singaporegirl
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SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:09 am

http://www.straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/world/story/0,5562,301168,00.html?

[Edited 2005-02-17 21:12:44]
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
LordHowe
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:14 am

Is this wishfull thinking, a prayer or what? SIA who was the first to start 18 hours nonstop services. I really do understand if the crew wishes SIA not to be the market for LR planes.

Regards,
LordHowe
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scbriml
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:54 am

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:43 am

...now how about posting the highlights for those who don't wanna register with some lame site for a 1time-only patronage?  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:12 am

Ruh roh....so if SQ is not buying the 772LR anytime soon...who is?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Skyguy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:24 am

PK is.

First 772LR will be delivered to them and deployed on the Houston-Karachi route.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
PVG
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:52 pm

Is it me, or do I notice a slight anti-Boeing tinge in the SQ comments lately. "They would rather abuse the 380 than buy new 747" "787 not economical enough" now this comment just days after the 777-200LR is introduced?

Something seems to be wrong with this relationship, or maybe they are negotiating in public. Hope it's the latter.
 
atmx2000
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:00 pm

Well they did just order a bunch of 773ERs. There is only so much SG can buy. It's better for them to be careful, because they don't know how the market is going to develop in the next few decades.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
SNATH
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:16 pm

Quoting Singaporegirl (reply 4):
Mr Forshaw said: 'We're not currently in the market for long-range aircraft, but we're sure when we are, Boeing will put their views to us about its suitability for operations.

It'll come down to what we're looking for and what financial criteria the manufacturers offer us.'


I read the above as "We are currently not iterested in acquiring new long-range aircraft, however it's likely that in the future we will be looking at the B772LR. Boeing please please please do us a really good deal." Anyone else?

Tony
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Spike
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:56 pm

As SQ already have the 777 200 and 300, why would they need the 200LR? Its just the same plane with 50 less seats. Nothing new here. The A380 and 747X is.
 
PyroGX41487
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:26 pm

WOO! I'm glad the speculated B772LR customer won't pull another A340-300!!!
 
greaser
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:36 pm

Boeing please please please do us a really good deal." Anyone else?
What i thought from the start.

Its just the same plane with 50 less seats.
Where have you been since forever??
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1959053/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1962693/
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PyroGX41487
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:45 pm

This is still great news for Airbus that their cheaper-to-buy plane isn't going the way of the A340-300 anytime soon. Should put all the A340-500 bashers on this forum into a tizzy Big grin


Long live the A345!
 
A319114
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:08 pm

Quoting Greaser (reply 13):
Boeing please please please do us a really good deal." Anyone else?
What i thought from the start.


Or you just don't want to believe it...
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
SNATH
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting A319114 (reply 15):
Or you just don't want to believe it...


Please read reply #4 and tell me where in it it says that SQ will never ever ever consider the B777-200LR. On the contrary, the phrase:

but we're sure when we are, Boeing will put their views to us about its suitability for operations.

reads to me as if they are leaving the door open for Boeing.

One thing seems sure: SQ will not be buying the B777-200LR any time soon. But don't discount an order some time in the future...

Tony

PS Also notice that it says when we are..., not if we are....

[Edited 2005-02-18 15:14:51]
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leelaw
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:17 pm

Quoting SNATH (reply 10):
I read the above as "We are currently not iterested in acquiring new long-range aircraft, however it's likely that in the future we will be looking at the B772LR. Boeing please please please do us a really good deal." Anyone else?


SQ always keeps its options open. However, parsing Mr. Forshaw's words to divine serious interest in a future order is a tricky business indeed; hardly a solid first step towards selling 500 772LRs over the next twenty years.

What I find truly interesting about the article is that its "spin" is real concern about the negative impact of ultra long range aircraft in general upon the paradigm of the Changi hub.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:55 am

when i first saw this article, i was quite shocked actually. first, we're not getting the 787s, no 747advs (well i wasn't surprised at all about that one), then no 777lrs either (some pax request f class cabin on our sin/lax & sin/ewr legs on our 345s). a lot of people here on a.net, assumed that it was a matter of 'when' not 'if' sq is going to order the 772lr. it's an interesting development indeed.
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RayChuang
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:05 am

I don't think SQ will buy the 777-200LR.

