saab2000
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What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:36 am

Hello all you ZW people! Any news from the home office? Rumors abound about CRJ-700s and EMB-190s, etc.

What's the story from ATW?

I remain optimistic!
smrtrthnu
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:41 am

I wish there was some news to report! We are all waiting for some news to come out about the RFP and other possible partners. It's an uneasy feeling but we have to keep going forward and do the best we can!!

I hope the CRJ-700 is nothing but a rumor.....I hate that plane!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:48 am



I have herd RUMORS that ZW wants to drop the 50 seat flying in favor of a mixed fleet of 170's and 190's (the latter replacing the 146's). The ZW 50 seaters would be replaced by a mix of new 50 seat flying (with the RFP) and 170's. I also herd if that happens they will be replacing the Mesa CRJ-700's as I have herd many rumors that UA is very unhappy with Mesa. My hopes for the future of UA express flying will have OO replacing Mesa's turbo prop flying and CRJ-200 flying. Hoping that OO replaces the EMB with the Dash 8 in DEN due to their favorable performance.

Rumors and Hopes

Who knows what will become of them!

-m

 Big thumbs up

 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:52 am

I think I've heard the same thing about the 50 seat flying. I don't think it's something that ZW want's to do much of anymore. Not that I can blame anyone, it's just so darn expensive to operate the 50 seaters. If UA is not happy with Mesa then they really need to show it and hold Mesa accountable for their actions. At least I can say that with ZW, if we are running late, it's probably not our fault...it's the lovely delay program that the Express carriers have to follow....when flights are on time, you often have to try to find Mesa crews.

Oh well...we will just all wait and see!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
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ERJ170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:58 am

If Mesa is cut from UAX, Air Wisconsin will virtually own UAX at RDU. Ihave to admit, it would be cool to see a mix of E170/E190/Bae146 at RDU.. Boy, to watch those Bae roll off the runway and get airborne, it makes you wonder how it happens every time because it just looks so damn HEAVY!
Aiming High and going far..
 
saab2000
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:28 am

If the EMB-190s show up I would be surprised if the -146s remain. It is all speculation at this point. But the 190 or 195 is in the same size class as the 146 so it would not really make too much sense to keep both around. We are down one in recent weeks and I expect that trend to continue.

Question: with all the bad talk about Mesa, what do they really do that is so bad? Serious question. I really don't know. I have heard them bad-mouthed since day 1, but I really don't have anything concrete to show what they are so bad about. I have heard some hair raising stories, but never seen anything other than rumor.

What's the deal with Mesa?

Having said that, I sure hope we win and there remain just 1 or 2 UAX carriers. I want AWAC to remain the Nr. 1 UAX carrier. I hope we get a bunch of 70 and 90 seaters and that a handful of 50 seaters remain. I would not be surprised if something like that would happen.
smrtrthnu
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:49 am

If the 190's do show up the 146 will be replaced because the 190 is supposed to be able to fly into ASE.

The bad thing with Mesa is that they just weren't very reliable in the past and the service is a bit on the poor side.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
SegmentKing
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:16 am

Has Mesa ever been reliable? Word on the street is that all EAS Arizona flying is going over to Great Lakes, whose completion rate is 98%, versus in the upper 70s for Air Midwest/Mesa. I know that Mesa told one of the airports "But our on time percentage is in the 90s!" ... that is for flights that actually go!

