777DadandJr
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:37 am

Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:52 am

I have a question. When an airline has to ferry an engine for a repair, do they just strap it on a regular commercial flight, or do they send it on an empty a/c?
What kind of effect does having a fifth engine, say on a 747, have on controlling the a/c? How does the crew compensate for the unbalanced load?
My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:54 am

I haven't seen a fifth engine for years. Can it be done on a 747-400 or A340? I don't think the MD11 could do it (Tristar definitely YES and DC10 not sure). No way would a twin be able to handle it, and it's mostly twins these days.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Avianca
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:57 am

mostly engines are trasported as Service-Cargo on own freighter flights or also on freighter flights from other airlines. And if its really urgent it receive the status "AOG" Aircraft on ground and the engine receive the highest priority on that flight...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:00 am

This is quite the opposite scenario, but I though I would add it in:


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Photo © Norman Gage



As for engines needing repairs, I have heard of four-holers ferrying their own engine with only three engines operative. This is of course without passengers, and needs special checks to make sure the other engines are running perfectly. As for twins and others, I have no idea.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
pictues
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:41 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:02 am

Cedarjet, yes the B747-400 can transport a fifth engine, don't think the A340 can. Although I don't think AIrlines Carry the fifth airline anymore. As AVianca says they will use their frieghters or buy space on another carriers frieghter. I have also known of Airlines chartering an aircraft to transport an engine if that is the only option and they have a AOG.
 
cedarjet
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Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:03 am

The Tristar could be ferried with an engine out, an Eastern Airlines L1011 was being ferried on two engines back to base when a second engine died on rotation. This is on a hot day in Mexico City, a high altitude airport. They made it round the circuit and never reached more than 400 feet above the ground. Nice bit of flying, those three guys sure earned their paycheck that day.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Avianca
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:06 am

what is intresting to see is that the airlines often do not use there own space and buy it from other airline, because they can sold there own space on a higher rate level what is the buying rate on the local marekt for the transportation with an other carrier. like LH uses BA too send the engines...

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:15 pm

18 Wheels a haul'n..!!

I can't tell you the number of aircraft engines I've seen on the back of 18 wheelers. It's not as fast, but far cheaper and if time allows its the preferred method.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:45 pm

A friend of mine who is a pilot once had a major engine malfucntion just as it was being shut down while taxiing at PHL.

So how did the replacement get ferried in? It came on a flatbed truck from JFK, and the bad engine went back the same way.
 
pictues
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:41 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:56 pm

A couple weeks ago Cathay had an engine fail on their B747, had a problem they couldn't fix so they cancelled the flight, they brought the engine on their HKG-ANC-JFK Freighter, they had it stop in YVR.
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:37 pm

Pratt used Polar air cargo to ship most of the engines coming into East Hartford via air circa 2001. EMBQA has a point, 18 wheelers move quite a few engines in the US. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been stuck on the 405 next to a 18 wheeler hauling a high bypass turbofan on the way to LAX. (Always going south on the 405 I've noted...) I do not know the breakdown of air freight to pure ground transportation.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
hailstone
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:29 pm

i knew that i had seen this somewhere:


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Photo © Don Boyd

 
hailstone
Posts: 381
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:45 pm

and this of course:


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Photo © Craig Murray

 
andrewtang
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 8:51 pm

RE: Engine Ferrying

Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:17 pm

5th pod on the 747 is restricted to Rolls-Royce and Pratt&Whittney engines only. Some airlines still prefer to use it if there is a need, like Qantas.

The operating speed will decrease when 5th pod is used.
 
HNL
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:14 am

Growing up in Honolulu I can recall several instances being on a UA 747 from HNL to SFO and peering out the window to see the 5th engine hanging off the wing. I thought it was the coolest thing. The flight crew also made special announcements about it's presence.

I suspect that is a rare sighting (sans the GE Test 747 that appears from time to time) in HNL as UA doesn't send 747s to HNL much these days.
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
airgeek12
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:30 am

I think most airlines use their own freighters or buy space on another cargo airline.

QUESTION:

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

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Photo © Craig Murray



Kinda freaky there! :p

geek
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:33 am

I suspect that is a rare sighting (sans the GE Test 747 that appears from time to time) in HNL as UA doesn't send 747s to HNL much these days.

When GE tested the GE-90, they replaced the number 2 engine with the test engine, and didn't add a fifth one.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:38 am

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

Creepy..!!  Big grin Gotta love time laps photography.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
trex8
Posts: 4578
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:41 am

flew LHR to HKG years ago on a BA 747 with a 5th engine
 
vatveng
Posts: 1092
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:19 am

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

There's another one behind the engine, in the right-center of the pic.
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:12 pm


I have seen several engines arriving at ORD on the back of a flatbed truck. Also noticed several in the freight warehouses, which presumably came by air.

I would suspect they are shipped the most cost effective way!
 
TKMCE
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:42 pm

As far as I remember, the Air India 747 which was brought down by the terrorists off Shannon way back in 1985, was ferrying a fifth inoperative engine. I think the extra time takebn for this procedure while on ground at YYZ (or was it during the stop pver at YMQ?) ultimately proved disastrous l as the subsequent delay meant the aircraft exploded off Shannon. If it was running on time, then the explosion would have happened while on ground at LHR (which seemrd to be the terrorists intention - as another bomb exploded at Narita on the same day while the bags were being transferred from a CP Air flight to an Air India one).



[Edited 2005-02-10 07:42:45]
 
dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:02 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:24 pm

TKMCE, an accident like that Involving a PAN-AM 747 crashed only about 50 to 60 miles away from where i am now. Although the aircraft wasn't carrying a fifth engine it was blown up over Lockerbie but the terrorists intentions were for it to blow up over the Atlantic. This flight was also running late.

And the ghost in the pics, cool and freaky!!

Dog
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:34 pm

Now does any UA employee know the answer to this question;

Do Boeing a/c get priority and special arrangements on FX flights due to their contract with FX and their HUGE engine facility over at SFO? Was just in the hangers a few day back and there was a 777 all opened up, surprise surprise! I found 2 engines hidden in the corner that were supposed to go onto the a/c.

Cool way with the 5th pod I must say!

Thanks again.
Ua777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Likesplanes
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 3:58 am

RE: Engine Ferrying

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:22 am

Actually, if you look closely you will see that there are 3 "ghosts" in the photo supplied by hailstone. One to the left, and two more to the right of center. You can see one on the wall of the plane, and part of one to the right, just behind the equipment.
 
incitatus
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RE: Engine Ferrying

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:34 am


Here is another very informative photo:


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Photo © Fred Seggie




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HaveBlue
Posts: 2104
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: Engine Ferrying

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:04 pm

I spend a good deal of time on Florida's Interstate system for my job. Seeing high by-pass turbofans going north or south on I-95 is fairly common, presumably going to MIA, FLL or MCO.
Here Here for Severe Clear!