hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am

How is LH doing in LatAm, and what are the plans for the future?

As of Feb/05, there will be some changes in the schedule, but overall here are LH routes in the region:

GRU: 14 x week nonstop flights (7 x A346 and 7 x B747);
MEX-CUN: 8 x week nonstop flights with the B747;
EZE: 7 x week with the B747 (1 stop in GRU);
SCL: 7 x week with the A346 (1 stop in GRU);
CCS: 5 x week nonstop flights with the A343;

In full codeshare with RG, LH also operates FRA-GRU-GIG daily with the B772 and FRA-GIG daily with the MD-11.

Any chances of LH landing in BOG to take over the route from BA? When is CCS expected to go daily?

Rgs,
 
EddieDude
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:09 am

Hi Hardi. I am surprised to see the info on 8 weekly flights to MEX and CUN. As far as I knew, LH was only flying once daily to MEX only from FRA.

Last year, LH flew once daily FRA-MEX all year long and added 3 additional flights, also with the 744, during the summer season. This year, unfortunately, there will be no additional flights.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:13 am

As far as I knew, LH was only flying once daily to MEX only from FRA.

LH added one additional flight MEX-CUN (LH496) operating on Saturdays. I'm not aware whether it will operate only provisionally or all Summer/05.

Rgs,



 
EddieDude
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:32 am

Thanks for the update Hardi. It's good news to see cities other than MEX served by European carriers. Too bad AM and MX do not venture on trans-Atlantic service from CUN.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:24 am

MEX-CUN must be a codeshare with MX.....lufthansa.com does not show any flights MEX-CUN, thus it has to be a codeshare.
 
Fabi727
Posts: 27
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:24 am


I read that LH flights to Caracas will start on 28 of March, daily.At that time Air France will also commence its daily flights with 747-400s.
I flew LH to Caracas on the 21 of December on a 747-400 but it was a special service for a week due to demand and it really was full. I noticed a lot of people coming from Poland connecting to Margarita Island and of course others connecting to Colombia and Peru.
 
hardiwv
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:30 am

MEX-CUN must be a codeshare with MX

No. LH flies FRA-MEX-CUN, and does not have 5th freedom rights MEX-CUN. LH uses the B747 for this service.

I read that LH flights to Caracas will start on 28 of March, daily

Interesting development, so LH and AF will serve CCS with daily flights as of March/05? It seems they were quick to capitalise on KL and BA withdrawal.

Does LH have any partnership to connect pax onward from CCS to LIM, and/or BOG?

Rgs,
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:44 am

There has been lots of gossip regarding BOG, even before BA announced they were going to leave, one of the "optioned to return" in the aforementioned gossip is LH and the other is AZ, but I don't think any of those is coming back soon.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
lanperu
Posts: 602
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:51 am

I really wish that LH would give LIM another go. A two-class A340-300 could probably operate with decent loads in both cabins, even if it's 3-4 time a week.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:00 am

there´s no such a thing as LH serving CUN. LH's MEX services terminate at MEX.
i wouldn't hold my breath for new LatAm destinations served by LH. they're pretty much focused on GRU which is nothing else but a German suburb (more than 1000 german companies got branch offices there).
don't know about CCS which apparently seems to be succesful but all the other and former LatAm destinations seem to be weak links in the network.

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:09 am

i wouldn't hold my breath for new LatAm destinations served by LH. they're pretty much focused on GRU which is nothing else but a German suburb (more than 1000 german companies got branch offices there).

Indeed, and dont forget the huge German colony in Sao Paulo and South Brazil; in some cities German is still widely spoken.

there´s no such a thing as LH serving CUN. LH's MEX services terminate at MEX.

You're correct. CUN-MEX is operated by MX, with the 757. And as of March, LH will serve MEX 7 x week (and not 8 x week as stated above).

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-12 20:12:58]
 
gte439u
Posts: 330
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:58 am

Indeed, and dont forget the huge German colony in Sao Paulo and South Brazil; in some cities German is still widely spoken.

Generally, the German-Brazilian community has fully integrated into Brazilian society. German is no longer widely spoken in the far south of Brazil except by the immigrants and some of their children. However, there are certain towns in the south such as Blumenau (Santa Catarina), which was settled by Germans in the late 19th century, where the architecture and food is distinctly Germanic. However, the language is still the distinct Portuguese of Southern Brazil. As with the European diaspora in other parts of the world, it is uncommon for them to return to their ancestral homeland frequently.

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:15 am

Generally, the German-Brazilian community has fully integrated into Brazilian society.

