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keesje
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:36 pm

Any additional info on this one?

Emirates, which operates other 777 models, including the 777-300ER, is also evaluating an extended range A340-500 that Airbus is now offering customers.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/211255_air09.html

Would it be a good idea ? Seems to me the small A350/772LR market hardly justifies investments, or .. might Boeing have a viable selling point with the extra range ?

BTW how is ETOPS330 progressing, any news?



http://www.airbus.com/video/media/advertising/clouds.mpg
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Boeing7E7
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:53 pm

Continually.

Airbus just seems to want to be everything to everyone. Boeing has proved you can't really do that anymore. How many aircraft does this make for Airbus???? Who was saying not but a year or two that airlines want simplicity? Forgot their own lesson or what?

Airlines want simplification, not 10 different variants.
 
gkirk
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:55 pm

On a similar note, Whats going to happen to the SQ 345s when they are replaced by the 772LR anyway? Could AC or EK take some?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Planesmart
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:06 pm

The A35 has greater underwing ground clearance for larger diameter engines. Perhaps the A36 has been discussed with existing A34 operators permitting new engine options.
 
cedarjet
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:45 pm

Boeing787: "Airbus just seems to want to be everything to everyone. Boeing has proved you can't really do that anymore." Yeah nice one - Airbus are everything to everyone (A318 to A380 and all sizes in between), and how exactly are Boeing proving you "can't really do that anymore"? By giving away market share, by going from being the uncontested leader to second place, with half of their remaining programmes winding down (one 767 being built every two months, no 747 orders for three years).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
gigneil
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:55 pm

This isn't a new plane. Its a 380t gross weight option, developed for the A340-600.

The 777 is available in a pretty wide range of MTOWs, hell, even 737s are.

As was previously mentioned, start contributing something valuable or stop posting so much.

N
 
zvezda
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:05 pm

Cedarjet, how does Airbus cover all the sizes in between the A340-600 and the A380-800? I think it takes a single deck aircraft with seating of more than 8 across to fill that size gap. I don't see Airbus developing anything in that size range, but who knows? Boeing could stretch either the B777 or the B747 to fill that gap. Or Boeing could develop a replacement for both the B777-300 and the B747 that could cover that gap.

That said, I'm glad Airbus is improving the A340-500. I've flown it with SQ and like the plane. I wouldn't want the B777-200LR to be free of competition because that would mean higher prices for me.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:08 pm

I suppose the key question is this one: will this A345HGW be able to fly LHR-SYD-LHR with significant payload? If yes, there is a good market. If not, well, the market is going to be tiny...
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
A350
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:38 pm

I suppose the key question is this one: will this A345HGW be able to fly LHR-SYD-LHR with significant payload? If yes, there is a good market. If not, well, the market is going to be tiny...

In any case, both the 772LR and the A345 are niche aircraft, but that's ok since they are simply shrinked versions of the 773ER and A346, respectively. Same applies for the A345HGW, for which Airbus only transferred technology from the A346. For those types you don't need high sales numbers to break even.

A350
 
cheekie747girl
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:49 pm

A340-500 also has the option of an additional centre fuel tank located in the aircraft freight bay, fitted in a modular manner, similar to the removeable lower-deck main crew rest area (but obviously a permanent fitting!)

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Big Boeing Birds are Best
 
dennys
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:50 pm

Very true for LHR - SYD , but also for PAR - PPT !

denn
 
greaser
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:53 pm

For those types you don't need high sales numbers to break even.
That's true. I believe the 777-200LR has already been covered by the 777-300ER sales.

However, with all these new toys Airbus has for their A345, by 2006 we'll be at Airbus A345LR ER PIP HGW...
Another reason for the -200LR to be pushed to 10000nm..
Now you're really flying
 
PHXinterrupted
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:58 pm

"Yeah nice one - Airbus are everything to everyone (A318 to A380 and all sizes in between), and how exactly are Boeing proving you "can't really do that anymore"? By giving away market share, by going from being the uncontested leader to second place, with half of their remaining programmes winding down (one 767 being built every two months, no 747 orders for three years)."

Oh yeah, that 318 is a great aircraft. That can't even give it away. As for your beloved 380, the 787 has already outsold it in a third of the time.

