hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:27 pm

Data released today from the European Airline Association:

Top European Airlines in terms of pax (2004):

1. Lufthansa 48mil

2. Air France 44mil

3. British Airways 35mil

4. Iberia 25mil

5. Alitalia 22mil

Top European Airlines in terms of load factor (2004)

1. KLM 81,8%

2. Lufthansa 78,2%

3. Virgin Atlantic 77,4%

4. Air France 76,1%

5. Iberia 75,2%

6. Swiss 75,0%

7. Icelandair 74,5%

8. British Airways 74,3%

9. TAP Portugal 74,2%

10. LOT 73,9%

Top European Airlines in term of increase in demand (2004)

1. bmi 23,3%

2. Finnair 23,0%

3. Icelandair 21,1%

Top European Airlines in terms of increase in capacity (2004)

1. CZA - Czech Airlines + 23,0%

2. bmi + 20,4%

3. Austrian + 19,1%

Comments and reactions? I was disappointed to see that BA is being left behind by both LH and AF.

http://www.aea.be
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:30 pm

This is the link with the complete data set for all European airlines member of the EAA:

http://www.aea.be/AEAWebsite/DataFiles/Pr05-007.pdf
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:13 pm

Too bad the major LCC are not included in this data sheet. I think it is also interesting to look at RPK's. In my opinion this is a more important statistic. If you look at RPK's, it is interesting to see that AZ, SK and IB score relatively low as compared to AF, BA, LH and KLM.

When you take into account the AF-KLM as one, they are the largest airline in terms of passengers by far. Almost 65 million!

[Edited 2005-02-16 14:14:30]
 
User avatar
PM
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:24 pm

"Left behind"? I know what you mean but size isn't everything (as they say...) BA these days is focusing on being profitable rather than being the biggest. In the long run it's the correct strategy.
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:26 pm

I am also disappointed to see that BA is being left behind by both LH and AF. However, when you consider that BA has competition on home ground from VS and bmi, does AF or LH have competition from other legacy carriers based in the same country?

Apart from LCCs and charter airlines I cannot immediately recall any other German or French FCC that could pose threats to LH or AF.

MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:02 pm

Bcal, for AF, I can give you their main competitor:
SCNF, with their TGV high speed trains.
AF does't fly to BRU anymore. The Thalis train is just faster and cheaper.
MRS , LYS and NTE have lost a lot of traffic at the arrival of the train
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Pe@rson
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RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:40 pm

I don't think the results particularly surprising. It actually adds to my theory that, in time, there will be three main airlines operating on a hub-and-spoke system in Europe LH, AF/KL and BA - with the point-to-point flights being operated by (at this time, an indefinite number of) low-cost, no-frills airlines.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:48 pm

I am quite surprised about those figures. I thought BA would come second. Do BA figures include franchise operations???
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:50 pm

there will be three main airlines operating on a hub-and-spoke system in Europe LH, AF/KL and BA

It makes sense.

Hub 1: FRA = LH

Hub 2: CDG = AF

Hub 3: LHR = BA + VS

Taking into account that there is a possibility of a potential merger IB+BA, creating Europe's biggest airline group.

Rgs,
 
KLMA330
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:01 am

Would a merger between IB and BA create an airline larger than KL/AF Group?
Just wondering  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:11 am

In terms of pax number:

1. AF+KL+AZ = 87mil (AF+KL = 65mil)

2. BA+IB = 61mil

3. LH = 48mil (LH+LX = 57.4mil)

Rgs,
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
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RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:37 am

Hardivv,

I agree that now, we must consider AFKL together, not AF alone, or not KL alone.. but why AF+KL+AZ ??? it doesn't make sense to add AZ.

Or in that case, you should consider LH+SK, or LH + OS ...

Note also that CDG is the HUB N°1, and not N°2, in terms of number of connections offered daily.
 
mozart
Posts: 2028
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:21 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:20 am

Hmm, you guys keep looking at the "number of pax" aspect of things. Now what REALLY surprised me is the INCREASE of 23% for bmi!!! How? Why? Does that include bmibaby?

