flydc10
Posts: 80
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Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:05 am

Helo

I have been wondering if Delta operates both the 763 in the ER and non ER version or just the 763ER, and also why do they olny have 8 777, what routs do they use them for.


Regards

Flydc10
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N1120A
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:11 am

>I have been wondering if Delta operates both the 763 in the ER and non ER version or just the 763ER, and also why do they olny have 8 777, what routs do they use them for.<

DL has both versions of the 763 and the reason for only 8 777s is partly because they ran out of money before they could replace all of the MD-11s with 777s, and because a great deal of their network that needs capacity can be handled with their 764s which are configured for more capacity than the 777s. The 777s are needed on range routes like ATL-NRT and high cargo demand/prestige routes like LGW and CDG
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:13 am

Delta ops the 767-200A, the 767-300A, the 767-300ER, and the 767-400ER.



Their 772ER's are generally based in ATL (though do CVG-CDG off and on by season)... and fly from there to the large Euro superhubs (LGW, CDG, etc) as well as NRT.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:15 am

and the reason for only 8 777s is partly because they ran out of money before they could replace all of the MD-11s with 777s

More along the lines of DALPA successfully lobbying to have the birds restricted to 7hr55min (or less) flights for the majority of their early service life.
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Thucydides
Posts: 94
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:23 am

They operate 762, 763, 763ER, 764ER

As for 777 routes, the ones that come to mind are:

ATL-NRT
ATL-LGW
ATL-CDG
ATL-FRA

Last year (Feb 04) they announced that they were going to sell two 777's scheduled for delivery this year and that they were in discussions with Boeing about either selling three 777's scheduled for delivery in 2006 or purchasing other Boeing aircraft in their place.
 
anxebla
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:25 am

>""More along the lines of DALPA""<

What means "DALPA"? Many thanks in advance.
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N1120A
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:28 am

>What means "DALPA"? Many thanks in advance.<

Delta Air Line Pilots Association.
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bucky707
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:16 pm

"More along the lines of DALPA successfully lobbying to have the birds restricted to 7hr55min (or less) flights for the majority of their early service life."


totally untrue.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:24 pm

DALPA also screwed up the 764ER launch by arguing over the pay rates for the aircraft.

As a DL extremely loyal and frequent flyer, I am glad DALPA took one in the shorts recently.
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bucky707
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:30 am

"DALPA also screwed up the 764ER launch by arguing over the pay rates for the aircraft."


also untrue. Under the contract at the time, the pay for any new aircraft that was introduced had to be negotiated. If no pay rate was agreed to within six months of introduction, the union could refuse to fly the aircraft. In the case of the 767-400, the aircraft was introduced and pay rates negotiated before it ever became an issue. The schedule for operating the 764 was never changed or screwed up at all by DALPA.
 
alb222
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:41 am

What, however was screwed up was the issue of crew rest seats............caused DL to suspend ATL-HNL service while this was worked out.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:41 am

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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BestWestern
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:57 am

DL 777's are on and off from LGW for between now and summer. March is currently showing x3 763's. April has 1x777 and 2x 763

In July a 4th rotation comes into play 3x763 and 1x777 - this normally gets scaled back to 4x763.

MXP gets a 777 for the summer, when FCO goes x2 daily.
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OttoPylit
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:41 am

I was under the assumption that when Delta began to recieve the 777, DALPA and Delta mgmt couldn't agree on a payscale for the aircraft and the pilots refused to fly them. So Delta mgmt basically said, "Ok, if you don't want to fly them, we won't order any more. Your loss," and after accepting the first ones, cancelled any remaining orders. Only after that did they come to some sort of agreement, but Delta has stuck to its promise of not ordering any more.

With more 764's on order(albeit delayed), I would assume the problem wasn't as bad for the 764.
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aaflt1871
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:57 am

What I find amazing with their small amount of 777's is they do charter that bird out. WWE took a chartered DL 777 from SFO to HNL to NRT for a 6 day trip last week. I would have thought they would use a 767 seeing they have more around to spare. But I guess money is money.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:05 am

>With more 764's on order(albeit delayed), I would assume the problem wasn't as bad for the 764.<
Don't you mean 772s? AFAIK DL (nor anyone else besides the USAF for that matter) doesn't have any 764s on order, only some 20 options.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:12 am

Don't you mean 772s? AFAIK DL (nor anyone else besides the USAF for that matter) doesn't have any 764s on order, only some 20 options.

