B747PILOT
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Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:18 pm

Do any of you think that when the 787 is in full production that it will take over the place of another Boeing such as the 757 or 767?
 
747400sp
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:54 pm

Yes in going to replace the 767.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:17 pm

And the 757 is no longer manufactured
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AirWillie6475
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:03 pm

The answer is obvious and it has been talked about. It will replace the 757 and 767.
 
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:15 pm

It seems more likely to replace 767s on medium and long-haul routes than 757s on (mostly) short and medium-haul routes. Continental, for example, fly 757s across the Atlantic and we could see 787s taking over that job in some circumstances. But the 757s that fly around the US and European domestic markets may be better replaced by 737-900(X)s.

...or Airbuses!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:52 pm

It will replace 757's in that at this size, airlines and pax prefer a widebody, the 767 for certain and the 787-9 is now encroaching on the 772 to some extent. The thought being, if you can't fill a 777 going 8,000 miles, you should be able to fill a 787-9 and do it.
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:04 am

First of all in answer to the original question, the 757/767 are the very aircraft that Boeing designed the 787 to replace.

Secondly, I agree that the 787-9 might encrouch on the 777-200ER. Take and airline like DL, for example. I think if the 787-9 was available when they ordered their 777's, they never would have ordered them in the first place The same could be said for 764.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:09 am

Take and airline like DL, for example. I think if the 787-9 was available when they ordered their 777's, they never would have ordered them in the first place The same could be said for 764.

Truer words have never been spoken, and anyone who thinks DL hasn't had a say in the 787 would find themselves very wrong.
 
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (reply 5):
It will replace 757's in that at this size, airlines and pax prefer a widebody.


Hmmm. I can think of a few airlines that have gone the other way. Swissair (may they rest in peace) used to fly A310-200s on several European routes but switched to A321s. KLM also used A310s but now fly 737-900s. You can, of course, be rude about A310s (!) but here are good airlines replacing widebodies with single-aisle aircraft.

And as a passenger myself, I can't honestly say I prefer two aisles on short-haul flights. Long-haul, of course, but LHR-ZRH is just fine in an A321.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:22 am

Swissair (may they rest in peace) used to fly A310-200s on several European routes but switched to A321s.

Yes, but they don't get the range either. That's the killer with both the 321 and 739. The reverse trend from wide to narrow is the exception, not the norm.
 
lvkewlkid
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:25 am

what is the 787 gonna look like?

does anybody have a seat map yet?
 
jayspilot
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787

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:28 am

the 787 takes aim at the airbus 320/330/340 head on. It will also replace the 757 and 767. thats it job and i see it doing it well.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:47 am

does anybody have a seat map yet?

Yes, the basic configs are:

787-3/8 - Three class:

18 F - 2+2+2 at 60"
35 B - 2+3+2 at 39"
170 Y - 2+4+2/Last few rows 2+3+2 at 32"

787-3 - Two Class:

28@ 2+3+2 38" pitch
224@ 3+3+3 32" pitch

296 seat version assumes 36" First 2+3+2 and 30" pitch 3+3+3 in coach.

Likely Configurations (i.e. DL Business Elite type config):

787-3/8:

2 Class:

36 at 2+2+2 60" Pitch
170 @ 32" Pitch or 160 @ 34"

(About the same percentage of seat reduction that exists today for a 767-300.)







 
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RayChuang
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:15 am

The 787 is designed pretty much as a replacement for the 767. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that Boeing offers an "intermediate" range 787 as a true A300B4-600R/A310 replacement.
 
JDD1
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:43 am

Boeing7E7
Yes, but they don't get the range either

I wonder if Airbus(A350) and Boeing(787) are not getting carried away with this range issue. No doubt there is a need for the >6000nm range on some routes but there are many more routes where range <5000nm is not an issue.

There are at least a 1000 A300/A310s/767-200/-300 non ER with 4000-5000nm range in service. Replacing all of these with heavier LR capability will waste a huge amount of fuel and money. The airlines need a direct replacement.

I appreciate that the leasing companies like the flexibility of LR airplanes but the environment does come first. (I'm not blaming them for the state of the environment).
 
N1120A
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:46 am

The 787 is not a 757 replacement. You can argue that it can replace the 753, but it still is heavier and designed for different missions. It will not have the same runway performance and will not fit into many of the gates because of the widebody.

>In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that Boeing offers an "intermediate" range 787 as a true A300B4-600R/A310 replacement.<

They are, it is the 787-3 and will be a perfect A300 replacement. Also, the 787 is aimed at the A332, with the 787-9 model.

BTW, there is no true 757 replacement, certainly not with the same kind of performance, but the A321 and 739X are meant to fill in the gap for that kind of passenger capacity (they are each about 20 seats smaller than the 752)
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JDD1
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:07 am

N1120A
They are, it is the 787-3 and will be a perfect A300 replacement. Also, the 787 is aimed at the A332, with the 787-9 model.

The A332 carries twice as much fuel as the A300 and has a 50ft greater wing span. I would think that the 787-3 would need to have a different wing to the 787-9 to be a "perfect" A300 replacement. Boeing may have been pushed into that by ANA who doesn't need the range. Anybody know?
 
Areopagus
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting JDD1 (reply 16):
I would think that the 787-3 would need to have a different wing to the 787-9 to be a "perfect" A300 replacement.


It does. You might like to peruse http://www.newairplane.com.
 
JDD1
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:31 am

Areopagus
Thanks for the info.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:18 pm

Why not the B737 too,with a few Mods  Smile
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DeltaWings
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:26 am

Also, the 787 is aimed at the A332, with the 787-9 model.

Exactly, too many people refer to the 787-8 as the A332/A358 competitor, but actually it is the 789. The 789 will also replace the 767-400ER. It will be interesting to see, whether CO or DL will ever order it, to replace the 764.


The 788 is fit to replace the 767-300. I guess you could even use it as a 762/ 753 replacement, if Boeing won't offer a 787 shrink. The 788 is aimed at the A300 too.
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na
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:36 am

With the advent of the 787 the 767 is totally obsolete. It´ll also be a serious threat for the early 777 variants, the basic 772 (that no one is oredering anymore anyway) and the 772ER.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting N1120A (reply 15):
It will not have the same runway performance and will not fit into many of the gates because of the widebody.


Good enough performance for the secondary markets it will serve... i.e. SAN/SJC-LHR, MNL, LHR, for starters. No more gate requirement than a 777.

Quoting JDD1 (reply 14):
I wonder if Airbus(A350) and Boeing(787) are not getting carried away with this range issue.


There has been a need for longer range 200-250 seaters, but the economic model just wasn't there for it. Now it is. An example is SAN-LHR. If BA was able to run a 787 vs. the 777 on that route, they would still be running it. Their loads would represent a 90% load factor on a 787 with no Cargo penalty.
 
7e72004
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RE: Will The 787 Take Place Of Other Boeings?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:45 am

I hope that the 787 will look like all of the 7E7 pictures we have seen since it was introduced! I think they can make the dolphin tail work  Big grin
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!