calvin99
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 5:20 pm

Lion Air Indonesia

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:03 am

According to www.justplanes.com Lion Air of Indonesia will start Jakarta - Depnasar - Manila - Seoul service as well as Jakarta - Denpasar - Manila - Pusan. I am wondering what type of aircrafts will Lion Air utilize? and is this news accurate?

From what I know, Lion Air only operates B737-400 and MD-82.. Is Lion Air planning to use B737-400 for such a long sector??

Calvin
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:04 am

Calvin,

When Lion Air is concerned, it is better to adopt a "one ear in and out the other" attitude. They have many grand plans but very little have come true so far (purchase of 777s for one).

For a company that advertises in the press that their 2nd hand Continental MD83s were produced in 1996, you know something isn't right.
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mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:22 am

It appears that they will use the 734 for this. They're getting some high gross weight versions as far as I know, but this is not confirmed... Also some JT crew seems to be in MNL at the moment, I think it's for "familiarisation"...

However, as with most other Lion announcement... "believe it when U see it" is a good attitude to adopt. However, they have had 4 734s coming in...

Would an MD90 make MNL-Korea? Sources inside Lion said they may be getting 1 next month and 1 or 2 more before the end of the year...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
calvin99
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:39 am

Yes, I know that Lion Air is more a believe it when u see kind of airline.. however, www.justplanes.com is tend to be a very reliable source.. thats why I am curios on what type of aircrafts will Lion Air use..

However, for once, Lion Air has won some respect from a lot of business ppl in Indonesia.. my Dad and his co-worker will be the example..

After Lion Air incident in Solo, Lion Air has promised to pay all of the tuition expense for all of children whose their parents were unforunately died in the incident.. in addition to a certain amount of money that they paid each family..

Also.. MD82/83s are very reliable aircraft.. AA for example still operates a large number of the types.. In addition, Lion Air is one of the fastest growing in Indonesia, they revolutionize Indonesia's aviation sector and a lot of people travelled on the plane for the first time with Lion Air..

So is Lion Air that bad? I don't really think so..
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:55 pm

This announcement has been in the newspaper here in Indonesia last Sunday, together with the unveiling of a B744 model in full Lion Air colors... Take both topics for what they're worth but I'll believe it when I see it. Also, according to this same newspaper article, the flight should have started last Sunday, February 6, but so far nothing has happened...


However, for once, Lion Air has won some respect from a lot of business ppl in Indonesia..

I don't know what kind of business people you are talking about, but they are for sure not the ones I am talking to. As a matter of fact, Lion's numbers have been falling in recent months -international load factors, in particular, have been dropping- and the accident in Solo as well as last week's loss of yet another MD82 in Makassar have done no good in upgrading their image. They're a shoddy airline serving an increasingly shoddy customer base.


After Lion Air incident in Solo, Lion Air has promised to pay all of the tuition expense for all of children whose their parents were unforunately died in the incident.. in addition to a certain amount of money that they paid each family..

I would think that this is so obvious that it isn't even worth mentioning. Issues related to insurance with Indonesian LCCs, and in general with Indonesia at large, are questionable at best. Nobody really knows in how far passengers and their relatives are covered in case calamities like these. My guess is that they are, at least for domestic flights with non-IATA LC cariers, very close to not covered at all.

So, if anyone was going to come up with the money, it would have to be the airline. They've said they would do so, they've spread the message all over the media. Now, the question is really... are they really going to do it, and if so, when? There's often a large gap between words and deeds in Indonesia. Talking the talk is not always followed by walking the walk...


In addition, Lion Air is one of the fastest growing in Indonesia, they revolutionize Indonesia's aviation sector and a lot of people travelled on the plane for the first time with Lion Air..

For starters, they are not as fast growing as their well-oiled PR-machine would like you to believe. If all the announcements in newspapers et al had become reality, Lion Air would have been the proud operator of a fleet of about 60 aircraft by now, including widebodied B777, A330 and B747 aircraft. Yet, after the loss of another airframe last week, they are now down to, I believe, 19 units. New blood is about to come in, but there goes the theory of the fastest growing airline. FYI, Garuda last year added 14 B737 to its fleet and is about to do the same this year.

As for their revolutionizing of the aviation sector in Indonesia, I would give you a little more credit for that remark, but, once again, let's not get carried away. There's plenty of other airlines around, with equally low fares, that have given thousands of Indonesians a first chance of using air travel. So, to attribute this merit solely to Lion Air is a bit over the top.

As for the ever returning argument that it is because of Lion that fares are as low as they are, and that it is the only airline that is truly committed to offering its passengers low fares, it is time for everyone to realize that the facts have time and time again flown in the face of this nonstory. Just one recent example to illustrate my point: over a month ago, when the tsunami struck Indonesia's northernmost provice of Aceh, Lion increased its fares to Aceh within hours to more than the double of what they were. Meanwhile, Garuda, Adam Air and other were flying in relief workers and cargo for free.


So is Lion Air that bad? I don't really think so..

With all due respect, I don't think you are in the right position to make such a statement. And I don't blame you for that, because people all over tend to be blinded by Lion's fabulous PR. Yet, if one scratches that thin layer on top, one quickly find oneself in a shithole full of dirty stories, which are being covered up by the company at any cost.


 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:46 pm

So is Lion Air that bad? I don't really think so.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/41675
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/41789

Lets just say that after these 2 flights with them, I am not in a hurry to return to their planes (especially their planes!)
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RobK
Posts: 3233
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:23 pm

Lion Air took delivery of B734 cn 24123 only a few days ago. It's ex Futura's EC-GRX.

Current PK- reg not yet known. If anyone does know it I'd appreciate being put in the picture please.

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink/being sarcastic
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Lion Air Indonesia

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:26 pm

Lets just say that after these 2 flights with them, I am not in a hurry to return to their planes

... and I am pretty sure that plenty of Lion passengers with a certain sense of service and safety are reasoning in exactly the same way. Yet, Lion Air, despite an increasing number of mishaps coming out in the open, continues to attract a certain type of passenger, which will go for unreasonably low fares, even if these come at the expense of rudimentary service and safety standards.

I have never really understood this kind of attitude, whereby people willingly seem to jeopardize their own safety; but, if one then looks at other forms of public transportation in Indonesia (buses, trains, ferries) which often attract thousands of commuters in spite of the shabbiest of conditions, then one can't help but concluding that these people's treshhold of service and safety is at a different level than that of many others. The sad fact is that the value of a human life in a country like Indonesia is not all that great and the fact that Lion Air, and others, continue to get away with what they're doing is just a painful consequence of this attitude.

It was reported in the newspaper this morning that Lion's Solo crash was likely the result of the combination of the questionable state of the airport's runway and the malfunctioning of the aircraft's spoiler and reverser systems. One would think that these conclusions would be followed up by an action plan at the airline and airport involved. I bet you they won't...