The reason is simple: Singapore's geographic location does not warrant the need for such a plane. The 777-300ER can easily reach most of Europe from SIN, and is easily within range of a SIN-SYD flight. Besides, SQ's longest routes are already well-covered by the A340-500 anyway.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:34 am

"SQ really needs and wants this plane in their fleet and will lead the way to market acceptance."

I think SQ DOES need AND want this plane...but not at the current price.

"Besides, SQ's longest routes are already well-covered by the A340-500 anyway.
"

It is without question that the 772LR would cover it far better than the 345--and it would do it WITH first class AND a reasonable cargo payload. I'm almost positive that the added value of first class and extra cargo does not outweigh the added expense of a 77-200LR fleet replacement right now.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
airbazar
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:48 am

The A345 and First Class are not mutually exclusive. It just so happens that SQ chose not to have First Class on the A345's. If anything, not having first class adds weight, 'cause you have more seats and more luggage to carry.
A bunch of their 777's also don't have First Class. In either case it's not an aircraft issue, it's a business choice.
 
CRJ900
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:48 am

I think SQ is still smarting from being launch customer for the A345, and having to deal with introductory teething problems.

Therefore they'll now let PIA and EVA have all the hassles and bugs to work out on the 772LR, and then when the aircraft is considered mature (and have lived up to the HUGE expectations) then SQ will order some.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
DIA
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:56 am

Regarding customers for the 777LR:

"The first 777-200LR Worldliner is to be delivered to Pakistan International Airlines in January 2006. EVA Airways is also a launch customer." -Boeing
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
Gnomon
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:02 am

Am I correct in interpreting this as an unequivocal indication that SQ will NOT be getting rid of the A345s, per earlier discussions on A.net?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:37 am

"In either case it's not an aircraft issue, it's a business choice"

It WAS an aircraft issue; SQ's first class seats were too heavy for the aircraft and would have infringed on the payload and/or range capabilities. Do you honestly think SQ chose not to put its premier service on its premier routes which are the longest in the world??
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AeroWesty
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting Gnomon (reply 23):
Am I correct in interpreting this as an unequivocal indication that ...


The only thing with 100% conviction you can interpret from the above is that people have a Post Message button.  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
col
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:52 am

Would not be surprised to see some of those 773ER options being 772LR in a few years. It will be a shame for the PAX to change out the 345, by the 777, so much more quiet, but economics may be the dictator.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting Gnomon (reply 23):
Am I correct in interpreting this as an unequivocal indication that SQ will NOT be getting rid of the A345s

Nope. Just that a replacement or matching order isn't imminent.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
teamregal
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (reply 4):
"SIA not in the market for long-range planes"


Singaporegirl, are you flight crew for the A345? and if so what do you think of the aircraft?
You would dare to challenge me? .........Insanity!
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:42 am

yes, i'm a cabin crew for the 345s. generally i like the aircraft very much, definitely a better aeroplane compared to our old 343s. my favourite thing about the 345 is that the cabin is sooo quiet, which is a very nice thing when you're doing a long distance flying. i wrote a while back on a.net about cabin crew's 'bunk times' on these long haul flights. usually i can't really sleep onboard because we (the girls at least) have to sleep on our stomach or side on the bunk during rest time. the reason is because girls with long hair must put up our hair in a bun (it's part of our uniform/grooming guidelines), therefore it's easier to keep it neat by not sleeping on our back, than to do your hair all over again onboard (which is kind of difficult thing to do onboard). since i can't really sleep on my tummy/side, the quietness of the cabin helps me sleep a little easier during my bunk breaks. on top of that we only have about a week to complete the round trip legs, which means a lot of super long distance traveling within a short period of time, and with minimum layover times on the ground as well, therefore being able to rest onboard is highly appreciated by us cabin crew. speaking of sleeping, i have to go night night now. thanks again for participating on my thread!
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
A319114
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (reply 19):
It is without question that the 772LR would cover it far better than the 345--and it would do it WITH first class AND a reasonable cargo payload. I'm almost positive that the added value of first class and extra cargo does not outweigh the added expense of a 77-200LR fleet replacement right now.