Airlines are now starting to be more picky over their commuter airlines operations.... seems funny we never have these issues at American Eagle!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:02 am

I heard a rumor that one of the "higher ups" in Flight Ops was handed a E-190 flight manual and told to get very familiar with it. Who knows where that one got started.
 
bigtidi
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:36 am

Comparing Mesa's Arizona ops to Mesa's Fee Per Departure is like apples an oranges. I know for a fact that UAL is pleased with the Mesa operation. The regional business is all about costs and I know that Mesa has one of the lowest cost structures out there. Mesa's reliability may slightly trail AWC but I don't think it is enough to justify the cost difference. Mesa is a great airline in need of a little good direction. Lets hope it comes! Believe me, Mesa's management has its eyes open to the opportunities of the future.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:45 am

I guess I'm confused as to how Mesa is a great little airline. I don't see that Mesa has done much for their employees. Having the lowest cost structure isn't always something to be proud of. I was just on a Mesa flight where the flight attendant had on a pair of dockers, faded mind you, a purple sweater, and chewing gum so loudly that it made the cows look. I know there are some good employees with Mesa, but most of the ones I've come across are less then professional.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:57 am

And if this thread is going to continue, lets keep it to AWAC...that's what we are all asking about.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
saab2000
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:19 am

I do not really believe that anyone got any manuals about the 190 other than that they are almost certainly looking at them as a replacement airplane for the 146.

I sort of hope we get a mix of EMB 170s and 190s. But I will mostly be happy if we just keep our flying!!!

Anyway, even if we get CRJ-700s it will be alright. That is a cool plane, even if the -200 and the -900 are not! Just my $.02
smrtrthnu
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:28 pm

I love the 146, but I love AWAC more! Whatever they do, I hope it works out for them...one must wonder what it would be like if UA still owned AWAC (I'm fairly certain they did at one point)...
 
allstarflyer
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:14 pm

After having worked last summer as a DM in ORD Ops for ZW, I found that they have some decent, hardworking people there. I hope they do well. And mentioning Mesa in the same breath as ZW is absurd. At ZW, we'd hear their pilots consistently own up to the poor operation of that airline. Saab2000, they were fired once by UA, and a guy in crew scheduling here would tell of his time in Mesa crew scheduling, of how unorganized and haphazard the place was. And during my 1st go-round with DH, I corresponded with that genius Ornstein just before his failed takeover of ACA and found firsthand why Mesa will not become a great airline with a child at the helm. ZW, with the possible exception of OO, is the best option for UA's ORD and East Coast UX operations.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
juventus
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:58 pm

My girlfriend works for Air Wisconsin as a ticket agent. She says a coule of her co-workers are a bit worry about the future.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:47 pm

I think we are all a bit worried. United was supposed to have an answer to us last month. Sometimes I think they are dragging their feet to see if DH or US is going to go belly up thus creating a huge surplus of RJ's....who knows...but it would be nice if they came back with an answer sometime this month, allowed us to buy larger aircraft, and let us bring back the service that was cut out!! ORD-ATW, ORD-GRB, ORD-MSN, ORD-CWA, ORD-SPI, ORD-BMI, ORD-TVC....UA wanted all beverage service cut from flights that were 250 miles and under....on a 30 minute flight you could do a beverage service! Hell, when I was a flight attendant for Midway and we sent the F100 to DCA, we were lucky if it was 20 minutes wheels up to wheels down, but we still did a service! Yeah it was fast but we did it. Oh well, I think we are looking at the future of the airlines, legacy carriers cutting back while low fare carriers continue to remind passengers that their product is better. At least we still have pillows!!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
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ERJ170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:59 pm

Hey ATW,

does Air Wisconsin decide the routes they fly or does UA?
Aiming High and going far..
 
UAXDXer
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:14 am

ERJ170 - UA decides the routes, they change em all the time.
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
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ERJ170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:41 am

But some regionals get to choose their own routes for some airlines, correct?
Aiming High and going far..
 
SLUAviator
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:52 am

Hey guys,

Does it surprise anyone that UA went and put our ground handling out for bid as well? When UA put our flying out for bid, I said it was a scare tactic. By putting our business out for bid, they know they can get the maximum amount of cost reductions from us. They are doing the same thing with our ramp. They know how piss poor things on the IAD ramp is (in Dec. I waited an HOUR for bags to be loaded--all 12 of them to go to CAE), I can't believe they would be so dumb as to pick another 3rd party contractor to run a bigger United Express operation.

