juventus
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Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:51 pm

Lately, Boeing has been racking up 737 orders in Japan and China. New Indian LCC SpiceJet has just ordered 10 next generation 737s. Most predicted that Airbus was on pace to sell more aircraft in 2005, but once again, the 737 is really coming through for Boeing.
 
juventus
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:12 pm

An ATA 737 check-airman said to me that he didn't like the 737 because old and new technology don't work together very well. I've never flown the 737, but if Boeing continues to sell it, something has to be working right.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:13 pm

An ATA 737 check-airman said to me that he didn't like the 737 because old and new technology don't work together very well.

Yeah, well... Now he knows why SWA is his new daddy. No one else seems to have this problem.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:26 pm

Yep. After 5,000 737s ordered, Boeing is doing something right with this bird.
Now the big question is.....which airline will get the 5,000th 737 assembled?
Regards.
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DeltaWings
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:50 pm

BTW, which was the most successful 737 variant so far? Could it be the -700?


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Boeing7E7
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:56 pm

It should be, but since the last WN order, Boeing has sold a rather large number of -800's. If you go to Boeings site to can pull an order history and count them up.
 
qxq400
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:19 am

The 737 is based on an old design.Big deal the new tech. plus the cost of operating this plane must still be current. Southwest and Airtran use and all Boeing fleet.
They are 2 of the 3 airlines in the US. that turned a profit last year.So the 737 follows the old saying "If it aint broke do not fix it!"

GO BOEING Smile
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:24 am

As far as I know the most popular "original" (-100, -200, -200Adv) 737 is the -200Adv, the most popular "classic" (-300, -400, -500) 737 is the -300, and the most popular "next generation" (-600, -700, -800, -900) 737 is the -800.

I know the 737-200 (including the -200 Advanced and the -200 Combi) was the most popular of the bunch, not sure if the -700 or -800 has beat it yet or not.

But still, if Boeing can sell 5,000 of those 737s they must be pretty damn good I think!!



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juventus
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:28 am

I agree. The 737-800 and 900 practically put the 757 out of business.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:34 am

Yeah, the 737 just keeps chugging along. To me, the success of the 737NG series is the most amazing, given the strong competition by the excellent A320 family. Having flown in the original -200s and the -700 & 800 it's remarkable how much nicer the new ones are. I love the old Fat Alberts but I like the new ones much better.

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iowa744fan
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:36 am

To answer an earlier question, according to a site that I found:

http://www.b737.org.uk/ordersanddeliveries.htm

Here are the total orders/delivered for the different 737 models:

737-100 30/30
737-200 1114/1114
737-300 1113/1113
737-400 486/486
737-500 389/389
737-600 73/56
737-700 974/615
737-800 1207/824
737-900 55/46
BBJ1 77/71
BBJ2 12/10
Totals 5530/4754

I would assume that these figures are fairly recent as the most recent article on this website is about Kitty Hawk's decision to take 7 737-300SFs on Jan 17, 2005. However, I would imagine some of the more recent orders such as the Indian orders and perhaps the JAL order are not included.

As for the honor of who should get the 5000th 737. Personally, I believe that you should always give that honor to one of your loyal and longtime customers. Although some airlines have spent more with Boeing by ordering larger jets (SQ, UA, etc.), I think that the honor of the 5.000th 737 should go to the largest 737 user, Southwest (whose current 737 fleet is nearly equal to 10% of all 737s delivered!).
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:37 am

Count BBJ1 in with the -700 numbers, and BBJ2 in with the -800 numbers.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
gearup
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:22 am

Every 737 fan has their reasons for loving this aircraft, here are some of mine:

Just love that classic Boeing nose it got from the 707/727 WITH the eyebrow windows.
Ever watch the integral airstairs operate? It's a thing of beauty and makes the aircraft more versatile.
Simple landing gear, no main doors yet when retracted the underbelly still looks clean.
I just love those non-circular engine air intakes, they just look awesome.
Loved the thrust-reversers on the 200 model. When it lands with full flap and it deploys with the spoilers, it looks like everything in sight is moving. A joy to behold.
It would seem the 737 is the perfect aircraft for LCC's - non containerised cargo hold, low ground clearance, integral airstairs.
My favourite is the 700 but I like the 200 and the 500 also.
Very reliable, solid and easy to maintain.
Need I go on?