Correct, as have any other different communities, from Africans (ex-slaves for the Portuguese colonisers) to Japanese and Arabs.

.As with the European diaspora in other parts of the world, it is uncommon for them to return to their ancestral homeland frequently

Many European-Brazilians, Japanese-Brazilians, Arab-Brazilians, of second or third generation, do travel frequently to their homeland, and also migrated back to their homeland. This is represented, for example, in the amount of Brazilian-Italians, Brazilian-Germans and, above all, Japanese-Brazilians with dual nationality that keep busy the VRF's loads of flights to these destinations. [note RG and JAL flights NRT-GRU, for example: if you happen to be in GRU when RG or JL flights from NRT arrive you have the impression you are in Japan  Smile].

Rgs,
 
Avianca
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:43 am

I see the following future routes for LH to Latin American City´s.

beginning a 3/7 from MUC to MEX using A346 after a time upgrade to a daily service.

a 4/7 from FRA to MEX using a 2class A343.

reinstall the MUC-GRU flight just after 6 month Varig beginns....

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:03 am

I see it slightly different:

FRA-MEX 7x A380
FRA-CCS 7x A343
FRA-GRU-GIG 7x 747, maybe A380
FRA-GRU-SCL 7x A346
FRA-EZE 7x A343


and from my wishlist:

FRA-BOG-LIM 7x A343
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:52 am

My guesS:

FRA-GRU-GIG 7 x A380;
FRA-GRU 7 X A346;
FRA-MEX 7 x A380;
FRA-EZE 7 x B747;
FRA-CCS 7 X A343;
FRA-SCL 4 x A343;
FRA-BOG-LIM 4 X A343

Rgs,
 
Sabena332
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Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:02 am

FRA-GRU-GIG 7 x A380

I think that GIG will dissapear completely from LH's network, why should they send their own planes when passengers can connect comfortable on RG via GRU or take the nonstop flight from FRA to GIG on RG? LH already stopped the nonstop flight from FRA to GIG (operated by the 343 in F/C/Y configuration in the past) and now they will even stop the GRU-GIG flights in favor of GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL. GIG is a low yield market, maybe they will send a 343 in C/Y configuration without F nonstop from FRA on a few days a week, but I really doubt that they will fly FRA-GRU-GIG on the A 380 in the future.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:21 am

<FRA-BOG-LIM 4 X A343>

only a 4 times a week conection including both destination with A343, this will not work. more possible a 4/7 to bog and a 3/7 to lim direclty. but i doubt LH step in two new markets the same time. first bog and 1 or 2 years later lim again. we will see

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
PPVRA
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:46 am

reinstall the MUC-GRU flight just after 6 month Varig beginns....

RG is doing 4X weekly and LH 3X weekly, at least that's what it was supposed to be before GRU-MUC-PEK got delayed.

I doubt we'll see the A380 here anytime soon... We'll see other destinations, possibly served by RG, connecting Brazil to Germany in maybe a few years, depending on RG's situation.

I think a 7X weekly POA-SSA/BSB-FRA can do well.

Serving 1X daily A380 to a country the size of Brazil don't make much sense.

As far as GIG goes, I think they will leave the city temporarily.

Cheers,

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:18 am

See Hardiwv, you didint have to correct me just for the pleasure of it, as you were awfuly wrong, check your facts next time.

Anyway, I dont know about LH´s plans but they are a little aircraft short and they are more focused on Asia right now. Maybe when they recive the new A340-600s they could re-start BOG and LIM, but I dont see that happening in 3 or more years.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:05 pm

yep, i agree with the last post.

may i add two more points in regard to GIG and EZE.

i think the main reason why LH now dropped GIG again is that it wanted to serve both EZE and SCL on a daily basis via GRU. (apparently FRA-EZE-SCL was not that succesful) so GRU-GIG had to go.
however, should LH one day re-introduce EZE again as nonstop and still keep the 2nd daily GRU, i could imagine that GIG could come back online again.
i agree that GIG itself does not seem to be a lucrative destination, but as an add-on onto the GRU leg LH would only require a small number of pax to gain a contribution from the GIG service to help cover expenses so it could make sense.

some post suggested that LH should use an A343 nonstop to EZE. i'm afraid that's never gonna happen. believe it or not, a fully loaded A343 (at least the older ones) has already a hard time making it nonstop to GRU (despite its great range) and even the A346 can't take all the cargo on one of the trips (i think it's on the westbound leg). EZE is pretty much stretching the range and payload capabilities of LH's A340 fleet.

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
TGV
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:32 pm

Interesting development, so LH and AF will serve CCS with daily flights as of March/05? It seems they were quick to capitalise on KL and BA withdrawal.

