redngold
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Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:24 am

From The Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH), Thursday, Feb. 17, 2005:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...sf?/base/news/1108636347278380.xml

This man was headed to Cleveland for surgery to implant a stimulating device to help him breathe without a ventilator. The pilot kicked him off the plane for as-of-yet unspecified reasons.

Someone's got a whole lot of explaining to do...
Up, up and away!
 
Spike
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:26 am

The pilot made a decision> wait for the details b4 you post....
 
redngold
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:31 am

Umm... Spike, did I not say that already...?

Still needs to explain things!
Up, up and away!
 
OB1504
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:38 am

That's just wrong. Of course, I don't know all of the details yet, but if it really is as it seems its another reason for me not to like USAirways.
 
lobster
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:40 am

I'm thinking the pilot and F/A have never heard of the Americans With Disabilities Act. I'm sure that it covers this guy. Besides, if its company "policy" why didn't the person who checked him in or the gate agent know about it? I mean, come on!!
 
doug_or
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:50 am

Wait for the details on this one. The air carrier access act outlines the rights AND responsibilities of disabled pax. Its been over a year since I've dealt with it, but it might have been possible that the passenger failed to bring neccesary support equipment or personel. Also possible that it was illgeal both ways. We had some situations with disabled passengers where the only options were to break the ACA or the FARs. Captain chose the former.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
NorskMan
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:09 am

The story seems to talk more about the guy's condition rather then the incident in question. I'm sure the pilot had his reasons for refusing him the flight. If he kicked him off for no reason, surely his career is over. So we'll need to wait for more details. Keep us posted.
yeah i know
 
goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:53 am

Sure not going to encourage a lot of people to fly US Airways out of Cleveland. That story was on the front page of the Plain Dealer. Perhaps the pilot thought that the vent relied on compressed oxygen canisters. In any event, details should have been given if they weren't. To me, it sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
jc2354
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:43 am

I agree, lets wait until the pilot "talks".

But, in the meantime, as the passenger had a spinal injury, he might have been unable to sit or hold himself upright. This situation could cause more injuries to the passenger, in case of turbulence, sudden braking, etc.

Also, as he was travelling with a ventilator, perhaps it could not be properly stowed or secured on this particular aircraft.
If not now, then when?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:53 am

Could it be that there wasn't the proper arrangements made with US in sufficient time to make sure the aircraft and handling of him on it were properly set up, including notifying the Captain in timely fashion of this special needs pax and the oxygen. O2 rules are very strict and the captain may have determined all of the necessary clearances were not followed. Maybe (cynicaly) the captain didn't want a pax whom would need hightened attention or care that would delay his flight or arrival of the flight at it's destination. I do agree that this makes US look very bad.
 
iluv747400
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:53 am

Could it be that the pilot was concerned that, in the event of an emergency, the man would be unable to evacuate the airplane? I realize the article said the pilot made his decision after seeing the ventilator (which also made me think of compressed oxygen canisters), but the article was definitely short on facts/explanation.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:09 am

With such a major injury, usually patients are transported via medivac. Come to think of it, I have never observed a serious medical patient on a commercial flight. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it really is the captains final decision. I seriously doubt a pilot would discriminate someone with a disability, unless it could interfere with the cabin crew and safety. Especially the safety of the passenger with the disability.

Sounds like an unfortunate set of circumstances, but I am sure there is much more to the story than it told.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:17 am

Does anyboody know what city he was coming from. If it wasn't CLT, the plane wouldn't have been mainline.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:25 am

SOAC-I'm assuming his routing was TPA-CLT-CLE
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:29 am

If he kicked him off for no reason, surely his career is over.

Not gonna happen....we have unions for that Big grin

I'd bet it had alot to do with oxygen and evacuation regs.....disabled people and their equipment don't travel too lightly!

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 11):
With such a major injury, usually patients are transported via medivac.


I'd hesitate to say he had a "major injury." Yes he did, but that injury was years ago. A medivac would certainly be appropriate if the injury just recently happened, but this was not the case. I attend class with a quadriplegic who is on a ventilator. He is completely medically stable. Yeah, he needs help and special devices to eat and to use the bathroom, but that does not mean he is eminent danger of dying.


Quoting LTBEWR (reply 9):
O2 rules are very strict and the captain may have determined all of the necessary clearances were not followed.


Ventilators do not necessarily require oxygen. Many operate of regular room air. The fact that it mentioned that extra batteries were brought but not extra O2 cans indicated that this was the case. As I said earlier, maybe the captain WRONGLY concluded that their was O2 canisters present, but the kid didn't necessarily have them with him. Remember, he was headed for surgery that would allow him to breath ON HIS OWN, meaning he didn't require oxygen so he probably didn't have a vent with O2 cans.

Quoting F9Animal (reply 11):
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it really is the captains final decision.


That is absolutely true. But that doesn't make it right. A captain could decide to throw every Arab of his flights, but that would clearly be wrong.

Quoting LTBEWR (reply 9):
Maybe (cynicaly) the captain didn't want a pax whom would need hightened attention or care that would delay his flight or arrival of the flight at it's destination.


Wouldn't the opposite be true? With a person on a ventilator headed for surgery, a smart captain might see about getting a "lifeguard" designation so he got priority.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
NIKV69
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:44 am

I agree with DeltaGuy, I get the feeling this had to do with O2 or something. Lets get some facts. I doubt this pilot's career is over by any means.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:53 am

but it might have been possible that the passenger failed to bring neccesary support equipment or personel..

After he's travelled this way time and time again like this, as the story says? Unlikely. US screwed up-why are some on here just trying to apoligize for them? They screwed up either by letting this man go all the way, for 3 hours, thorugh check-in, and waiting to fly, letting him on the plane, and THEN telling him he couldn't go. Whther the captain was right or wrong, US simply dropped the ball on this one.