And Cedarjet before you shoot your mouth off, you better keep a close eye on the order books this year.
Keepin' it real.
 
agill
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:15 am

"As for your beloved 380, the 787 has already outsold it in a third of the time"

Yes they are really comparable airplanes. Volvo V70 has outsold Boing 777...  Yeah sure
 
na
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:21 am

"As for your beloved 380, the 787 has already outsold it in a third of the time"

So what, the A380 has outsold the 773ER in shorter time...
 
tockeyhockey
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:05 am

Zvezda,

I agree completely with your view. airbus has a large gap between their mid and large sized planes. the a350 won't fill that gap, so what will? i think the 777 is now b's most important plane because of this gap, even more important than the 787.
 
PyroGX41487
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:14 am

the 787 has already outsold it [the A380] in a third of the time.

You say that as if your trying to start a flame war. The 787 and the A380 are in two _TOTALLY_ different markets. The 787 is a replacement for the 757 up through the 767. The A380 in direct competition with the 747. Compare how many airlines are looking for a 555 seat aircraft to those looking in the 200-300 seat market. Alot more common. That's a basic reason the the 787 is selling better. If you notice, there are fewer carriers ready to buy larger jets than smaller. If it was the other way around, I'm almost sure B6 would have chosen the B747 instead of the A320 to be in it's fleet.  Insane


As the the A340-500 -- I think there is only so much range that's needed for a commercial airliner. First of all, how many people would actually _FLY_ 18 hrs+ non stop? If they did up the A340-500, it would be so it could keep a similar range and carry a bigger payload. They could rate the engines higher or give it a little bit more fuel capacity. I love the A340-500 AND the 777NGs, don't get me wrong, but there is only so much airlines are going to invest in this niche market.
 
PyroGX41487
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:16 am

I agree completely with your view. airbus has a large gap between their mid and large sized planes. the a350 won't fill that gap, so what will? i think the 777 is now b's most important plane because of this gap, even more important than the 787.

I whole-heartedly agree with you here. The B777 was meant to fill the gap back in the early 90s when it was conceived and it's potential allowed it to expand into markets higher than the 4,500 nm market. As much as I love both companies as equally as I can, I do believe A needs a better gap-filling aircraft...

 
avek00
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:24 am

" First of all, how many people would actually _FLY_ 18 hrs+ non stop?"

Most anyone who currently flies over 18+ hours and has to endure connections and layovers which only add to the stresses of long-haul travel
Live life to the fullest.
 
tockeyhockey
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:24 am

boeing just needs to find a way to make the 777 lighter, cheaper, and more flexible. i'm sure they're hard at work on that right now.
 
Udo
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:29 am

Airbus just seems to want to be everything to everyone.

What’s wrong with adjusting aircraft to customers’ needs?  Confused


Boeing has proved you can't really do that anymore.

What exactly?


How many aircraft does this make for Airbus????

Who knows. At least it gives airlines a better choice.


Who was saying not but a year or two that airlines want simplicity? Forgot their own lesson or what?

Enhancing the A345 does not mean a loss of simplicity.


Airlines want simplification, not 10 different variants.

A340-500 and A340-500IGW makes two – that’s how I count. Don’t know how that is done elsewhere…  Wink/being sarcastic


However, with all these new toys Airbus has for their A345, by 2006 we'll be at Airbus A345LR ER PIP HGW...

Right now we have A340-500, then they might call it A340-500X – so where’s the problem? Sorry, you guys sound just childish…  Insane


Oh yeah, that 318 is a great aircraft

It does a good job for Air France, Frontier and Mexicana. What’s wrong with it?
.

That can't even give it away.

Can you please explain again WHAT cannot give WHAT away?


As for your beloved 380, the 787 has already outsold it in a third of the time.

Even the least aviation educated person should have realized by now that both types are for totally different markets and do not compete in one single category…  Nuts


I agree completely with your view. airbus has a large gap between their mid and large sized planes. the a350 won't fill that gap, so what will? i think the 777 is now b's most important plane because of this gap, even more important than the 787.

Oh, the B777 can fill that gap? Since when?



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
DAYflyer
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:32 am

The point of competition is to COMPETE and it will be interesting to see if Airbus does officially come out with this aircraft. They are simply trying to find out if they can meet a customer need while making a little money at the same time competing with 777/300-ER.

