rsmith6621a
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3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:15 pm



"SPOKANE - Representatives from three Washington cities with ties to The Boeing Co. will meet next week with Airbus SAS in hopes of landing a possible aircraft assembly plant".

http://komotv.com/stories/35202.htm

How Ironic......Airbus right in Boeings Backyard.

Ill bet if Boeing would have had a little consideration for Spokane on some of the sub assembly for the 787 those selected Reps would not be courting Airbus.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
atmx2000
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:26 pm

Actually, this would neutralize any claim that Boeing is receiving subsidies, because now Washington state is effectively offering the same reduced B&O tax rate to Airbus.

ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
N79969
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:48 pm

You beat me to it Atmx2000. Airbus will be getting the same deal Boeing is getting on the 787. However applying NASA-developed technology in their airplanes did not stop Airbus from complaining that NASA was an unfair advantage for for Boeing.

Airbus is playing the political cards well. Yesterday they hire Glenn Fukushima as head of Airbus Japan KK and now they are about invest in Patty Murray's home turf.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:16 am

You Guys are just so quick. I immediately thought the same thing.

Airbus putting a plant anywhere in the US will automatically set itself up for this catch 22. US towns, cities and states all compete with one another using the tax breaks they plan to give a company in question.

For Airbus to make it's argument stick it either has to refuse any tax advantages, or not build in the US.

I have no problem with Airbus locating a plant in the US. I think its great. But I also think it's great that Airbus has to drop its stupid argument that taxbreaks for relocation are tantamount to subsidies. It was ridculous when they first said it, now that they will be the beneficiaries of those same breaks its even more so.

Additionally, if Airbus is going to build tankers for the US military that too was a subsidy that Airbus claimed Boeing got from the Federal government. So For Airbus to compete for this tanker contract they have to disavow thier previous position.

[Edited 2005-02-10 17:19:38]
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
123
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:49 am

Think. If Airbus beats Boeing in sales, then what better than to build aircraft of surplus sales there, where thousands of (maybe unemployed) aircraft construction workers are based, with huge knowledge and will to work? Airbus could employ them?

Naturally Airbus = Europe and logic would say, "build in Europe", however we all know, that Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, etc., are all nothing but huge assembly lines: Engines from GE; Instruments from Honeywell; tires from Good Year, Brakes from Liebherr, etc.: So you choose: Unemployment in Washington state and lack of labor force in Toulouse? Act fast... accept Airbus to employ you!

Even more.... let Airbus and Boeing cooperate. Friends, rather than foes, are needed to secure thousands of jobs.

 
kl911
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:55 am

It just shows how strong Airbus is at the moment compared to Boing.

Can you imagine a Boeing plant in Europe? Finally after 50 years of American domination we ' dominate' the American market. Not that I care a lot anyway, but it's interesting to see the change .

KL911
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:03 am

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Boeing will be all over EADS if this happens, and EADS can kiss those subsidies good-bye.  Big grin
 
Leskova
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:08 am

Why is everyone around here acting as if Airbus thinking about a plant in the US were anything new?  Confused After all - the only new thing here is that 3 cities in Washington are bidding for the plant.

By the way...

Yes, if Airbus gets the same tax breaks as Boeing, then Airbus will indeed not be able to call them an advantage for Boeing any more - but they can still call them a subsidy, because, after all, that's what these tax breaks are.

As for Boeing being "all over EADS" if this happens - care to enlighten us what on earth you're talking about?

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
MD80Nut
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:11 am

Given that Boeing may announce closure of the 767 line by the middle of this year before the USAF makes a decision on the KC767 (as mentioned in another current thread), all of a sudden the idea of a "KC330" looks a little more realistic. An assembly plant in the US makes a lot of sense, it would create jobs here and generate some positive PR. Give Airbus credit, they are going about it the right way!

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
JDD1
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:13 am

FriendlySkies
Boeing will be all over EADS if this happens

What does this mean?

If there is as much work and more american content on a KC330 than the 787 what can Boeing say? Perhaps Washington State has been screwed for too long!!!!!!!!!!
 
daedaeg
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:17 am

If Everett were to be selected, then Airbus would have to build their plant right across from Boeing's. Boeing and Airbus would essentially need to share the same runways at Paine Field. Having a competitor in your "own backyard" would definitely make things quite interesting. Then Boeing responds by building a plant in Toulouse or Hamburg. Oh what fun this could be.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:22 am

If Airbus gets any tax breaks, Boeing will call them on it and EADS will lose their stand over the subsidy issue.