AF has already been flying daily to CCS for more than one year.

For the summer schedule (March 27th) they will only increase capacity, changing the A343 for a B744.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:36 pm

I wouldn't hold my breath for any Lufthansa expansion in South America. The airline seems to be firmly focused on Asia, and is aiming at opening new destinations and boosting frequencies both in China and India. So the little extra longhaul capacity that might become available is sure to be deployed in that part of the world, and, if anything, I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily FRA-GRU-SCL routing.

 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:55 pm

Does LH have any partnership to connect pax onward from CCS to LIM, and/or BOG?
LH publishes fares via CCS:
to BOG with AV and VH
to LIM with TA and VH
to UIO/GYE with VH
within Venezuela with R7.
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:10 pm

My guess on LH routes:
MEX and GRU get A380 service. Anything else is just an opinion.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:07 pm

I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily FRA-GRU-SCL routing.

Indeed, it seems LH is focused on GRU in the region. Next comes MEX, EZE and CCS. I think these destinations are bound to remain on LH network, and expansion will be based on them.

SCL is a big question mark, and as you said, has its very last chance.

LH also got 5th freedom rights GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL, it is advertising fares with normal prices (Y fares for EZE at USD350 and Y fares for SCL at USD550, return). LH may pick up some pax on these routes since GRU is strong with Star FFs (because of RG hube being there). But competition on GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL is fierce with several (widebody) flights per day.

MEX and GRU get A380 service. Anything else is just an opinion.

Agree.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:33 pm

Some of you sound too pessimistic about SCL. LH serves SCL daily since a couple of years. The only think that has recently changed is, that they serve SCL now via GRU instead of EZE. The GRU routing is half an hour faster than via EZE, so I don't see any sign to worry regarding SCL.
I agree that SCL is the weakest in South America for LH, but I can't see any sign that they gave them something like a 'last chance'.

A nonstop again to EZE would result in a plane sitting around in GRU. I could see LH extending it to GIG. GRU and GIG have a good combination of business and leasure traffic. The leg to GRU serves the business community while the back is filled with onward traffic to GIG. But a single flight to GIG wouldn't be successfull for LH, too less high yield pax. But a combination of GRU and GIG makes sense.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:51 pm

So, to go nonrev this summer AMS-CCS, would you recommend LH or AF? AF has the bigger a/c but would it be more fully booked?
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:29 am

it is a big mistake what a lot of think to focus only the brazil market.

Allot of countrys in South America are growing in special Colombia, why should LH not reintring the market? In this countrys are a lot of passengers travelling to Inida, China and rest of Asia and for sure to complete Europe. For example Air France and American Airlines get a good amount of passengers in transit to Asia. Yield on this routes are healthy.

Why should they close the SCL route, Route is good booked and with not so much competition. As mentioned Colombian econmmy is growing and growing byside the problems in the country.

It is also a fact that LH has a very good name in South America. I know some people who uses LH from BOG to MAD via FRA. Not really a logical routing but LH is vey well know as a very quality carrier.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:04 am

I used LH from BOG to MAD via FRA. It was b/c LH was nice and obscenely cheap. LH has a good reputation in Colombia. Many people still transit at CCS to get LH. Thats why CCS is doing so good, b/c a third of the passengers are coming from Colombia and Peru.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5274
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:08 am

for example my wife and my parents also only like to travel with LH via CCS to Colombia... and for me, I am always tooks the cheapest no matter what airline...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:15 am

Hi guys...

My LH information sources have confirmed: There are NO plans of dropping SCL from LH´s network. LH has always been successful at SCL, specially with the CARGO business. Even back in 1980 (difficult political and economical times) LH still flew to Chile. Too many German business in Chile, too many Germans living across Chile and lot of adventure tourism from Germany.

Actually BUE´s load aren´t satisfactory since the Argentine crisis. Also too long flight (FRA-BUE-SCL) for the german cabin crew (according to the German work legislation). That flight has always to ask for special permits due too much weight and delays...

SCL remains LH destination in Latin America!


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LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:32 am

Hey Aero totally agree with you only not in one point.

I don´t think LH is very sucessfull in the Cargo Market to SCL.
Rates are still good and flights have good loadfactors, but the problem is the limited space on the flights. They can not load more than 2 or 3 uld´s on the flights with destination SCL.

The big player in the SCL market it without a question LA.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:47 am

I don't see any sign to worry regarding SCL. I agree that SCL is the weakest in South America for LH, but I can't see any sign that they gave them something like a 'last chance'.