Hell, Boeing does it all the time. And yes, there is little cost (relatively speaking) to develop a variant than a new model, it makes perfect sense. I wish them luck with it, but no TOO much!!

So why all the squaking with Airbus v Boeing flames again?
One Nation Under God
 
milan320
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:32 am

Boeing7E7: Airbus just seems to want to be everything to everyone. Boeing has proved you can't really do that anymore. How many aircraft does this make for Airbus???? Who was saying not but a year or two that airlines want simplicity? Forgot their own lesson or what?

Oh and Boeing hasn't made changes at customers' requests? It's listening to your customer ... something that obviously as you state, Boeing doesn't do then.

Airlines want simplification, not 10 different variants.

I'd say Boeing is the king of variants, just look at the 737 variants. Boring.....  Yawn

/Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
flybyguy
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:57 am

Airbus seems to be spreading itself thin... They should just concentrate on building quality products for their customers rather than mimicking everything Boeing does. This holds the possibility that Boeing will definitely have a stranglehold on certain markets, but airbus will most definitely have their own "strangle hold" markets as well.

Building the A350 as well as the A380 simultaneously can impact the overall quality of existing offerings. An increased range a340-500 should have been offered a while ago. Had it had met and surpassed the expectations of rich airlines like SQ, they wouldn't have planned to replace their a340-500s with 777LRs at the onset.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
Udo
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:09 am

They should just concentrate on building quality products for their customers rather than mimicking everything Boeing does.

"Quality products"? Can't remember an Airbus falling apart due to poor quality. You should make clear what you mean with "quality".

Don't forget what Boeing has done over the years...B737NG as an answer to the A320, B764ER as a failed answer to the A332, now they are planning to match the A380 with what they call "B747 ADV". It goes both ways...


Had it had met and surpassed the expectations of rich airlines like SQ, they wouldn't have planned to replace their a340-500s with 777LRs at the onset.

First of all, SQ hasn't decided yet. Second, even a an earlier "better" A345 wouldn't rule out a possible B772LR choice at SQ - the simple reason is fleet commonality with existing B777 fleets.



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
PyroGX41487
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:11 am

Airbus seems to be spreading itself thin... They should just concentrate on building quality products for their customers rather than mimicking everything Boeing does. This holds the possibility that Boeing will definitely have a stranglehold on certain markets, but airbus will most definitely have their own "strangle hold" markets as well.

I agree and disagree with this statement. I disagree with copying off of Boeing pretty vehemently. Firstly the A340/A330 series is pretty original. The -200/-300 models of both aircraft use the same wing and several other features, somthing Boeing did not invent. Neither did Boeing come up with the cockpit commonality Airbus has. Their products are quality -- The A32x series (319 included) sell great with smaller airlines, their A330 is doing well, as is the A340-600 (this is my opinion, since it's a niche aircraft, I think it's doing well for in it's little market niche).

As for the A380, we're just going to have to see. Airbus might just take over the market, proving, as you said, it's "market strongholds". But then again, we have yet to see.
 
Boeing7E7
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:15 am

I'd say Boeing is the king of variants, just look at the 737 variants. Boring.....

And what is the 320 line? 330/340 Line?

"Quality products"? Can't remember an Airbus falling apart due to poor quality. You should make clear what you mean with "quality".

Aircraft quality is proven with time. Much more time than Airbus has even existed.

Oh and Boeing hasn't made changes at customers' requests? It's listening to your customer ... Something that obviously as you state, Boeing doesn't do then.

Boeing made a shift with customer request, not to offer everything from soup to nuts in aircraft capacity. Their recent line closures make it rather clear that the name of the game for them is simplification. And judging from what the airlines are doing, Boeing is clearly on the right track.

B737NG as an answer to the A320

Just what are those numbers????

A320 Family - 3389 Ordered/2361 Delivered since 1984 (Source: Airbus)
B737 Family - 4437 Ordered/3768 Delivered since 1984 (Source: Boeing)

Last time I checked, the non-NG versions were still taking orders along with the 320 family. Not to mention the fact the NG is still cranking out orders.

[Edited 2005-02-09 18:27:27]
 
sebring
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:57 am

Neat trick since the A320 only began shipping in 1988, or was it 1989.

You make an apples to oranges comparison.
 