This is the exact reason I don't like Airbus. It's not the planes, it's not the subsidies, it's not the cheap prices - it's the hypocracy. Airbus calls Boeing on every last tax break, Japanese subsidy, etc., while they take advantage of the same subsides and tax breaks. As if that's not enough, they complain when they don't get a sale in a certain market, because they're Airbus, and they just have to take over every last market on earth. A company like that will not get any respect from me. Am I saying Boeing is perfect? No. But I don't see them asking Uncle Sam for $4 bil in subsidies for the 787 while they are fighting Airbus over the same issue.
 
Leskova
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:31 am

FriendlySkies, the only - and fully justified - response that Boeing will get is: build a plant in the EU, deal with the same EU politicians that Airbus goes through, and get a deal to that's similar to whatever Airbus will (or will not) be receiving at that time.

The only difference is: Airbus is seriously considering a plant in the US - I haven't heard a single word about Boeing considering a plant in Europe...

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: Just to clarify that - no, I'm not saying that Boeing would certainly get the same deal as Airbus in Europe... what I'm saying is this: they're not even trying - they're just pointing fingers, nothing else.

[Edited 2005-02-10 20:33:46]
Smile - it confuses people!
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:35 am

The ONLY reason Airbus is building a plant here is to try to win the tanker deal. Airlines could give a damn where the plane was built, as long as it's a good price and structurally sound (see UA, NW, US, B6, HP, F9 in the USA and BA, LH, AF, KL in Europe). Boeing has no reason to build a plant in the EU, it would be a waste of money and time.
 
Planesmart
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:40 am

An entirely logical move.

A need:
'Made in USA' for some sales
Natural exchange rate hedging
More skilled staff
Aviation sympathetic residents

I'm sure there are plenty of ex-B, L and McD staff who would welcome a chance to work in the industry again, or for those still in it, more competiton for their expertise.
 
Maersk737
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:41 am

Please FriendlySkies, It's you and your friends in the sky? Who is talking about subsidies again and again, Not Airbus......

It would be nice if an Airbus plant is located in the U.S.... Maybe they will help Boeing produce my all time favorite, the 737 NG  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:42 am

The ONLY reason Airbus is building a plant here is to try to win the tanker deal.

True and not true... It's also the so-called foot between the door...

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
JDD1
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:49 am

FriendlySkies

Boeing have exactly the same rights as Airbus has to get repayble loans from the Govt. Why don't they ask for them and why doesnt govt give them? After all the 1992 WTO Agreement is bilateral.
I have difficulty believing that Margaret Thatcher beat Ronald Reagan into submission with her handbag, in 1992.

Well.....maybe she did and that is why it is all so unfair!
 
col
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:58 am

MD80Nut,

Well put.

I would welcome Airbus CONTINUED investment into the USA. Also, for all those Boeing assembly workers in Washington State that have been laid off, this would be a super bonus. If indeed the 767 line does close, then Boeing and Airbus should actually get together on this, as it is a win win for both. Infact a combination of reworked 762's/763's and new build 330 Tankers in the same building could be very interesting to supply the global market for tankers.

Tax Breaks, grants, other funding, don't really care as this will be returned with profit later = good investment. Just like the 787 assembly competition.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:08 am

It is an interesting debate. Would an Airbus plane made in America be considered an American plane? I kind of doubt that as people tend to pay attention to where a company from, rather then where the goods are built.

Case Study:

Most Toyota cars (I believe all but two right now) that are sold in the US are manufactured in Indiana, Alabama, Texas, West Virginia, Baja California (I know its Mexico, but still not Japan) or Kentucky. They employee Americans to build the cars, and all the manufacturing design work is done in the United States. Essentially the only things that are from Japan are the vehicle specifications, and the only thing that goes off to Japan are the profits. But then if you look at where the profits go, regular investors earn much of the money, and anyone can buy Toyota stock on the Tokyo exchange with today's technology.

However most people, in the midwest especially, would go to a GM or Ford dealer way before going Toyota because they want to support America. I know its a great cause, but it isn't logical. But I will say that this is not true for everyone, and especially parts of the country like the west where foreign cars outsell American cars by big percentages.