Well yes that may be partly correct but that doesn't justify replacing relatively very new planes by an other, even more expensive airplane.
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting A319114 (reply 30):
Well yes that may be partly correct but that doesn't justify replacing relatively very new planes by an other, even more expensive airplane.

(Recent) history tells a completely different story...
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
aaflt1871
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:07 am

I really feel Boeing came to SQ with an offer, not to SQ's liking, maybe they refused to take the A345's in trade as they did with the A343's, or maybe it was the price was too high. Either way, Boeing refused to budge feeling they had SQ's back to the wall with a new aircraft that out performs the A345 in all aspects from cargo, range, and being able to offer 3 classes of service for which the A345 can only offer 2 classes of service. With that, I feel Boeing thought that with all of the positives the 772LR brings to the table, they could muscle SQ into a deal. So in return, SQ puts out a press release stating what they put in the above article, and once again putting the ball back in Boeing's court to make the next move. SQ knows how to play the game, and Boeing will give in to their demands, whatever they may be.
Where did everybody go?
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting A319114 (reply 30):
but that doesn't justify replacing relatively very new planes by an other, even more expensive airplane.


I'm not sure I understand your point...isn't that exactly what MaverickM11 said?
 Confused
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avek00
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:12 am

HA-ha!

You're trying so hard to downplay the fact that you have egg on your face right now ConcordeBoy - you practically swore that SQ would be announcing an order for the planes the moment it rolled-out - heck, I was halfway expecting the WorldlyLiner to roll out with SQ colors given your "convictions". I look forward to stepping on the 345 for EWR-SIN in two weeks while you make your plans to ride on PIA's 772LR JFK-KHI (and if you're lucky to survive your journey to Pakistan, KHI-JFK).
Live life to the fullest.
 
M27
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:28 am

". SQ knows how to play the game, and Boeing will give in to their demands, whatever they may be."

Disagree with that part. Boeing has as much time as SQ does on this one.
 
SNATH
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Aaflt1871 (reply 32):
and Boeing will give in to their demands, whatever they may be.


Oh, yes. Boeing will do everything possible to get this deal. Selling a product is one thing. Selling it to replace your competitor's product, in such a public deal, is another. There's no better advertising than that.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Avek00 (reply 34):
you practically swore that SQ would be announcing an order for the planes the moment it rolled-out

I never once said that, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.  Yeah sure

What I did say is that it's only a matter of "when" not "if" SQ orders the aircraft, and I stand by said statement.

[Edited 2005-02-18 20:34:04]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Aaflt1871 (reply 32):
I really feel Boeing came to SQ with an offer, not to SQ's liking


LOL, did anyone read the article?

Quoting the article: "He said SIA was aware of the development of the 777-200LR, but did not assess it."

Does "did not assess it" not mean they didn't even look at it, or does the word "assess" somehow have multiple meanings when it comes solely to Singapore Airlines?

I'm quite sure they will assess it at some point, even if it's not on the schedule armchair CEOs would have otherwise.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (reply 37):
What I did say is that it's only a matter of "when" not "if" SQ orders the aircraft, and I stand by said statement.



Yet another ostensibly pithy platituide to rationalize disappointing historical sales results and disquieting sales prospects. Live in hope, die in despair.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
airbazar
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:27 am

(Recent) history tells a completely different story...

No it doesn't. One thing is SQ replacing its own planes. Another completely different thing is Boeing replacing SQ's planes.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting SNATH (reply 36):
Oh, yes. Boeing will do everything possible to get this deal. Selling a product is one thing. Selling it to replace your competitor's product, in such a public deal, is another. There's no better advertising than that


My point exactly. What better for Boeing to sell their Long Range aircraft to an Airbus customer. And considering the amount of 777's they operate, as ConcordeBoy said, it is only a matter of when, not if. You will see a 772LR in SQ colors!
Where did everybody go?
 