Ooops, my bad. They remaing planes are only options, not confirmed orders. As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period, unless the 787 has proven itself and shows more promise by then.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:16 am

>Ooops, my bad. They remaing planes are only options, not confirmed orders. As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period, unless the 787 has proven itself and shows more promise by then.<
I sure hope so, though I would already be very happy if they take up all the 777s they still have on order.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:17 am

As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period,

Providing they get their house in order and start making profits once again. If they do not do that, then DL's 762's will overtake the when will NW replace their DC-9's thread with when wil DL replace their 762 thread as the most annoying on the board. What did they lose last year? Was it 5.2 Billion?
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tinpusher007
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:21 am

You can say whatever you want about DALPA, but IMHO they have always demonstrated a very strong, unified solidarity in dealing with DL management. They make it very clear that they will not be pushed around, threatened or intimidated by management. They are IMHO opinion one of the most intelligent pilot groups out there.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:34 am

You can say whatever you want about DALPA, but IMHO they have always demonstrated a very strong, unified solidarity in dealing with DL management. They make it very clear that they will not be pushed around, threatened or intimidated by management. They are IMHO opinion one of the most intelligent pilot groups out there.


Well, you are correct in that they have always showed solidarity when dealing with management and wont be pushed around or itimidated by mangagement. But then again, they also have to show solidarity when they get the DL management boot kick comes.


I don't know so much about them being intelligent, as any airline union, in my opinion, is not intelligent. Either way, I am biased.

For instance, Delta did say they needed to lower costs and a 32.5% pay cut was the minimum that would happen. ALPA offered 9%. Delta said, "No dice, 32.5 minimum." ALPA offered 13%. Delta said, "No, 32.5." So ALPA offered $700 of the $1 million requested(which I thought was a huge step and big move by ALPA). Then management said, "You have just wasted your time, we have now upped it to 40% cut needed." Then ALPA finally got their butts in gear with negotiating.

In the end, what happened. ALPA ended up giving a 32.5% paycut. So all they did over the better part of a year was waste more time and money. I wouldn't exactly call that smart.


AA1871,

LMAO! It will be interesting when the DL762 thread overtakes the NW DC-9 thread. That gets my vote as the most beaten dead horse on this site.
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tinpusher007
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:47 am

OttoPylit...your point is well taken, but management does the same thing with contract negotiations all the time. When a contract becomes ammendable, they always drag their feet, but as we saw with the last contract that DALPA won, management eventually gave in after wasting years worth of time.

Also..as for DALPA offering numbers short of what management requested, the negotiations weren't strictly dollars and cents. Work rules and reitirement, etc play a HUGE part in contract negotiations. Managments refusal to give the pilots what they wanted in these areas is what probably what made DALPA only offer x-amount of dollars when the knew it was short of the 32.5% that was needed.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:30 am

AAFLT1871:

I agree with you on your statement of the DL 777 charter-ability. Last summer for the Olympic transports for NBC, I think DL allocated 4 777 to JFK-ATH and ATH-JFK (depending on timing). There was one technical issue with one of the 777 during this, and an existing CDG-ATL flight was cancelled and that 777 ferryed CDG-ATH to execute the return of the Olympic staff.

Most of the 777 routes can be 'subbed' with a 763-ER except of course the ATL-NRT run.

I don't believe DL's cargo ops are using different LD containers in the cargo compartment that individual containers require the 777, but the number and weight may require the 777 of course. I think DL uses only the LD2, LD8, and full pallet container/cargo type. Specifcally, they don't use the LD3 (thus why NW went w/ the A330).
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bucky707
Posts: 954
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RE: Delta 767 , 777

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:32 pm

"What, however was screwed up was the issue of crew rest seats............caused DL to suspend ATL-HNL service while this was worked out."


this is true, and personally, I was totally against the union on this one.

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