Overall Toyota is not an American company, so it doesn't benefit that much from American sentiment. They build cars here for tax reasons because the import taxes on cars are so high because the US government tries to subsidize American companies. An Airbus plane manufacturing plant would be in the US for the same reason. It provides the only opportunity for Airbus products to be sold to the US government. Although the bias is still for Boeing, I think it will give Airbus a better chance, so the government can analyze which plane suits their needs best (and before you blast saying that it is the A330, you need to look at exactly the performance specifications that the government wants). I think the two situations are similar. The government will be the consumer and will have to make the same judgement that we all as consumers make-which product is better, and are there truly any differences that make me want to support a specific company?

This is a great analytical situation that I am sure I will dive into in some economics courses.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
mham001
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:18 am

One problem Airbus is going to have with acceptance in the US is the EU(France) continually stating that they want to bury us economically. At least Japan had the good manners to keep any such aspirations to themselves.

As an aside, while the EU is maniaclly focused about our markets, China will be overtaking them in the next century.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:36 am

Mham001, I really do not understand what you are saying. Can you please elaborate on what you are trying to say.

The EU right now does not want to bury the United States. Yes the Euro has appreciated drastically since the dollar in the last 2 years, but this isn't because Europe wants to wipe out the US. The EMU is actually facing recessionary pressures because of their overvalued currency (the Yen is also overvalued too) and want the US to stop devalueing the dollar. The US government kept devalueing the dollar to boost growth and exports. This has worked as the US saw a 4.6% GDP growth rate while Germany only had a 1.7% inflation rate while facing unemployment of 10.5%. The European Monetary Union is a conservative (please not economically conservative which implies nothing about poltics) currency union that puts price stability and lack of inflation at the number one goal. The European Central Bank puts very little if any weight on unemployment and growth rates which is a very opposite strategy compared to that of the FED.

Neither economy wants to bury the other. Both need to harmonize exchange rates, or else they will just alternate between recessions and expansions. The EU isn't necessarily focused on US markets. Something like 60% of goods that cross a border in Europe stay within the EU.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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ramprat74
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:57 am

What about Wichita? That Boeing plant has been up for sale for a year or two. There are plenty of qualified aerospace workers in that city. The taxes would probably be cheaper then Washington's. I don't see Boeing selling to EAD's though.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:04 am

Theres a lot a wild ideas here. Now, try this one.
Boeing sells the commercial airplane division to Airbus.
Boeing retains the military and aerospace divisions.

Remember the magic words....."wild idea" because that's all this is.

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
eilennaei
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:04 am

"One problem Airbus is going to have with acceptance in the US is the EU(France) continually stating that they want to bury us economically. At least Japan had the good manners to keep any such aspirations to themselves."


I'm mean, I know it, but I think this is the part where the U.S. needs no particular assistance. After all, the whole economy is increasingly running on money from abroad. The vicious cycle will only end in the eventual humbling of the U.S. "he who pays, calls the tune", or a world-wide monetary crisis as the USD loses its preferred status as the convertible trading currency. Take your pick.
And while I'm in the mood: for the record, the 1st man on the planet Mars will be a person from China. (Actually I'd prefer nobody there, but power politics rules otherwise.)

regards,





 
daedaeg
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:10 am

What about Wichita? That Boeing plant has been up for sale for a year or two. There are plenty of qualified aerospace workers in that city. The taxes would probably be cheaper then Washington's. I don't see Boeing selling to EAD's though.

Actually the Boeing Wichita plant is not up for sale. We don't know at this point if Boeing will be selling it or not. There is to be a decision finalized within the next month or so. There would definitely be conflict of interest issues if Airbus were to start making airframes for Boeing. I don't think the EU or the US government would allow them to go ahead with such a plan, even if both companies thought it to be a good idea. It is my understanding that Airbus already has a design center in Wichita.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
whitehatter
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:17 am

One problem Airbus is going to have with acceptance in the US is the EU(France) continually stating that they want to bury us economically. At least Japan had the good manners to keep any such aspirations to themselves.

Can I have a side order of whatever this nut has been smoking?

This American self-loathing has to stop. "Everybody hates us...it's so unfair".

And can we have some sensible examination of this please? Airbus and EADS defence businesses are not the same, and the Subsidy Song has been at Number One in the US Top 100 for far too long now. How many times and in how much detail do you people want your asses handed to you?