Could be. Actually the routing via GRU changed for the better since travel time now is reduced in about 30min.

However, you have to keep in mind that Star partner RG would stand ready to feed LH flights out of GRU. I'm also sure RG is not happy with LH eating market share of RG's flights from GRU to EZE and SCL. A daily B747 to EZE and A346 to SCL will be a lot of seats on the market!

They can not load more than 2 or 3 uld´s on the flights with destination SCL

Any reason for this? I also assume that LH's new routing via GRU will also compromise most of the cargo to GRU, without leaving much space for the onward leg to SCL. [although LH does fly 3/4 cargo flights to CPQ].

LH has a good reputation in Colombia. Many people still transit at CCS to get LH. Thats why CCS is doing so good, b/c a third of the passengers are coming from Colombia and Peru.

That's an interesting fact. If 1/3 of pax traveling with LH out of CCS are from Colombia and Peru, I think LH should indeed reinstate flights to BOG. But then maybe loads to CCS will drop considerably.

Actually BUE´s load aren´t satisfactory since the Argentine crisis.

Do you think that SCL had a bigger share of LH's flight FRA-EZE-SCL?

i could imagine that GIG could come back online again.

Maybe, but RG now is flying daily FRA-GIG nonstop with the MD-11; and higher yielding Star FFs would prefer a nonstop flight over a LH flight via GRU. Also, connecting from GRU to GIG is very easy.

Rgs,
 
Arcano
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:07 am

I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily FRA-GRU-SCL routing.

Actually, Chile is giving LH a last chance if we want to talk of last chances. LH is a very secondary player in Chile, already too much competition: LA/IB/AF/RG/AR. Chilean people will always prefer LAN for going to FRA, so LH demand will depend mostly of Germans, that we can agree are not enough for filling 346s in their way to Chile.

AF is also becoming stronger, remember they are resuming the non stop CDG-SCL and that will hurt LH a lot.

But regardless what posted, I think LH is not necessarily thinking of closing Chile after all those years, I think they are just trying to reach the optimal combination for GRU/GIG/EZE/SCL that maximizes the profits, an exercise very complex and not easy at all; an optimal requires to know all restriction and try to model a profit function to be maximized (a lot of mathematical modeling).

Let's see if we are witnessing LH's last days in Chile or not. Obviously, I hope not! (and I would love to see them sending a 744 and not the awful 346!)

Regards)(

in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:18 am

>Any reason for this? I also assume that LH's new routing via GRU will also compromise most of the cargo to GRU, without leaving much space for the onward leg to SCL. [although LH does fly 3/4 cargo flights to CPQ]<

yes mostly cargo to brazil tranported by LH is going to CPQ / VCP with the MD11 Freighter.

One reason why SCL receives a small amount on LH is that they are using the A346 on the route. The A346 in the standart configuration has allot of ULD positions but the LH layout with the lavatorys in the LD-compartments they are only allowed to carry 4 PMC positions for the freight. This is the capacity that has a B767-300, not really much for a flight via GRU to SCL.

Mostly the freight to GRU is tranported with the B.747-400 flight, because LH uses space to EZE on the 2weekly extended freighter services via Senegal and VCP. So the mostly space on the GRU-EZE flight is used for GRU.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Aero
Posts: 183
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:10 am

Do you think that SCL had a bigger share of LH's flight FRA-EZE-SCL?

Well, most of the Business Class passengers from FRA head to SCL instead of BUE. Economy is a different story....but most of the "wealthy" passengers from Frankfurt and those connecting from Sweden (big Chilean population there), Norway, Denmark, Austria and Switzerland continues to SCL....
We just know that fact.

LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:17 am

regarding the freight yes, because LH uses the 2 freighter per week to EZE for the local freight.

The higher percentage of the freight on the FRA-EZE-SCL flight goes to SCL but still not very much...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:31 am

Regarding the restart of BOG, what LH could do is cut CCS to 4x weekly and go BOG 3x weekly, like it did in the past.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:36 am

Regarding the restart of BOG, what LH could do is cut CCS to 4x weekly and go BOG 3x weekly, like it did in the past.
In terms of costs it would be silly. Why should they do that ? They have their passengers to CCS anyway. This means the same capacity, probably the same yield - just higer costs...
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:50 am

...Just wait until AV starts FRA, which is a fact. It doesnt matter if they do well or not, they will add seats and Colombian PAX will probably take AV instead of LH. Then, LH will loose its CCS passengers. Thats why they should restart BOG.
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:19 am

>...Just wait until AV starts FRA, which is a fact.<

RCS763AV, were did you receive the information that AV will start 100 percent FRA again? It is my highest wish that they restart the route, but I don´t think that it is till today 100 percent confirmed. It is more like roumour.

saludos desde alemania

Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:21 am

Actually, Chile is giving LH a last chance if we want to talk of last chances

Chilean people will always prefer LAN for going to FRA, so LH demand will depend mostly of Germans

Both statements are rather pretentious.