This is not to take anything away from the A320, another fine aircraft but the 737 is special.
I will shut up now lest I upset the A320 fans. Big grin

GU
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BALandorLivery
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:50 am

Gearup :

I TOTALLY AGREE!

The 737 has proved itself over time. Fantastic aircraft.

Regds.
 
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:55 am

the 737, as most others have stated, is a very FINE and beautiful aircraft. I hope that when the replacement for the 737 line comes, that it will be just as successful.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:16 am

Now that you point it out, I realize that Airtran is flying brand new, 40 year old planes! The DC-9 and the 737. Haha.
I don't really think that the 737NG has much "old tech" left. I mean, new avionics, new engines, new APU, and much new electrical stuff. Okay, so that leaves what, the fuselage?
So the next time I hear the 737 called 'low tech' I will laugh. Southwest requested that Boeing NOT build it fly-by-wire, as did other operators (Modern Boeing Jetliners, 2000).

R
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:20 am

Is it just me, or is the -600 and -900 versions pretty much non needed aircrafts?

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BALandorLivery
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:23 am

Well JAL needs the -900X

as for the -600 its a bit of a flop. Too heavy basically.
 
7e72004
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:26 am

isn't the -500 and -600 part of the "classic" set and are thus not NGs? COrrect me if i am wrong  Smile
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PanAm747
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:45 am

Honda has made Accords and Civics since Jimmy Carter was in office and disco reigned supreme on vinyl discs called records. Toyota has been making the Camry almost as long.

The 737 may not be the perfect plane, but it is the most flexible when it comes to modification. It has more models than any other Boeing model, and has even outlived its younger siblings in production.

It just simply is a design that works.

And in answer to your question, Jeremy (7E72004), the original -100 model was quickly supplanted by the much more successful -200 model. Boeing ended production quickly on the -100, and for a while only built the -200.

There were two batches of "Next Generation" 737's to come along - the -300/400/500, and the -600/700/800. The -300 was considered a replacement for the -200, the -400 was a stretched version, and the -500 was a shorter and not terribly fuel-efficient but fleet-common version.

Then came the current "Next Generation" - the -600, a poor seller, but one heck of a hot-rod as I understand, the -700 (the -300's replacement), and the -800, a cross between a 737-400 and a 757-200 in terms of capacity. The -900, I believe is an extension of that.

Lord have mercy, it's scary when a Boeing nut can't even keep all the models straight!! I hope I got that all correct...let me know if something needs fixing!
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juventus
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:15 am

I'm begining to think that the 737 line will never close. My opinion- In a few years UAL, NW, USAIR, AA, CO, and Delta will replace their 757s with NG737s. Added to that, Southwest becomes the largest airline in the world.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:22 am

Juventus:

I doubt that. The 757s have enough life left in them that they can suffice until they are replaced by either the composite 737 replacement or the 787-3.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
juventus
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:37 am

N328KF
When I say a few years, I mean 10-15 years. There are some very old 757s flying out there. I see the 737-800 and 900 as the perfect replacement.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:48 am

Juventus:

I do not believe the 737 will be in production at that time.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:00 am

That's pretty amazing after all these years the -200 is still the #1 model in terms of deliveries and beat out the -300 by just one! I'll have to look at the deliveries list a bit more--the only -400s I've flown on in the U.S. were with AS and US, and seems the -400 had the bulk of its sales overseas.
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SFOMEX
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:01 am

Guys, I have a question. I know that AM is getting brand new 737's NG, but I don know if they are -700, -800 or -900. Does somebody know which type is the correct? Thanks in advance!
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AA737-823
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:09 am

SFO MEX:
They are -700s.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:20 am

isn't the -500 and -600 part of the "classic" set and are thus not NGs? COrrect me if i am wrong

The -600 is basically the NG version of the -500. It served it's purpose, and doesn't cost anything extra for Boeing to produce it. The small development costs were easily covered by the sales of the -700 and -800.
 