The plant, if it happens, will be for the tanker program which Boeing managed to lose for itself with the help of a few corrupt people at the Pentagon. An Airbus bid will have to be complete and not one of these "hey let's build a plane!" musical scripts some people here think the aviation world runs to.

It is a requirement that the bid needs to be properly costed, and this includes a full and detailed plan for where the aircraft will be built and tested. Washington State is an ideal geographical location for many reasons, and that's why Boeing has done well locating its factories there.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
MD80Nut
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:38 am

Col,
Good idea about Boeing and Airbus cooperating on a tanker project, even though I don't see it happening given the current atmosphere between them. Airbus already uses a lot of US made components, and it would be nice to see laid off US aviation workers getting work. Another poster suggested Wichita as a potential location for an Airbus plant, which I think would be a great location for them. Wichita is very aviation oriented, and with the closing of the Boeing plant there are probably plenty of people who'd just love to work for Airbus.

Maybe Airbus is only interested in getting the tanker deal. So? If they come in and build a plant in the US and hire US workers, it's a good thing!

If the closing of the 767 line is announced this year and the 787 isn't suitable for tanker use as Boeing seems to suggest, then the USAF's choices have been narrowed considerably. Either go with the A330 or buy used 767s as they are replaced by 787s and convert them to tankers.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
LV
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:41 am

Maybe this will teach Boeing to move its HQ from Seattle to Chicago....lol  Smile
 
GdJet16
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:42 am

PlaneSmart....
Most of that "L, B, McD" staff has long since retired, died, or found other jobs. I highly doubt that an engineer laid off after Lockheed abandoned the L-1011 in 1983 is still looking for a job in the aerospace industry. As an engineer, I would love to see this provide job opportunities, but I have doubts that it will result in much hiring for white collor workers in the US.
 
Ken777
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:07 am

I think Airbus is going around the country getting local politicians excited about the prospects of a plant. They were in Oklahoma a short time ago and our local pols did get a bit excited.

Two benefits to this bit of traveling. The first is that they can start seeing locations compete for the plant (if one is built). Airbus is very aware of the incentives used to locate plants and they would be very good at leveraging these incentives as, unlike loan subsidies, they don't have to be paid back.

The other benefit is that local excitement gets pushed up to politicians (House & Senate) in Washington DC - making it more attractive for them to consider Airbus for the tanker program, even if it is from a "foreign" supplier.

Airbus knows the game and is playing it very well.
 
stirling
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:25 am

The plant, if it happens, will be for the tanker program which Boeing managed to lose for itself with the help of a few corrupt people at the Pentagon. An Airbus bid will have to be complete and not one of these "hey let's build a plane!" musical scripts some people here think the aviation world runs to.

Three cheers for the Whitehatter. I couldn't have said it better myself. There is nothing at all extraordinary about this development for those who follow the economy of a rapidly changing world. An Airbus plant in the US is nothing more than an extension of what companies all over the world are already doing with success. (Imagine my surprise to find the new Volvo I covet, a Swedish Car, part of the American conglomerate Ford, produced in the Czech Republic, with over 40% of its parts coming from South Africa! The world is smaller than we think!)

As for Boeing, didn't they at one time have a plant in Belfast? I seem to remember something to that effect back when they owned DeHavilland Canada?

It's all about the world slowly evolving into a global economy, not about Europe trying to "Stick One" to the Americans.

How American is Boeing anyway? For example:
Boeing buys EVAC slides from a NJ subsidiary of Groupe Zodiac, a French company, ailerons for the FA-18 retrofit project in AZ are made by the Swiss firm RUAG.
Look some more, and find a long list of even MORE examples! Nothing is purely American made, or German, or Japanese for that matter anymore. Boeing is not what one would consider an OEM manufacturer, but rather an assembler of parts coming together from an array of international sources. Did we forget about Alenia Aeronautica of Italy being a supplier for the 787?

In fact I can think of just ONE THING that is produced solely with materials culled from within the boundaries of North America, and "IT" will be promptly deposited in my toilet in about 30 seconds time!
Delete this User
 
bjg231
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:28 am

Well whether Washington offers subsidies or not, I know for a fact that Lake Charles, Louisiana is making a bid for the same plant and the state is offering some sort of tax break deal. It was all over the news last month.

If the KC 330 does get built for the US (which I highly doubt), Lake Charles may be a leading contender for the plant as we already have a large EADS presence at the local airfield - Chennault.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
POR2GAL
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:03 am

This news is really interesting.