ConcordeBoy
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:02 am

First of all, there's quite a few innaccuracies in that article: from orders to distances to specifications. Very unlike the SeattlePI!


Anyways, lest you types forget that the HGW A345 was announced more than a year ago... and will still fall short of the 772LR's current planned range (not to mention the likely range increase it's going to get in testing).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Boeing7E7
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:07 am

Neat trick since the A320 only began shipping in 1988, or was it 1989.

Launch date and a 737 is a 737. Furthermore, will the 320 be a 320 in 30 years???

But since you asked, I'll give 'em a head start, I mean they must have had orders before delivery right???

B737 Since March 1988: 3622 ordered/3262 delivered

The A320 program was launched in March 1982, first flight occurred on February 22 1987, while certification was awarded on February 26 1988. Launch customer Air France took delivery of its first A320 in March that year.


And it's not apples to oranges. It's the 737 Family orders and deliveries since the first A-320 Family delivery to A-320 Family orders and deliveries over its entire life.

[Edited 2005-02-09 19:19:07]
 
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keesje
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:54 am

In a few weeks (28 February) it will be five years since the Boeing board of directors authorized full production go-ahead for the 777-200LR.

The aircraft was proposed to airlines (as 777-200X) from 1997 if I remember well.

The current sales record must be dissapointing for Boeing. Also the A340-500 didn´t sell in large numbers.

IMO this shows airlines are not getting as hot just for the longest range as a.net members. They are probably more interested if an aircraft meets their specific network requirements.



Coming back to my original question any additional info on this variant, any news on ETOPS 330 certification by FAA/EASA?

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Udo
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:09 am

Aircraft quality is proven with time. Much more time than Airbus has even existed.

So quality starts when a company turns what – 40 years? 50 years? Your arguments are getting better and better…  Insane


Just what are those numbers????

A320 Family - 3389 Ordered/2361 Delivered since 1984 (Source: Airbus)
B737 Family - 4437 Ordered/3768 Delivered since 1984 (Source: Boeing)


Wow, you mix up everything. The B737-300/400/500 wasn’t able any longer at the beginning of the 90s to match the A320’s performance. Boeing was lazy and waited too long so that they even lost one of their most important customer – United. Only then Boeing decided to update the B737. The result is known.
And btw, sales of the B737 prior to the A320 introduction are irrelevant for the comparison.


Last time I checked, the non-NG versions were still taking orders along with the 320 family. Not to mention the fact the NG is still cranking out orders.

Last time I checked, the B737 classics production was stopped in 1999. Sure they still got some orders until then – but the classics weren’t competitive any more. Why do you think did Boeing develop the NG?


Launch date and a 737 is a 737. Furthermore, with the 320 be a 320 in 30 years???

Who knows? There’s a lot of potential left in the A320 airframe.



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
ConcordeBoy
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:20 am

The aircraft was proposed to airlines (as 777-200X) from 1997 if I remember well.

Not really.

While a 772 is a 772, that offering had much more in common with the current 772ER offering than does the current 772LR offering: different engines, gear, less fortified empennage, lower tankage, lower MOTW, lower range, etc.



Also the A340-500 didn´t sell in large numbers

26 aircraft in nearly 8 years is certainly not anything worth boasting about either, particularly when the overwhelming majority of those orders came when competition had yet to be launched.



They are probably more interested if an aircraft meets their specific network requirements.

Well, that statement can work both ways.

Keep in mind that SQ is thusfar the only airline to offer scheduled C-market routings. EK/AC have chosen to operate B-market routings while taking advantage of the extra payload offered by C-market aircraft.... which will more than likely prove the primary modus operandi for A345/772LR



Coming back to my original question any additional info on this variant, any news on ETOPS 330 certification by FAA

I cannot give a direct answer to that, but I do know that Boeing plans to test the 772LR to the 773ER's diversion standards in an attempt to duplicate/exceed the larger twin's results. That's no doubt a vital step for extended ETOPS approval that authorities are waiting to see.

Also, if I had speculate... I'd say we that we probably won't see ETOPS330 (if said approval is ever allowed) in wide operation.

