greenguy01
Posts: 221
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UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:36 am

I was wondering if someone from United out there could answer this question for me. I'm a normal listener to the JFK tower/ground at work and it seems that UAL has these flights on a daily basis so they don't seem like positioning flights. Why are these flights numbered in the 8100 series?

Today 8125 is LAX-JFK
8183 is SFO-JFK

Yesterday 8122 was JFK-LAX
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StevenUhl777
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:23 am

I'm guessing the flights are going by their code-share flight number? I've run across this once...I was flying SEA-IAD on UA916 last July, and that flight # continues on to FRA, after a change of plane at IAD.

Before departing SEA, the Captain announced we'd have Ch. 9 available and said the identifier would be UA916, however in reality it was 8158, which was the codeshare # with LH.

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WestWing
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:38 am

I don't think it is related to code-share flight numbers. My observation is that this happens when there is a change of aircraft with the same flight number (as the example in reply #1). To use the example of the SEA-IAD,IAD-FRA routing, perhaps it is to avoid confusion at IAD if the SEA-IAD aircraft (an A319) was delayed coming in to IAD, while the IAD-FRA aircraft (a 744) was talking to ramp or ready to pushback. They cannot both use UA916. The UA 8000 series flight numbers seem to be used on the domestic legs.


UA 956 SFO->JFK->LHR (762/777)
UA 904 LAX->JFK->LHR (757/777)

(Edited to add specific flights)

Cheers

[Edited 2005-02-14 21:50:29]
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panamair
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:19 am

Westwing is mostly correct. For example, I flew UA936 last night from IAD to ZRH. However, flight 936 is actually published as SFO-IAD-ZRH (the SFO-IAD portion operated by an A320 and the transatlantic flight by a 763ER). Our transoceanic flight was UA8162 last night in all ATC conversations. Because the SFO-IAD could conceivably be delayed, the IAD-ZRH flight could have still left on time - in this case, they need separate call sign flight numbers.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:24 am

Westwing:
Those two flight numbers cannot be confused at IAD for two reasons:
1) The 744 flight would have "heavy" appended to it. Whereas the A320 flight (which is what the a/c is), would not.
2) UA916 from SEA arrives at 3:45 pm local time, and UA916 to FRA departs at 5:20 pm local time. Also, even if the first leg was delayed, they would not continue to reuse any flight numbers.
I'll check with my contact in operations to see what it means.
 
WestWing
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:28 am

Panamair

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know what the registration of your aircraft was and, if you were listening in to Ch. 9, did you hear a very loud background hum on Channel 9 ?

Thanks




[Edited 2005-02-14 22:29:28]
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panamair
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:33 am

Westwing,

UA936 IAD-ZRH last night (Feb 13) was operated by N662UA (ship 6362).

And yes, Ch.9 has a very loud background hum 90% of the time..don't know where the feedback is coming from. To make matters worse last night, all conversations between the cockpit and the in-flight crew as well as those among the f/as came over Ch. 9 as well....
 
greenguy01
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:39 am

Thanks UA772IAD!

This has been bugging me since I started listening to the JFK audio feed.

[Edited 2005-02-14 22:40:15]
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
 
WestWing
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:43 am

UA772IAD

Yes are right that normally the UA916 flights would be separated greatly in time. Otherwise UA could not justify giving you only the great circle mileage for SEA->FRA when they *should* give you SEA->IAD + IAD->FRA  Smile/happy/getting dizzy . I thought that the 8xxx numbers were used only domestically ... which is why I thought it was a way to work around any unforseen delays of flights with a change of aircraft. But as Panamair clarified, the 8xxx numbers are used on an international legs also.

Keep us posted what the UA Ops folks tell you about this.


thanks
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WestWing
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:53 am


Panamair,

Thanks for the info. on your a/c nose number. I had the same experience on ship 6341. Just wanted to verify that it was not a specific aircraft that had the problem. In case you are interested, there were some responses to my question on the hum at:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/109114/

thanks
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HNL
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:54 am

All the UA flights whcih fly the domestic leg of an international flight get the 8100 series flight numbers.


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RDUDDJI
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:42 am

I'm curious...could you use the 'Papa' designator in this circumstance? Or since it's int'l do you have to use two different numbers?

I love Ch. 9. I always choose UA when flying if it's price is comparable just so I can listen in. Too bad mainline doesn't fly to RDU anymore.
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goboeing
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:16 am

All the UA flights whcih fly the domestic leg of an international flight get the 8100 series flight numbers.

Maybe someone can explain this to me because I do not understand it at all. What is the "domestic leg of an international flight"? A domestic leg of an international flight is a domestic flight! There's an international flight, and a domestic flight. They both have the same number. That is all.

Nick
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:26 am

2) UA916 from SEA arrives at 3:45 pm local time, and UA916 to FRA departs at 5:20 pm local time. Also, even if the first leg was delayed, they would not continue to reuse any flight numbers.

Of course they would. They're not going to delay the international flight if the domestic section on a different aircraft type gets dlyed or xld, and they're not going to renumber it suddenly.

N
 
sfo212
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:09 am

To clarify or cloudy the issue even more, it seems that the 8000 flight number is the beginning leg of an international flight that first flies between two domestic cities.

However, when the flight continues on between domestic cities when it was first an international flight it uses the international flight number. Example: United 870 is SYD-SFO, the continuing leg is SFO-ORD. This flight still goes out as flight 870 from SFO-ORD and it also leaves from the domestic terminal at SFO even though it is a different aircraft. I have heard the same thing for flight 838 and others in the 800 series, which are generally Asia/Pacific-USA flights.
 
LAXintl
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:00 pm

United flight numbers 8100-8299 are used in order to avoid radio callsign conflicts with other flights.
This usage is primarily used to ensure and seperate any potential of the same flight number being airborne at the same time. ie-outbound flight departs a hub before the inbound arrives.

Here are some other United callsign uses.
9785-9814 Extra sections
9842-9882 Military Contract flights
9883-9907 Civil Charters
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HNL
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:39 pm

Maybe someone can explain this to me because I do not understand it at all. What is the "domestic leg of an international flight"? A domestic leg of an international flight is a domestic flight! There's an international flight, and a domestic flight. They both have the same number. That is all.

United sells a flight from London to San Diego with a stop in Washington. This marketed as the same flight to the consumer. United uses the 9-- series flight numbers for European international flights and 8--- flight numbers for pacific ops. These international flights can have both a transborder and a domestic tag.

The 8--- flight number is only used in ATC communications (written and verbal). The gate agent still calls the flight as UA 9--.

But as you accurately point out, they are in fact two distinct flights.
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StevenUhl777
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RE: UAL Flights 8125/8183

Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:09 pm

All the UA flights which fly the domestic leg of an international flight get the 8100 series flight numbers.

That explains my experience on UA916 last July, from SEA-IAD, when listening to Ch. 9 then... Big grin

Or...maybe it depends on the crew? I flew home from BOS in Aug. 2003. The IAD-SEA flight was on a 752...UA917, which originated in FRA on a larger aircraft and changed to a 757 at IAD. Ch. 9 was available, but the Captain referred to us as "United 9-1-7".
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