I'm not so sure Airbus is really interested in this move, however I'm all for it.

Maybe it'll diminish the whole A vs. B thing, and join the aviation industry together!!  Wink/being sarcastic

BTW, this was my first post of many to come. I have been monitoring for a long time. This forum is full of very good info, I've learned so much from all of you!

Lates!
Spotters, Inc.
 
schipholjfk
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:40 am

> KL911: It just shows how strong Airbus is at the moment compared to Boing.

Oh my God... this is the overstatement of the year. Boeing is a more than "commercial airplanes" with years of history behind it. Let's not start another A vs. B war, but when I see statement like this from either side (A or B) it just want to make me puke.

No company is purely American, European or Asian anymore. Major companies are companies without borders and as many people have stated earlier, work is spread around the world. So it is not unusual that Airbus may be looking to build a plant in Boeing's backyard. You go where the talent is in today's global economy. And when it comes to building amazing planes, the talent is in Washington state. So what is so strange about it? If you read some of these postings at A.net, one would think WW III is about to break out betweem the US and the EU. Ridiculous. We are much more inter-dependent on each other than ever before and Airbus building a plant in the US is simply a sign of the times!
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
col
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:40 am

This post also excites me. I was getting sick of the A v B, mines better than yours arguments. The reality of the situation, and the potential seem to have been picked up by quite a few.

Hope Airbus put the plant here in Agawam,MA (first zip code in USA). Also we are the World (sorry North American, there is land off our shores) Champions of Baseball and American Football. No better reason, Go Red Sox and Patriots!!
 
N79969
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:58 am

The point is that the EU and Airbus were engaged in massive obfuscation of the issue by lumping the routine, run-of-the mill tax breaks offered by the state of Washington with the outright cash assistance offered to Airbus in Europe.

Boeing, to my knowledge, has not complained about any tax breaks that Airbus received. The real test is not whether Boeing would get a tax break in Europe. Tax breaks are not unique in any regard anywhere on the planet and to call them subsidies was a smoke and mirrors play by the EU.

The real test is whether Boeing could ask for and receive billions of "repayable loans" to compete with Airbus in its backyard by building some plants there.
 
flymia
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:01 am

I know Airbus has some HQ in MIA or major traning base. To bad there is no room for it in the MIA area.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Lufthansa
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:04 am

YOU GUYS DON"T GET IT

The reason why Airbus would be interested in Washington state, is because it is already an area with a high level of aerospace skills, and not just at boeing but at a lot of support companies.

Think of the Sillicon valley. It is the ideal place in the USA for me to set up a high tech computer company, because if i need to find, say some expert on component XYZ, I can probably walk into the local bar and find ten of them.... but if i went to a completely new city, there's probably none and i'd have to go to great lengths to bring them in myself.

Now before some of you read too much into that, it doesn't mean stealing Boeing's staff... but more importantly, drawing from the pool of all the smaller support companies and independent consultants etc.... Sure...some of Boeing's staff may wish to apply for jobs at airbus... but by that same count, You'll probably find Airbus may loose some of its staff (say they came out from Hamburg) to Boeing too.

IT IS FOR THIS REASON AIRBUS AS A DESIGN CENTRE IN WITCHITA.....
 
atmx2000
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:10 am

Boeing have exactly the same rights as Airbus has to get repayble loans from the Govt. Why don't they ask for them and why doesnt govt give them? After all the 1992 WTO Agreement is bilateral.

There is a great deal of aversion to giving large loans to a company for a purely commercial product. Part of this is a result of the fact that the US traditionally had more than one viable competitor in each field. Giving loans to one company to pay for a consider chunk of product development would lead to the other company asking for loans. Until 1997 the US had more than one large civil aircraft manufacturer, so giving loans was out of the question up until that point. Even now it seems I doubt the EU would permit national governments to offer loans if there was another viable European large aircraft manufacturer backed by different set of regional and national governments. Doesn't the EU object to loans or other types of aid given to companies in other industries where there are multiple European competitors, like airlines or the auto industry for example?

ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
frontiers4ever
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:15 am

"now they are about invest in Patty Murray's home turf."

Please dont bother saying its her home turf. Its even more Dino Rossi's home turf. The first person to win the popular vote for office and never be allowed to serve a day in office because King County is really good at counting. Washington (the state) is so screwed up it isnt even funny. Well at least they got Bill Gates.