More than likely, carriers will be granted a maximum typical operation certification of 180/240 minutes, with 330min allocated on a case-by-case/flight-by-flight basis; similar to ETOPS207 now.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
M27
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:40 am

"First of all, there's quite a few innaccuracies in that article: from orders to distances to specifications. Very unlike the SeattlePI!"

Yes, I noticed that the 300ER range is listed as 7940NM as opposed to the stated 7880NM. Usually PI is very good like Concorde Boy said, especially James Wallace. I read a couple months or so back that JAL was getting a little better fuel consumption than predicted, and I was wondering if maybe there has been another adjustment in range figures. Concorde Boy, or anyone else, have you heard anything about this?



 
ConcordeBoy
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:42 am

Yes, I noticed that the 300ER range is listed as 7940NM as opposed to the stated 7880NM

Actually, that's correct... Boeing's site just has yet to update it.



Concorde Boy, or anyone else, have you heard anything about this?

Yes. They and AF were getting between 1-3% better fuel burn that expected in differing aircraft... and that was after Boeing had originally updated its post-test burn/range results.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
anxebla
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:45 am

Which ones airlines have currently the ETOPS-207' approved??? I understand all ETOPS-207' (which I think is ETOPS-180' +15%) are used over the Pacific Ocean. Am I right? What about ETOPS-240'?

By the way... nice, the Airbus' video! When we can seeing another from Boeing?  Laugh out loud ...sure there is competition EVEN in the advertising!
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
gigneil
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:47 am

Ugh. This thread is stupid. I've seen monkeys with a better ability to stay on topic and act like adults.

1) This isn't a new plane, or a new variant. Its a new MTOW option, its "official" now, its been available for sale for over a year. This plane is happening. Its not going to be an A340-500X, or an A340-500LR, or anything.
2) It doesn't matter which plane is better. If both planes are good enough, both will sell.
3) Who cares about the 737 and the A320? What does it have to do with this thread?
4) Airbus is not spreading themselves thin. Its an MTOW hike. A simple change.

N
 
jacobin777
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:57 am

" now they are planning to match the A380 with what they call "B747 ADV". It goes both ways..."

Really? When? I can't recall Boeing saying they will be competing on a 555-800 seater aircraft...

The purpose of the 747ADV is to fill a possible niche between the 773's, and 346's of the world.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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keesje
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:57 am

I did a google & found this feb ´98 article, fragment : "A designated 777-200X would additionally have additional tanks in the aft fuselage, raising the total fuel capacity to 196600 litres and giving the -200X a range of 16158 kilometres." http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH9809/FR9809c.htm so Í seem to be to far of with the 1997.

a.net a/c stats gives 777-200LR a max range of 16,417km. So It appears in realty the A340-500 wasn´t too far ahead of the 777-200LR, it wasn´t so "fresh" in 2k.

On the range, for both types you start off loading cargo long before you get close to the ranges boosted by both A & B, as illustrated by this payload / range diagram. (>7000nm for the 772LR.)

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
anxebla
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:02 am

Sometimes I think the ADV abbreviation means "advertising" instead "advanced". Boeing seems be not very interested about the 747 future
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:03 am

Which ones airlines have currently the ETOPS-207' approved???

The 772ER is approved for ETOPS207... it depends on which airlines have been granted certification thereof.

I don't have a comprehensive list... though AA was the first airline to utilize ETOPS207 and UA/CO/DL/NH op with it. Not sure whom else.

CZ pioneered ETOPS180 over the Pacific, so they probably have it too, but I'm just guessing there.




I understand all ETOPS-207' (which I think is ETOPS-180' +15%) are used over the Pacific Ocean. Am I right?

For once.

Also, the USA airlines are only granted ETOPS207 certification onver the northen Pacific.



What about ETOPS-240'?

It does not currently exist for scheduled commercial ops.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:06 am

AA may have been the first to use it, but the PW4000 powered 777 was the first to receive 207 minute certification.

Doesn't matter much, but tis true.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:06 am

a.net a/c stats

...that, being your first mistake


gives 777-200LR a max range of 16,417km

...when it's actually 17,446km  Insane
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:08 am

AA may have been the first to use it, but the PW4000 powered 777 was the first to receive 207 minute certification.

How could it, when the Trent800 was the first to be tested?