I don't want to see Air Wisconsin invest a penny in the 170/190 family until Embrarer fixes the reliability problems, and finds a way to make the pits bigger. A lousy weather day that cancels all flights to MKE or MSN with 170s will find us going to UHaul for trucks. With those pits, we will never get caught up.

As far as the reliability goes, at least we won't be paying $50/hr+ like RP does for United mechanics to come out and restart their planes several times per day (occasionally, its multiple times on the same plane!). At least our own mechanics can do that.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
mojo89
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:56 am

Apparently the bid has gone back and forth several times and they are still talking. IMO this is a good thing. If there was a better deal out there I'm sure United would have taken it by now.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:03 pm

Who knows with UA...sometimes I wish that ZW was able to go back to being ZW and have code shares with many different airlines. All I know is if the RFP goes through, I'm seriously hoping that we announce orders for the 170/190!!!  Smile A boy can dream right?
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
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ERJ170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:58 am

Hey ATWZW170,

I found a piece of information that you may find nostalgic... and very informative...

http://nationwideintelligence.com/briefings/airline/AlnMidway.pdf
Aiming High and going far..
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:21 am

If ZW was to get rid of the Bae146 and get E190s instead, what would they fly to ASE? They have a bunch of flights to ASE daily, and the 146/ARJ are pretty much the only commercial jets out there approved.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:50 pm

KaiGywer,

The E190 is suppose to be able to also operate into ASE, although I thought UA would be smart to throw some Dash8-Q400's on there...save some money...they already operate the -Q200 there.

-m

 Big thumbs up



[Edited 2005-02-12 11:52:00]
 
SegmentKing
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:38 am

Mesa's Dash 8s are standard -200s, not the new Q200s (Q for Quiet!). Those 8's had also worn the previous United Express livery while operated by Mesa as Mountain West (back when UA kicked them out of Denver the *first* time)

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
ORDZW
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:43 am

As much as I, too would love to see an E170 or E190 with "operated by Air Wisconsin Airlines" on the side, it would make a lot of sense to stick with the Canadair line of regional jets. Some pilots that I have talked to say that it is very easy to get signed off on a -700 or -900 series of CRJ if they are already flying the -200. All they have to do is be trained on differences. This will save a huge amount of money in training costs, which is attractive to Air Wisconsin at this point.

Also, there must be someone here who thinks the CRJ-900 would look quite impressive in United Express livery! That plane is loooooong!


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KaiGywer
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:49 am

UnitedTristar, even though the Q400 would be great plane, I'm not so sure the snobby ASE residents would fly on "an old plane with propellers".
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:06 am

You are dreaming, ORDZW!! The CRJ-900 is a dog!  Smile Next time you are at the airport, call my cell, same number.

Maybe we will know something this week.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
UALGSO
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:53 am

Anyone at Air Whisky know who got the ground handling contract at the MYR station. I hope it was not DGS after dealing with the daily fiascos at Dulles. Anyway good luck to all the ZW' ers out there and I hope ZW stays aboard the UAX program, would be a real loss if UA awards to someone else. All I can say is it getting more confusing to keep up with all the express carriers, in May GSO will have one Skywest, one Air Whisky and one Chautauqua flight in addition to two mainline to ORD.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:35 am

It was DGS and yes it totally sucks!

I think it's all but been decided that ZW will stay an express carrier. In my gut I feel that we are just hashing out some small details. Before you know it ZW will order new planes and stay one of the big players with UAX.

Ground handling is also up for bid but not many of us are worried about that. UA would be crazy to do another transition at any of the ground station we currently operate.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:27 am

Heard a rumor that we might hear something on Friday about the RFP and that ORDZW might get his wish......GOD I HOPE NOT!!!!! I do hope we hear something however.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
ORDZW
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:20 pm

ATWZW170 -

It is not my wish to get the CRJ-900, I was preparing myself just in case. I'm trying to look on the bright side! In the grand scheme of things, we could bring back the Swearingen Metros and I would still be happy knowing that I have a job!