Also, why so much more increase for AY and FI? AY I can see because of their operatoins to Asia where they leverage their geogrpahic position, but FI?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:26 am

I agree that now, we must consider AFKL together, not AF alone, or not KL alone.. but why AF+KL+AZ ??? it doesn't make sense to add AZ.

I added AZ to the AF+KL numbers so as to compare with a possible merger IB+BA. It is known that there have been talks of AZ getting together with AF+KL, and BA with IB, but nothing official or concrete as yet.

Here is the TOP 15 list, including AF+KL merged (in terms of pax, 2004)

1. AF/KL 64mil (44+20mil)
2. LH 48mil
3. BA 35mil
4. IB 25mil
5. AZ 22mil
6. SK 20mil
7. TK 11mil
8. LX 9mil
9. OS 7mil
10. TP, BD 6mil
12. AY, JK, OA 5mil
15. VS 4mil

Interesting that TP made its way up to the top 10; surprised to see VS at the bottom of the list!

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-16 17:38:41]
 
flylondon
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:37 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:07 am

If you draw up a list of the top ten in terms of RPKs it is much closer:
(Millions)

1. Lufthansa 109469
2. Air France 106830
3. British Airways 106463
4. KLM 63002
5. Iberia 45765
6. Alitalia 33860
7. Virgin Atlantic 30080
8. SAS 24022
9. Swiss 20532
10. Austrian 17529

And then take these figures to calculate average revenue kilometres per passenger:
(Kilometres per passenger)
1. Virgin Atlantic 6950
2. KLM 3102
3. British Airways 3003
4. Air France 2398
5. Austrian 2300
6. Lufthansa 2268
7. Swiss 2210
8. Iberia 1773
9. Alitalia 1520
10. 1179

No surprise that VS is on top given that they only fly long-haul but it seems that both BA and KLM fly a greater proportion of their passengers long-haul than AF and LH who carry more passengers in Europe. In the long-run this bodes better for BA and KLM as profit are made in long-haul and not inntra Europe. Plus when you consider that VS creams off a large proportion of the long haul traffic from BA things don't look so bad.


[Edited 2005-02-16 19:10:00]
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:15 am

Teva,
Thalys between Paris and Brussels is not a real competitor for AF : at least one railcar of some of the Thalys are reserved by AF.
You can also book a ticket to BRU with AF : it'll be a train ticket!
Flying is amazing!
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:04 am

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 10):
In terms of pax number:

1. AF+KL+AZ = 87mil (AF+KL = 65mil)

2. BA+IB = 61mil

3. LH = 48mil (LH+LX = 57.4mil)


Why do you take LH and LX together? At the moment they have absolutely no links, on the contrary they are competitors. Why don't you take SK and OS to the LH numbers, this would make sense.

[Edited 2005-02-16 20:09:17]
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting Teva (reply 5):
Bcal, for AF, I can give you their main competitor:


Yes, but unlike the competition between BA and VS, you can't take the TGV from PAR to NRT or JFK. Similarly, you can't take VS from LHR to EDI, however they do have trains. At the end of the day, domestic flights are small potatoes compared to long-haul where BA and VS compete.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH And AF Dominate Europe

Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:19 pm

it seems that both BA and KLM fly a greater proportion of their passengers long-haul than AF and LH who carry more passengers in Europe. In the long-run this bodes better for BA and KLM as profit are made in long-haul and not inntra Europe

I'm not sure AF and LH are not stronger than BA in long-haul flights. In addition, it shows that, different from BA, LH and AF managed to maintain their intra-European dominance. BA's fall in the intra-European market may just preclude its decline in the intercontinental market.

It also means that BA needs to implement new business management decisions, including the go-ahead to merge with another European airline: IB.

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-02-22 15:20:54]

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