other terminals at LGA -- it's all about maximizing the number of gates in a limited space.

--Bill
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 3934
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:17 pm

Bill,

As a pilot for an airline based in the CTB at LGA--ur overview of ops there is quite off. The AA finger or Concourse D has 4 detectors. The UA finger or Concourse C has 5 or 6 detectors. Concourse B just got a new and spacious security area. And concourse A has at least 4 detectors.

This tops a major rennovation completed in the late 90s. The fingers will all be torn down and rebuilt over the next few years.

As someone who has used LGA my whole life, the DL terminal with its brown floors, dark baggage claim, 1980s signage, and tight check-in hall is a disgrace and an embarassment to NYC and to LGA.

Best to Worst:

1. US AIR
2. CTB
3. MAT
4. DL

PJ
 
boeingatl
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:30 pm

Wijcandee - so glad to hear of your uniform good experiences with LGA and DL. Mine are for the most part good as well. I think most passengers would not even notice the "delay" if it weren't for the F/A or Captain announcing the tow, with the usual "remain in your seats." Most times tugs are waiting. Sometimes, like at other large hubs, you can wait for the gate or its service. Just look out the windows and you can see how close you are to the terminal, walls and ground crew. There's not a hairpiece in the world that could survive that blast.

As for the breeze through the terminal, past the hacks and the line at the cab stand, that depends on the time of day, luck and how patient or impatient you are. Deplaning from Gate 1 always reminds me of reaching the end of the escalator and someone stops. It would be nice if the gate agents would try to keep the area clear.
boeingATL
 
SHUPirate1
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:33 pm

Wicandee-which finger is that? AA uses Concourse D on their own along with much of C (United has the hammerhead at Concourse C), while the rest of the airlines you rattled off use Concourse B.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:45 pm

JFKLGANYC: I stand corrected. I should have said the "ATA, Airtran, Spirit, Frontier, United, Midwest and now JetBlue" finger. If it now has more than two detectors, great. One reason I basically stopped flying Airtran *from* LGA (although not *to* it) was that security line. (On the return, Airtran's place is fine, even if it's at the furthest possible point from the street. One critique -- at DL, there are always a million cabs in the lot, if not, there are certainly plenty even for the last flights in; at the central terminal (the new name), it takes a few minutes for the globs of cabs to arrive once the folks start spilling onto the street). I'll admit that I haven't flown American or Continental from LGA in years; query if 4 detectors is enough for AA's operation at LGA, though.

I still like the DL/NW terminal very much. While USAir is prettier, I don't think that it is as functional. The (relatively-few) times that I have flown from there, I noticed how far I seem to have to walk from where the cab dropped me in front until I finally made it through the gate. There seemed to be lots of big open spaces, but it seemed like their sole purpose was to make me walk even further to the gate. At the DL terminal (which admittedly isn't the snazziest-looking), I just get out of the cab, go straight to a kiosk for 30 seconds (or check-in before I leave home and go straight to security), walk to the lightly-used rear security line (which used to be the first class line), and go to the gates. To me, at least, the walk is quick and easy compared to USAir.

I happily defer with respect to the airlines that I haven't flown in years. And I'm probably just used to the DL routine, and thus just zip through every time. I personally prefer that DL spent money on technology like kiosks and the flight information plasma monitors, rather than on decor. While it might just be that it's what I'm used to, I think that the DL operation is remarkably consistent, professional and reliable. There are things that I think that Delta could do better, but on an average day the ground operation and terminal at LGA do everything that I could reasonably ask. For what it's worth.

Best,

Bill
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:03 pm

SHUP -- You're right. AA isn't in that finger. And I haven't seen UA there even though the PA web site says it is. Maybe they're leasing out a gate or something. You're all right that I indicted the whole central terminal based on my experience with that one area, and probably haven't given the PA credit for the time and effort that they've spent working on it. While they were doing so, and there was all that construction mess with the garage, etc., I would just head over to Delta with a smile. And when I went back to fly ATA and Airtran, it just looked like a nicer version of the same crowded, slow, challenging area to fly from. So my positive impression of Delta remained (as they haven't screwed me yet at LGA), and my impression of the central terminal didn't improve.

Guess that's why "goodwill" is so valuable an asset to a company and a brand.

BOEINGATL: I was probably too harsh. You're describing something that you have experienced that is doubtless a drag, and you're right as to the solution. I'm the guy in front of you singing out "Let's GOOOOOO, Make A Hooooole. Coming throooooooogh." That usually gets a few chuckles and a bit of shuffling out of the way. Folks in ATL are often wayyyyy too polite to do that!  Smile

Best,

Bill
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:34 am

What would really be great would be if DL had its terminal all to itself instead of giving 4 gates to NWA.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
boeingatl
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:44 am

Hey Wjcandee - no hard feelings. Actually I was miffed, but calmed after reading your second post. It was too late in the eve to reply and acknowledge the softer choice of words. LOL. Just because I live in ATL, doesn't mean I'm from the south. My roots do show sometimes, and I'm not talking hair color!
boeingATL
 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:18 am

What would really be great would be if DL had its terminal all to itself instead of giving 4 gates to NWA.

Does anyone know the genesis of this arrangement? Who leases these gates to NWA, the Port Authority or DL? Does DL really have enough slots at LGA to use the extra space?
 
delta fly boy
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 7:16 pm

RE: Delta Gates 1 & 2 At LGA

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:23 pm

This is Delta's Gate Parkin Plan for LGA

Gate 1:
A/C types:
MD-88 - Not Allowed
B737-300 - Not Allowed: Aircraft sensor to close to jetway
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - L1 door only
B767-200 - Not available with B767-400 on gate 3
B767-300 - Not available with B767-400 on gate 3
B767-400 - Not Allowed
ALL CRJ's - Only one at a time

Gate 2:
A/C types:
MD-88 - No restrictions
B737-200 - No restrictions
B737-300 - No restrictions
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - L1 Door Only
B767-200 - No restrictions
B767-300 - No restrictions
B767-400 - Not Allowed
ALL CRJ'S - Only one at a time

Gate 3:
A/C types:
MD-88 - No restrictions
B737-200 - No restrictions
B737-300 - No restrictions
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - L2 Door Only
B767-200 - No restrictions
B767-300 - No restrictions
B767-400 - Cannot have B767-200 or -300 on gate 1 (L2 Door Only)
ALL CRJ's - Only one at a time

Gate 4:
A/C types:
MD-88 - No restrictions
B737-200 - No restrictions
B737-300 - No restrictions
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - L2 Door Only
B767-200 - No restrictions
B767-300 - No restrictions
B767-400 - Not Allowed
ALL CRJ'S - Only one at a time

Gate 5:
A/C types:
MD-88 - No restrictions
B737-200 - No restrictions
B737-300 - No restrictions
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - L1 Door Only
B767-200 - Not Allowed
B767-300 - Not Allowed
B767-400 - Not Allowed
ALL CRJ'S - Only one at a time

Gate 6:
A/C types:
MD-88 - No restrictions
B737-200 - No restrictions
B737-300 - No restrictions
B737-800 - No restrictions
B757 - Not Allowed
B767-200 - Not Allowed
B767-300 - Not Allowed
B767-300 - Not Allowed
B767-400 - Not Allowed

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