TradewindL1011
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:20 am

N328KF-

Your opinion is fine and dandy, but do you have any supporting arguments to back it up?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:25 am

TradewindL1011:

Not hard evidence. Just that Boeing has made indications that a 737 replacement is about five years after the 787. It's also just common sense.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:34 am

Hi N328KF

What impact will the MMA and other military variants have on the production run for the 737? MMA will require over 100 frames not counting any foreign sales. There should also be further demand for C-40 range. I understand Boeing were considering a production line soley for Military variants, is it possible this demand could keep production going for another 10-15 years? Just a question.

Regards
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Jj
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:35 am

SFOMEX, I understood most were -700´s but I´m not sure

And you have to love the 737. I mean look at all the airlines it helped build, look how reliable it is that many airlines in the 3rd world are still using examples built in the 60´s/70´s... I don´t know this plane is just magic. It´s the DC-3 of the jet age  Smile

Edit-- typos
 
gearup
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:39 am

It´s the DC-3 of the jet age

Well said!

GU
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glideslope
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:43 am

"An ATA 737 check-airman said to me that he didn't like the 737 because old and new technology don't work together very well."

"Yeah, well... Now he knows why SWA is his new daddy. No one else seems to have this problem."


Right to the point with this one. Well done.  Big thumbs up
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LMP737
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:03 am

An ATA 737 check-airman said to me that he didn't like the 737 because old and new technology don't work together very well.



I'm trying to figure out wha this check airman means when he says "old and new technology". From an avionics standpoint the 737NG is a completely different aircraft. That along with a new wing, vertical and horizontal stabs, updated engines, new APU, new packs to name a few changes. Maybe he's referring to the "classic feel" of the cockpit. Which of course what Boeing was trying to achieve anyway.
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gkirk
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:08 am

Well, just goes to show, you cant beat the golden oldies  Big thumbs up
Surprised none of the Airbus lot have replied here yet  Big grin
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:08 am

why are the engines non-circular?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:14 am

PANAM_DC10:

AvWeek talked about the additional production line for the military stuff. However, it would be more expensive for civil production as workers have to be cleared, and it is not intended for the same sort of volume.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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N328KF
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:24 am

Tockeyhockey:

It's those new oval fans!

Just kidding. The engine itself is normal, but the nacelle has to be shallower on the bottom in order to prevent scrapes. All models from the 737-300 onward have this general shape. It's much larger than the nacelles from the 737-100/-200, which did not have as much risk of striking land.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
N766UA
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:30 am

My opinion- In a few years UAL, NW, USAIR, AA, CO, and Delta will replace their 757s with NG737s

I disagree. The 737 simply cannot do what a 757 can, regardless of how many fusulage plugs you throw in.
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juventus
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:46 am

N766UA
I think your are talking about performance. A 737 burns less fuel, and gives you more options (short runways, thin routes). Can you picture the DL 757 doing the East Coast shuttle?
 
A319114
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:55 am

Lately, Boeing has been racking up 737 orders in Japan and China. New Indian LCC SpiceJet has just ordered 10 next generation 737s. Most predicted that Airbus was on pace to sell more aircraft in 2005, but once again, the 737 is really coming through for Boeing.

Well the year is far from over. Sure, a nice start for Boeing but the year ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

What I do find really strange however, is that most of the Boeing fanatics are praising 'their' thirty year old 737 airframe while bashing Airbus in other topics because they're using the 'outdated' A330 airframe to develop the A350.

I think the 737NG is the perfect example of how successful a relatively simple conversion of an existing airframe can be.

Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
B777fan
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:19 am

N328KF

I thought the oval shape was to help minimize FOD. With a circular nacelle the inlet would be much closer to the ground and would be vacuuming (hoovering for you Brits) the runway.

I hope I'm not wrong cause that's what I've been telling eveyone for years!
 
Thrust
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:27 am

The 737's recent success proves that the age of the design is in fact irrelevant. If the 737 can easily be made even more successful like this, then surely so can the 747? If it is actually that possible, Boeing is very foolish to write off ever making the 747 into a superjumbo eventually. Boeing is not going away for a long time. That is quite clear.
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thunder9
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:29 am

N766UA's reply #40 got me thinking (yes, that's dangerous, at times!) about potential 73X stretches (ala 737-900X). My thought are pertaining mostly to the powerplants.

The 737-300 through -900 series use the CFM-56 series engines, right? IIRC, the DC-8-70 series and later KC-135 variants use CFM-56's with higher thrust ratings, so I was wondering if the 737-900X (or later variants) would be able to utilize those higher thrust rated CFM-56 engines?

If so, then the latest 737 aircraft might just be able to what a 757 can, contrary to N766UA's post. I'm not being argumentative, just trying to cover all the areas of thought on this premise.

-J
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:32 am

Thanks N328KF

I agree, production for military varients would run at lower volume.

Regards
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tinpusher007
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:32 am

The reason for the oval-shaped engine nacelles is also to provide more clearance for the engine during crosswind landings when then wing might be lower to the ground than normal. Check out the DL733 landing rwy 31 at LGA and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwindow.php?cat=74&pic=1851

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phollingsworth
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:51 am

One of the reasons for the success of the 737-800 is it is an almost perfect replacement for the 727-200 (So is the A320). It has better payload range and operating economics when compared to the 727, but seats just as many people. This is something the 757 never did. It was significantly larger, 20+, seats. This is one of the major reasons for the initial success of the A320, there just wasn't a competing aircraft. What you get is a good aircraft alone in a large replacement and new a/c market, a great recipe for success. It only took Boeing a decade to realize their folly. Oh Well.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:43 am

I disagree. The 737 simply cannot do what a 757 can, regardless of how many fusulage plugs you throw in.

The 767/787 size aircraft meets the incremental growth requirement and the 737-800 has already proven to be the optimum replacement aircraft unless the carrier wan't to jump to the widebody. This has held true for nearly 20 years. It's an odd gapping in size from 150 to 190/200 seats, but it does hold true.

The larger the networks got, the lower the demand for a 200 seat narrowbody became. This isn't to say that it won't grow to 160 through incremental demand increases, it's just stating that the dominant 140 seat, was replaced by 150 in 90's to current and will be followed by 160 in the next cycle. I'm pretty confident Boeings 737 and Airbuses 320 replacement will have a 160 seat design in mind. What is now 120/140/170 seats will become 140, 160, 180 seats.
 
Derik737
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RE: Once Again, The 737 Saves The Day For Boeing.

Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:46 am

I'm trying to figure out what this check airman means when he says "old and new technology".

Perhaps he is talking about the overhead panel. The overhead panel is very similar to a classic. Rumor is that the engineers at Boeing wanted to design it to be similar to the 777, but Southwest resisted that design to maintain commonality with the classics.

The A320 is a bit more advanced in it's system displays and integration. Look at the 777 systems or for that matter, the E-Jets. They both have much more modern system displays and functionality. The 737NG system displays are fairly basic but do work rather well (and they keep light bulb companies in business).

It will be interesting to see how the airframe ages with the changes that were incorporated for the NG. I've heard stories about some of the first "heavy" checks on NG's, but until we experience one for ourselves, I don't have any first hand info.

In the end, the 737 is a good airplane. Even though it will be replaced someday, Boeing will continue to make improvements and it will continue it sales record.

Speaking of improvements, have you seen the new vortex generators below the windshields (just behind the radome)? This is to reduce cockpit noise.