KDTWflyer
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Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:42 am

I've wondered why WN doesn't operate the B737-400.. did they at one time?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:43 am

Capacity.... they didn't wanna pay an additional FA.

Same reason they dont fly -800s/900s
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1MillionFlyer
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:45 am

They never operated that type. they did not need that many seats at the onset of the -400 program. Ironically the -700's seat almost as much as a 400
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Udo
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:46 am

That's easy. WN just does not want to introduce a B737 with more than one overwing emergency exit. In such a case, they couldn't use their standardized safety card any longer for all their aircraft.  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic


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Udo
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wnsocal
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:50 am

I think it was because the range on a 400 & 800 are weaker than a 300 or 700.wns
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HR001
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:04 am

"Ironically the -700's seat almost as much as a 400" The -400 seats up to 188 pax in single class layouts it is pretty much a 800 classic not close to the 700. WN did not want a extra FA for the 400 and is still the reason that no 800's in WN fleet.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:54 am

If WN ever experiences slot constraints at LAX or similar, I can see WN adding a small fleet of 738/739 to faciliate growth at slot-constrained fields.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:14 am

>WN just does not want to introduce a B737 with more than one overwing emergency exit. In such a case, they couldn't use their standardized safety card any longer for all their aircraft. <

Their safety card already covers the 2 different interiors of the aircraft. They could easily have 2 different exit types, especially after they do all the current planes in the -700 interior

>If WN ever experiences slot constraints at LAX or similar, I can see WN adding a small fleet of 738/739 to faciliate growth at slot-constrained fields.<

There are no slot constraints at LAX, or most other major US airports. It is currently only smaller metro airports or ones that are noise sensitive that have constraints, the biggest examples being SNA, LGB, DCA and LGA. LAX is actually 13 million passengers below its highest historical levels and if they show any sense, they will actually expand capacity even further.

>I think it was because the range on a 400 & 800 are weaker than a 300 or 700.wns<

Not at all. The -800 can do any mission WN needs it for, as can the -400 on almost all -300 routes.

>"Ironically the -700's seat almost as much as a 400"<

The -700 has the exact same capacity as the -300, 149 max/137 at WN

>The -400 seats up to 188 pax in single class layouts it is pretty much a 800 classic not close to the 700. WN did not want a extra FA for the 400 and is still the reason that no 800's in WN fleet.<

The original certification for the -400 was 168 and it is a bit smaller than the -800 (115'7" to 129'6"). Its exit configuration allows 189, but that is not really easy to do (has been done), and WN does not pack people like sardines. The extra FA is a concern, but WN does have the capability to both manage a subfleet and staff an extra FA
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Udo
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:17 am

Their safety card already covers the 2 different interiors of the aircraft. They could easily have 2 different exit types, especially after they do all the current planes in the -700 interior

That was a J-O-K-E. Big grin
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HR001
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:05 am

N1120A "but WN does have the capability to both manage a subfleet and staff an extra FA" of course they can do it but they operate a simply as possible and a sub fleet or the need for an extra FA complicates operations. Ie a 700 breaks down and the replacement AC is a 800 where is the extra FA needed?? It they didn't order the 400 and haven't ordered the 800 is because they don't need them !! Lets wait what the future says.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:09 am

a 700 breaks down and the replacement AC is a 800 where is the extra FA needed??

If the 738 is restricted to a certain "hub" or certain routes, the addl FA and the occa 73G/738 swap can be managed. It's not brain surgery.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:22 am

The question has been answered a couple of times already....

Too big, the need for a 4th FA...



[Edited 2005-02-09 23:26:34]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
252MKR
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:12 am

The way WN would configure a 73-4 / 8 would only give about 20-ish extra seats--and not worth an extra FA. Remember FA's are actually paid well at WN. In the US any FAR 121 plane with more than 19 seats requires an FA for every 50 seats. This pretty much drives staffing levels.

As an asside--WN had some 73-5's for a time. There was a joke about a captain sitting in a 73-5 before a flight and asking, "When are we going to see some of those 500's."
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:15 am

>>>As an asside--WN had some 73-5's for a time.

Still do, like 25 of them...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:15 am

>WN had some 73-5's for a time. There was a joke about a captain sitting in a 73-5 before a flight and asking, "When are we going to see some of those 500's."<

They still do have them and the pilots still fly them interchangably.
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RedDragon
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:41 am

Its exit configuration allows 189, but that is not really easy to do (has been done)

Bloody hell, what pitch would be necessary to get 32 rows into a 734...? What operator(s) have done this?

Does WN still have any aircraft with rear-facing exit row seats, or were they only used on the 732s as I suspect?

Rich
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:48 am

>Does WN still have any aircraft with rear-facing exit row seats, or were they only used on the 732s as I suspect?<

They were used on everything up to the 73G. When they got the 73G, they began changing the interiors on the -300s and -500s to the current config. It actually allowed more seats at a better pitch last I checked.
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MEA-707
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:13 am

the maximum seating capacity of a 737-400 is 170 seats and 189 seats in the significantly longer 737-800.
Although I don't hold my breath, I DO imagine it's possible Southwest will order the 737-900X or a comparible 737-follow up one day and put about 190 seats in it. The slightly higher purchase price of the longer 737, the 4th F/A with its planning complications and the slightly higher fuel bill will be more then paid for by the 50 extra tickets they can sell on the flights on which it will be used, especially when market are growing and bigger like 10 years from now.
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252MKR
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:17 am

OPNLguy and 1120A,

Thanks for the info; you two are exactly correct. For some reason I thought WN got rid of the 500's. Here are the fleet numbers from the media fact sheet: type / # in service and # of seats.

Southwest currently operates 415 Boeing 737 jets (as of October 1, 2004).

737-200
13
122

737-300
194
137

737-500
25
122

737-700*
183
137
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:23 am

252MKR, WN does not have the -200s anymore, they just made a big deal about the retirement of the plane that made them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
252MKR
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:54 pm

N1120A,

I am aware that WN does not have -200's any more--and saw the numerous posts surrounding this. If you notice the press release from SWA; you will see that it is dated October 1, 2004.

For the second aside of the day; WN did not use flight directors for takeoff on the -200's. They were also very Dallas centric--b/c of fuel costs.

I find you attention to detail about a Texas airline mildly amusing--what with you being from France. This is said in a friendly way.

Cheers, Brother
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
KaiGywer
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:59 am

Speaking of Southwest, I was watching Airline yesterday and I told my wife how it's so cool that Herb takes the time to go to a pilot's retirement flight. She just said, "isn't Southwest just a little airline so they have time for stuff like that?" Kinda funny, considering they've got more than a couple of planes here and there
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No B737-400s For WN?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:11 pm

>For the second aside of the day; WN did not use flight directors for takeoff on the -200's. They were also very Dallas centric--b/c of fuel costs.<

Fuel costs and the fact that there were enough differences that WN saw the need to keep certain pilots trained up specifically on the -200 and kept them localized at the DAL base.

>I find you attention to detail about a Texas airline mildly amusing--what with you being from France. This is said in a friendly way.<

I am actually a born and bred Californian. I am half French and changed the flag on the first Wednesday in November last year. Also, while WN may be from TX originally, we Californians like to see them as our own.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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