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I'm with you, though - I would still rather see the E170 or E190 flying for Air Wisconsin!

Let's hope we find out something today!
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ATWZW170
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:28 am

Nothing today...such a let down.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
SLUAviator
Posts: 292
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:17 am

One of our managers told us the other day that the word is we are about 95%+ sure that we are going to keep the flying and the ramp. He said it is pretty much a question of signing the contracts and making announcements at this point.

He also said that Bombadier was in ATW last week talking about swapping some of our 50 seaters for 70 and 90 seaters. I know Embrarer was up there maybe a month or two ago talking about the 170s and 190s as well. I'd like to see us get some of the CRJ 700s and 190s. Since the 190 should be able to do ASE, it gets my vote. However, I can also see them going the route of 2 different types of 90 seaters if you are trading 50 seaters and getting a great deal on the difference in price.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
tito
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:22 am

Where is there info about E190's capability to operate ASE?
 
ORDZW
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:58 am

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FriendlySkies
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:05 am

Glad to see ZW getting a new contract, but I wish it was with a more stable airline...
 
srbmod
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:13 am

Who did the ground handling @ ATL for ZW back when they were operating under the AirTran JetConnect banner? Were they ZW employees, FL employees or did they use a third party like DGS or AGI?
 
mojo89
Posts: 115
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:34 am

ZW employees did the ground handling for JetConnect in ATL.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:21 pm

I wish we had AWAC in COS, would trade them in a heart beat for SkyWest.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
gigneil
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:28 pm

If the 190's do show up the 146 will be replaced because the 190 is supposed to be able to fly into ASE.

You know I've heard that, but nowhere but here. Can anyone actually substantiate the claim?

I wish we had AWAC in COS, would trade them in a heart beat for SkyWest.

You guys did have them for a while. They used to op the Los Angeles service, do they not anymore?

N
 
ORDZW
Posts: 184
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting Gigneil (reply 42):
They used to op the Los Angeles service, do they not anymore?


No, not anymore. We used to operated COS-LAX. For a while, we had COS-DEN and COS-ORD as well. A combination of Skywest and Mesa now operate those routes (also United mainline DEN-COS.) I would not be surprised to see AWAC take some of these back, however. The latest surprise out of DEN was the MSP route. While it is only once a day, it was interesting to see the additions out of DEN in the last schedule change.

We'll see if there are any major changes if our bid goes through...
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Boeing7E7
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:23 pm

They just bought a chunk of USAirways:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050218/dcf043_1.html
 
ATWZW170
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:18 am

RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:16 am

Wouldn't it be interesting if in fact US were to close and Air Wisconsin took over the operation....could be kind of cool....when you think about it, the owners have done a good job with us and could do a good job with US...look at all the experience they have....Geoff was with Peoples Express, Texas International, Northwest....Pat was with Mississippi Valley, Northwest...lots of experience.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
tito
Posts: 122
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:23 am

If i'm reading all of this right, ZW has agreed to loan US $125 million. Doesn't it feel good to know where our pay cuts went.  Big grin
 
ATWZW170
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:18 am

RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:28 am

What feels good is that our owners have a plan....they were very creative with this....that's what feels good....plus we have jobs and the owners have protected those jobs....they did good. Lets not get negative...we have to pick up and go on.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
mojo89
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:11 am

RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:14 am

ZW employees did the ground handling for JetConnect in ATL.


I stand corrected. ZW did not do the ground handling in ATL for JetConnect. Thank you to two of my coworkers (one of whom trained the ground handlers in ATL) for pointing this out to me. Sorry for the misinformation.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
717-200
Posts: 564
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RE: What's Going On With Air Wisconsin?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 am

AirTran did the ground handling for JetConnect in ATL above and below the
wing. We also did the ground handling at the cities (GSO, ICT, SAV, TLH)
that were exclusively JetConnect flights for some time. I do not miss the
JetConnect days!
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