juventus
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A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:39 pm

Some A340 and A330 orders that never materialised. Does anybody know why these airlines cancelled their orders. TWA and AOM cancelled their orders years before their demise.

EVA AIR- A340-600
Ethiopian- A340-300
Continental- A330-200 and A340-300
Northwest- A340-300
TWA- A330-200
ALL Nippon (ANA)- A340-300
AOM- A340-300

source (Airlife's Airliners:16)
 
tripple7
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:41 pm

NWA did not really cancel their orders, but transferred it to an A332 and A333 order.
 
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PM
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:49 pm

From memory, I think the EVA planes were 340-500s and, while I know that they evaluated it, CO never actually ordered A330s, did they? I wasn't even aware that they'd come that close to A340s.

But cancellations are nothing new. Transbrasil, SAA and Gulf (again, from memory) had 777s on order but cancelled them. SIA ordered MD-11s and then pulled out.

Some of this may be to do with how we define an 'order'. Backing out of a real order can be expensive and difficult. Signing an MOU to buy but then deciding not to is much easier (and cheaper). Putting down deposits (as Virgin did on 777s) and then writing that off (or converting the deposit to another type from the same manufacturer) is another possibility.

I guess I'm saying that I wonder how many of your examples (and mine) were 'real' orders as opposed to either airline or manufacturer (or both) talking up less binding options and MOUs.
 
dkny
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:56 pm

ET cancelled their lease on the 340-300 right before delivery. it was in ET colours and all, something with they mechanics not accepting the aircraft they way it was.
 
juventus
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:45 am

my guess was that some of them (ANA, and CO) opted for the 777. But its just a guess.
 
Arcano
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:49 am

AR was announced as the launch constumer for the 346.

Why never materialised? Because it's AR/Marsans

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LVZXV
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RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:35 am

Que tal Arcano?

2 things:

  • AR was only going to be the launch customer for the new A340 in the American continent, as far as I remember. I think VS and CX had their orders filed a bit before 1999, but if this isn't the case, then it's all the more sad that the deal didn't work out for AR. Some sources said that AR's first A346 would arrive in 2002, in which case they could have beaten VS, but more likely, the A346s would have arrived between 2004 and 2008.


  • And the main reason the deal never materialised was quite simply due to the economic crash and the devaluation; although Marsans theoretically operate with Spanish capital, ever since the take-over in 2001, there was no way they were going to be able to commit the necessary funds for 6 new A340-600s, although they have cleverly left the order as "indefinitely postponed" rather than officially cancelled.


  • AR also cancelled the acquisition of 2 A340-300s in 1999/2000 (F-OHPL/M), though I'm not so sure of the reasons for this.

    Saludos de nuevo!

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    Rj111
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:19 pm

    NW ordered 20 A340-200 (IIRC) but pulled out after the PW superfan fiasco.

    They later chose GE for their A320 fleet out of spite.

    And no prizes for guessing which CEO put the final nail in the coffin for CO's order?
     
    ha763
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:18 pm

    Actually, I believe CO dropped their Airbus order when they went into bankruptcy protection in the early 1990's allowing CO to do so without penalty. I also believe that NW's orders actually stayed on the Airbus books, but were allowed to be cancelled as they ordered the A330s.
     
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:54 pm

    Quoting PM (reply 2):
    CO never actually ordered A330s, did they? I wasn't even aware that they'd come that close to A340s.

    CO ordered the A340 but cancelled later on, I think before the first A340 was going to be delivered and went for the B777 instead. There are some CO A343 models around.
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    alexchao
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:41 pm

    Well, obviously EVA Air chose the 777-300ER and -200LR over the A340-500. But, they did choose the A330-200 for their short- to medium-range destinations.
     
    centrair
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:27 pm

    What would NW have done with the A343? It is in the pilot contract, isn't it?
    Would it have replaced some 747s?

    Isn't the 777 also in the NW pilot contract?
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    ktachiya
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:59 pm

    as for the NH A340-300, they were evaluating the ac. The problem is, the rival T7 beat the game. I think the T7 was a better option in the end. All Nippon, Japan Airlines, and Japan Airsystem all ordered the aircraft and cut costs by cooperating with each other in maintenance.

    Indeed the A340 series never came to BA. But they have A330-200's now doing the NRT run.
    Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
     
    juventus
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:05 pm

    I read on a CIA book, that Saudi Arabian had actually ordered more than 50 Airbuses. Mr. Clinton got on Air Force One, flew to Saudi Arabia, and persuaded the airline to change the order to Boeing aircraft. The book is Sleeping with the devil.
     
    PHX Flyer
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:47 pm

    TWA ordered 10 A330-300, not the -200. IIRC, the original order was for 20 frames plus 20 options. The type was supposed to replace the aging B747-100 fleet. The plan never came to fruition because of the drastic decline in transatlantic traffic around this time as a result of the Lockerbie bombing and the war in the Gulf.
     
    Flying-Tiger
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:36 am

    @Juventus: The version we have over here is a bit different. Both Airbus and Boeing were heavily competing for this deal, however the CIA/NSA fished every fax from Airbus to Boeing. Boeing was told the prices Airbus was offering and in this case was always able to be a tad lower than Airbus´ offer.

    CO had 10 A330-300 and 10 A340-300 on order, later changed ot to 13/7 (?) before completely cancelling it.

    NH had 5 A340-300s in the books for years, but at one point decided to cancel it. No idea why they ordered them in first place.

    NW apparently has an interesting deal with Airbus: the old order stayed in the book and after every delivery of an 330-200/300 of the new order, one frame is canceled of the old order. Suppose it has to do with the old framework and probably the deposits paid for the old order. However, as of today NW already has more A330-200/300 on order than the old order ever had.
    Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
     
    aviationmaster
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:43 am

    Swissair ordered a couple of Airbus A340-600s (not sure of the number, I think they had ordered 9) which were never delivered due to their disappearance in 2001. If I'm correct they are now being operated by Iberia.
     
    Flying-Tiger
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:06 am

    not entirely, 6 are now with South African Airways, 3 are with Iberia IIRC.
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    gigneil
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised.

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:11 am

    Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
    EVA AIR- A340-600


    This order became A330s.

    Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
    Continental- A330-200 and A340-300


    Cancelled in bankruptcy.

    Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
    Northwest- A340-300


    Delayed due to horrible financials, then became one of the largest single fleets of A330s in the world.

    Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
    TWA- A330-200


    Bankruptcy.

    N
     
    juventus
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    RE: A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:55 am

    An A330 in TWA colors would have been a nice thing to see. Was TWA thinking about replacing the L1011s or 767s with the A330.