The PW4000 was the first to get 180min certification, I'll give you that... but unless you can show me some source to the contrary, I'm going to have to disagree with your above emboldened statement.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:16 am

PHXInterrupted,

Oh yeah, that 318 is a great aircraft. That can't even give it away. As for your beloved 380, the 787 has already outsold it in a third of the time.

Apples, oranges. Remember that one? The market for a plane the size of the 787 is a lot larger than that for a plane the size of A380. And no, Airbus has never denied that. Which is why they have the A330, and are developing A350, so don't even start about that.

And Cedarjet before you shoot your mouth off, you better keep a close eye on the order books this year.

What you know something we don't?

Judging by the average level of the posts you guys make, I find it hard to believe you and Boeing7E7 are anywhere NEAR the age you claim to be in your profiles...

When, like in your case, you only post on here to make one-liner attacks on an aircraft manufacturer, you have some issues, IMO.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:18 am

Airbus just seems to want to be everything to everyone.

What’s wrong with adjusting aircraft to customers’ needs?


Nothing, as long as the needs of the customers(passengers) of the customers are met favorably.

The 787 and the A380 are in two _TOTALLY_ different markets.

Not really. With these 2 aircraft, Boeing and Airbus are going after the same market. They differ in the perception of the needs of these 2 markets. Airbus believes that there is going to be too many people wanting to go to the same place at the same time. They see an aviation gridlock from too many aircraft and they think that landing slots may become precious. That maybe true, but a sizeable group of todays aircraft are coming up for retirement in many parts of the globe. So there maybe a need for turnover to newer equipment depending on the health of some of the non state-owned carriers. Boeing's take on it is this. Some customers are tired of flying from places like CVG, having to fly south to ATL to pick up their flight to NRT. With the 787, they will be able to fly nonstop or direct to and from more places, in a shorter period. Boeing selling point on the 787 is, that this plane will be able to be used on short, high capacity, domestic legs, and then turn around and fly a long haul flight from a smaller international gateway at the same low cost. This airplane is designed to beat out Airbus in most of it's designs, but also be a solid replacement for most of Boeings previous aircraft, ie classic 737/757/767 aircraft. The plan is to build a new family based on the Dreamliner.

If you notice, there are fewer carriers ready to buy larger jets than smaller.
There are reletively few airports that are willing to have the A380 service. In my honest opinion, I don't think the A380 is going to sell very many more. If they do, their won't be many. The aircraft will do well in Asia and the frieght world, but other than that, I don't think there is much of a chance. I think EK will cancel most of it's orders. They'll take about, maybe 10 of the 45 they have on order. 2 or 3 of them will probably be operated for the Royal Family..

As the the A340-500 -- I think there is only so much range that's needed for a commercial airliner.

Range is what the airlines do want. Having to make stops to refuel and reload passengers is very costly. If an airline can do it nonstop, then they will most likely go for it. Until people start dropping like flies to DVT.

First of all, how many people would actually _FLY_ 18 hrs+ non stop? If they did up the A340-500, it would be so it could keep a similar range and carry a bigger payload.

An airline's wet dream.

They could rate the engines higher or give it a little bit more fuel capacity. I love the A340-500 AND the 777NGs, don't get me wrong, but there is only so much airlines are going to invest in this niche market.

The way that many carriers operate overseas these days, is the niche market you speak of.

Made from jets!
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:19 am

>""...the USA airlines are only granted ETOPS207 certification onver the northen Pacific""<

Then, the AF's 777-300ER's are certificed "only" with 180' ETOPS? (Maybe, just with the same minutes that its A-330's fleet?)
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:21 am

ConcordeQueer-

I had another source, but this PW press release also stakes the claim:

http://www.pratt-whitney.com/pr_061002.asp

I will try and dig up something better.

N
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:22 am


Then, the AF's 777-300ER's are certificed "only" with 180' ETOPS? (Maybe, just with the same minutes that its A-330's fleet?)


That's correct.

N
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

New Airbus A340-500 "LR" Being Offered To Airlines

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:25 am

Really? When? I can't recall Boeing saying they will be competing on a 555-800 seater aircraft...

The B747 ADV is likely to be stretched and therefore it will come close to the lower end of the A380 capacity. Boeing might aim at the "gap", but they also aim at keeping off several airlines from the A380 - Cathay, British Airways, the Japanese, to name a few.


Regards
Udo
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