Chileans even use RG to go to FRA [this is based on my own personal experience], why wouldnt they use LH? This is the first time that I read such a statement: one country only uses one airline to go to a destination. Or the country is extremely under-served or the local airline subsidies tickets. This would also be the first time that an airline serves a country wihtout having local pax base...

Iam sure LH does transport Chileans on its route to SCL, and even more than LAN. Otherwise it would have stopped flying to SCL long time ago.

Just wait until AV starts FRA, which is a fact

Any information on type of equipment, frequencies and route (nonstop or stop in MAD?). It may well trigger a reaction by LH.

Rgs,
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:56 am

>Any information on type of equipment, frequencies and route (nonstop or stop in MAD?).<

sadly we first need to wait till AV anounced the route. In my opinion they will introduce a nonstop service, a stop in MAD makes no sence. The B762 is to small for a route BOG-MAD-FRA. The good old days where AV operated the B.742 on the route FRA-CDG-MAD-CCS-BOG-LIM are long time ago.

I hope we will receive a 3 or 4/7 conection with AV to BOG from FRA.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:58 am

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Well, its not like they did a press release, but Efromovich already said he wanted AV in Europe and quickly, thats why I say its a fact (course not a FACT but its obvious it will happen in the short or mid-term). I also hope to see AV in FRA, CDG, LON and maybe FCO/MXP, only time will tell.

Edit: some spelling...

[Edited 2005-02-14 01:01:56]
 
Chiguire
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:16 pm

In case Av opens FRA LH will of course lose some passengers to Colombia. But also to Ecuador and Peru. Maybe even Venezuela itself as AV will most probably offer cheap fares to CCS via BOG. It depends on the capacity they offer.
In this case I agree that LH would have to review the CCS and BOG services. In order not to lose the Colombian market they might think about flying to BOG.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:11 am

Efromovich already said he wanted AV in Europe and quickly

Why FRA? Couldnt AV go back to London (LGW) or, better, CDG so as to compete (or complement) AF on the route. Maybe AV could strike a codeshare deal with AF? Does AV still have a partnerhsip with AF? [I know KLM had an agreement with AV through GlobalPass, but AV is not a member of LatinPass anymore, correct?]

I would say that CDG has more potential for AV [FRA is just a medium-sized town, and AV would need a partner for onward connections. Most pax in FRA are on transit to other destinations].

Rgs,
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:29 am

Germany and in special FRA has a big Colombian comunity.

>FRA is just a medium-sized town< Rhein-Main area has more than 4 millon of people. Just a few citys in this regions are Mainz, Darmstadt ...
There are enough passengers that have final destination Frankfurt!

FRA is very central in Germany!

CDG will have daily flights with AF to BOG, FRA has nothing in the moment.
LGW and FRA are the airports with the biggest chance to get AV flights in Europe.

regards
Avianca



[Edited 2005-02-14 22:51:54]
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:46 am

Hadriwv,

don´t get me wrong, but always in your posts regarding new flights to and from FRA you let us know that FRA can not fill the flight? Please tell me why?

FRA is the regarding the passengers the biggest Airport in continental europe! And for sure not only conecting passengers as you say always. FRA has a bigger OD traffic than many other big citys in europe.

regards
Avianca

[Edited 2005-02-14 22:46:35]
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Southamerica
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RE: Lufthansa In South/Latin America

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:49 am

Does AV still have a partnerhsip with AF?

Sort of. They do not codeshare, but both companies have an efficient cooperative agreement for easy connections in both Bogota and Paris. Full stop there.



I would say that CDG has more potential for AV

AF does not rely on point-to-point traffic between Bogota and Paris, Hardi; and they are probably very far from doing so. Sort of the same situation, for a more familiar case on your side, for DL's flights between Sao Paulo and Atlanta; plenty of connecting passengers.

That is already a significant advantage AF has over any potential AV service.


------------------------------


CDG will have daily flights with AF to BOG


So what? Just take a wild guess about how many of those passengers that will be carried daily from Bogota and Paris are actually connecting travellers...


AV has a strong codeshare with IB, which includes one of the Madrid-Paris flights, and it seems to be working out just fine. Wouldn't be surprised if it stays that way.





SOUTHAMERICA