-Frontiers4ever
Until you prove, your right, your wrong
 
L-188
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:20 am

The reason why Airbus would be interested in Washington state, is because it is already an area with a high level of aerospace skills, and not just at boeing but at a lot of support companies

Very true today, but I would also like to point out that one of the original reasons why so much aircraft manufacurting occured in Washington State has/had a large number of aluminum plants, and hydro-electric power.

The latter is why electric intense industries such as aluminum smelting located there. As well as the Hanford plant.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:33 am

Is Washington state the only candidate? I know Boeing was considering a plant in Kinston, NC..

A plant in Kinston would do well since the GE Aircraft engine facility is in Raleigh..

Plus they would have a facility that is ready except for the internal machinery.. 11,000 ft runway.. would this site be possible?
Aiming High and going far..
 
trex8
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:45 am

Airbus has contacted EVERY state in the union about a site, obviously for some its all a formality! ( I kinda doubt Hawaii or Alaska are really in the running no matter what incentives their state legislatures may dream up!)

Some (if not most) of the tax breaks for Boeing from WA state for the 7e7 program are specific only for 7e7 production, they would not even apply to other Boeing production lines let alone another manufacturer so those who feel its hypocrisy for Airbus to site in the US and scream unfair about tax breaks for Boeing are in the outfield.
 
N79969
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:49 am

Lufthansa,

No one is denying the very obvious business benefits of locating in Washington.

However EADS is amidst a big PR campaign in the US trying to present itself as an American company and one cannot ignore the political dimension of this potential investment in Washington state.

Airbus is savvy political operator and to the credit of Airbus, they scored a coup this week by getting Glenn Fukushima to lead Airbus Japan. Glenn Fukushima is a very well connected former U.S. trade official and businessman that knows Japan well.
 
Trvlr
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:57 am

I'm all for an Airbus plant in the United States. Not only would it increase the competitiveness of the domestic aircraft industry, but it would also move the center of gravity of the global aircraft market back towards the US. I fail to see how this could even be construed as a "victory" for Europe, considering the costs that could be associated with actually making it happen (exporting jobs, the virtual necessity of partnering with another American firm such as Lockheed, the possibility that practically all of the plane will have to be built in the United States, as opposed to completing 50% of the work in France, etc etc).

An Airbus plant in the United States will strengthen the American aerospace industry as a whole by creating a more competitive and quality-centered environment. Boeing will get the competitive shot in the arm it needs. US jobs will be gained (at the expense of European ones). Companies such as Lockheed or Northrop Grumman may very well see a (re)entry into the commercial plane market. I'm surprised we aren't seeing established American defense firms tripping over themselves to help land this deal.

In my opinion, it seems that Airbus is so concerned with the sheer notion of having a presence in the United States that they may very well undermine the European aircraft industry by outsourcing work to make a political statement. Remember, even Boeing's 787 outsourcing is nothing in comparison to what Airbus has said even preliminarily about what A330 tanker production in the U.S. will involve. This doesn't even take into account the production rights a U.S. firm may gain in this deal.

If Airbus wants to bid for this contract and build a plant in America, then I welcome them with open arms. The Europeans will get their morale boost, and the Americans will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Aaron G.
 
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:57 am

Ha! So now WA state is going to give yet another aircraft manufacturer subsidies...
 
atmx2000
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:03 pm

I'm just wondering what they would do with a plant once the USAF the rather small number of tankers they plan on acquiring.
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meister808
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:21 pm

Wow.

I have friends from Everett, and that is just insane that Airbus would even think about putting a site there. That place is Boeing-City, USA. Boeing pays for the public schools. Boeing pays for the roads. The biggest parade in town is through the Boeing factory.

Needless to say, there would be some serious hard feelings if an Airbus plant went in at PAE. Not to say that it is a bad idea, because the fact is clear that there are a load of qualified workers in that area.

-Meister
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trex8
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RE: 3 Washington Cities Bid For Airbus Plant

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:32 pm

There will only be a plant if
1. Airbus gets a contract
2. its big enough to sustain a US assembly line
3. if Airbus treats its workers in the US like they do in Europe, those workers won't be getting laid off every downturn in the industry like Boeing does at least, though its likely to be more a Lockheed plant turning out an Airbus product than a real Airbus plant

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