LordHowe
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:49 am

Singaporegirl,

I really do admire you and your collegues! You never look tired and you allways seem to be happy serving all your passengers. That's great! Now, having read your comments about the rest during your super long haul flights, I respect you even more! - Really, sleeping on your tummy even if it's not your natural way of sleeping. - Keep up with the very nice work - actually attitude! I am a SQ fan and I'll be one forever! I do not think that I'll ever be able to take any of your 18 hour flights - they simply are too much! You are the best! Thanks for being there for us!

Regards,
LordHowe
Lord Howe Island - The Last Paradise
 
docpepz
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:17 pm

Yes Singaporegirl I thought I'd thank you for posting this thread! I've flown in the past half a year to Beijing, KL, Jakarta, Adelaide, Bangkok in Y and Christchurch in J (from Singapore) on SQ and I am just amazed at the service. I mean this is a time where morale is supposed to be low etc etc etc. How on earth do all of you manage to keep smiling and look so happy about serving?!

Just flew SQ219 , a daytime flight to Sydney yesterday. Service was exceptional. I notice that Singapore Slings are now the norm on Y class. Singapore-Bangkok 2 weeks ago on SQ (for a 1h50min flight) and the crew were just out of this world. There was this steward who was so genuine and made at least 20 Singapore Slings in between serving a full dinner on that short flight. And he made really good ones too! A Singapore Sling costs S$16 (US$10) in The Raffles in Singapore. Considering fares to Bangkok are as low as S$128 (US$90) these days return, if you drink the right number of Singapore Slings on board SQ to BKK you can recoup the cost of your ticket!

Sorry for digressing. Regarding the original topic I have heard mixed reactions from various SQ peope I know but I wouldn't go so far as to say that SIA didn't assess the 772 LR at all - They did and probably still are!
 
jacobin777
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting Avek00 (reply 34):
I look forward to stepping on the 345 for EWR-SIN in two weeks while you make your plans to ride on PIA's 772LR JFK-KHI (and if you're lucky to survive your journey to Pakistan, KHI-JFK).



what kind of asinine, rubbish, and vacuous flaming comment was that?

Do you have ANY clue about PK and Pakistan?

Too bad there isn't a "disrespected" users list.
"Up the Irons!"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 44):
what kind of asinine, rubbish, and vacuous flaming comment was that?

One aimed solely as a swipe at me for my love for the 777 family vis-a-vis my disdain for Arab/Islamic/MidEastern cultures in general.

Nothing more, nothing less, take a puff, pass, and chill  Smile
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
VS11
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:56 am

It is SQ's strategy to operate young aircraft, average age around 5 years so it is very likely that in the not too distant future they will be replacing any of their aircraft types so they will definitely will look into B772LR - whether they will buy it - no one knows.

As capital gains in Singapore are not taxed, SQ can sell their young aircraft and get good deals for them, accordingly it is not so expensive for SQ to keep replacing their fleet with younger planes. So it should not come as a surpise to you that
1. SQ replaces its aircraft fairly often, particularly with competing brands. Have you wondered why they have so many types in their fleet?
2. SQ did not jump to buy the 772LR straightaway. Although SQ do appear to buy the latest that comes out from both Airbus and Boeing, airlines and businesses in general invest where and when they can achieve higher return on investment (ROI) as opposed to when the latest technology becomes available.

Regards,
VS11
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:05 am

He said SIA was aware of the development of the 777-200LR, but did not assess it.

Yeah right. What widebody does SIA NOT assess? If this press release is a negotiating tactic, it is surprising because I don't recall them ever taking any non-union negotation this public.
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting VS11 (reply 46):
As capital gains in Singapore are not taxed


Interesting. Are depreciating assets like used airplanes typically sold for more than their adjusted tax basis (purchase price less accumulated depreciation) where a capital gains tax would become a consideration?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Ex_SQer (reply 47):
Yeah right. What widebody does SIA NOT assess?

...um, exactly what is there for them to tangible assess at this point?  Nuts
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Not In The Market For Long-range Planes

Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (reply 49):
...um, exactly what is there for them to tangible assess at this point?


Please define "tangible assess?"
Lex Ancilla Justitiae

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