Could it be that there wasn't the proper arrangements made with US in sufficient time to make sure the aircraft and handling of him on it were properly set up, including notifying the Captain in timely fashion of this special needs pax and the oxygen

Says he was there 3 hours early? How much time is needed from the time he starts check-in to notify those who need to know? A day? US had more than enough time before he boarded to figure out if he belonged on board or not.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:56 am

The pilots/flight attendants/gate agents did not make any decision.

Correctly, US contacted MedLink, who determined that the passenger was unfit to fly.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:00 am

The pilots/flight attendants/gate agents did not make any decision.

Correctly, US contacted MedLink, who determined that the passenger was unfit to fly.


It took 3 hours, AFTER the pax was ONBOARD, to decide to contact MedLink? Doesn't that sound like a SNAFU to you? It does to me. If US had been on the ball, either the man would never have gotten onboard, after being in the airport for 3 hours, or they would have told him when checking in that things were not in order.

Either way, US didn't do right by this person.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:01 am

Hey, I agree that it seems that US could have done a better job here.

But the fact remains that the passenger was correctly not permitted to fly.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 19):
It took 3 hours, AFTER the pax was ONBOARD, to decide to contact MedLink?


Maybe it took 3 hours to find a medical consultant that would give them the answer they wanted...

In any event, wouldn't the guy's doctor, who knew he would fly to Cleveland have told him he was unfit to fly?
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
A330323X
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:12 am

In any event, wouldn't the guy's doctor, who knew he would fly to Cleveland have told him he was unfit to fly?

He might have been fit to fly, just not on US.

Per the US Airways contract of carriage:

III. Acceptance of Customers
Refusal to Transport

US Airways may refuse to transport, or may remove from any flight, any customer for the following reasons:

*A customer who requires constant oxygen or other life support equipment (except a customer meeting US Airways' special procedures for in-flight oxygen).

NOTE: US AIRWAYS IS NOT LIABLE FOR ITS REFUSAL TO TRANSPORT ANY CUSTOMER OR FOR ITS REMOVAL OF ANY CUSTOMER IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ABOVE PARAGRAPHS, BUT US AIRWAYS WILL PROVIDE THE APPLICABLE INVOLUNTARY REFUND.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:13 am

But the fact remains that the passenger was correctly not permitted to fly.

If he were correctly not permitted to fly, he wouldn't have spent 3 hours after US checked him in to be told he can't go. The whole situation was incorrect, and US has egg on it's face because of it.

Maybe it took 3 hours to find a medical consultant that would give them the answer they wanted..

Oh, please. And in that time, US let him head down to the gate, board the aircraft, and be ready to go? Not likely.

CO uses MEDLink for onboard oxygen customers, and it doesn't take 3 hours to get in touch with them. If it took them 3 hours to do so, then the incompetience rises to another level.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
USrampleadSTL
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:33 am

I've run into many scenarios where the ticketing agent and the gate agent do not consistently apply company policy either because they don't notice a problem or they don't know the rules, which is tragic, but probably the reason why it took so long to come to a decision about the passenger. Barring misunderstanding of the federal laws and extensive internal guidelines that govern the transportation of disabled passengers, I have utmost faith that the crew made the appropriate decision.
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Falcon84
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:36 am

I have utmost faith that the crew made the appropriate decision.

Fine, let's assume the crew made the right decison. I'm not willing to buy that yet, but let's assume that? Again, why did it take until the man boarded, 3 HOURS after getting to the airport, for US to figure all this out? Any way you slice it, they screwed up. They either screwed up in letting the guy on in the first place, and taking 3 hours to figure things out, or they screwed up in taking him off at all.

Either way, US failed in taking proper care of a customer.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Accidentally
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:40 am

As a quadrplegic with a few flawless and pleasant recent flights on USAirways, I'll go ahead and say something is missing from this story.
Indianapolis, IN
 
skidmarks
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:56 am

Have to agree with Accidentally - something is missing here from the reported facts. I would suggest that the captain was made aware of some fact we are not being notified of that he based his decision on.

Be very wary of news items that purport to be the be-all and end-all of the subject. There has to be more to it than we know. US Airways are a business that relies on a good customer base. You are gonna lose that with this sort of publicity.

lets wait until we know what happened before making a udgement. It will be made public soon I bet.

Cheers

Andy
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goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:04 am

Falcon,

I was attempting to be sarcastic.


Who called Medlink anyway? Was it someone who was able to competently and accurately describe the medical situation? Perhaps Medlink provided the recommendation based on flawed information provided by US Airways.

It does sound like they followed through on their contact of carriage. But again that does not make it right. All the more reason US Airways should go down.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
nucsh
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 19):

It took 3 hours, AFTER the pax was ONBOARD, to decide to contact MedLink? Doesn't that sound like a SNAFU to you?



He wasn't on the PLANE for 3 hours, he arrived at the airport 3 hours in advance. Jeez, read more carefully next time.
If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:24 am

The Captain's decision is final. No correspondance will be entered into.

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 30):
All the more reason US Airways should go down.

that's rubbish. US Airways as a whole is not at fault, it was a single captain who made the decision, not US Airways. Besides all airlines have clauses in their carriage contracts that mean they can offload whoever they please, and that isn't a reason for them to go down. If anyone is accountable it the captain, as he would have been if the passenger had put the others at risk in an emergency by requiring the FAs help him rather than the other passengers.
Personally I would have done the same. He may not have been following 'company policy' per se but he made a quick judgement based on his observations that he thought the passenger could jeopardise the safety of the other souls onboard, which he is responsible for the safe carriage of. End of story.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:37 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (reply 32):
Besides all airlines have clauses in their carriage contracts that mean they can offload whoever they please


Yeah, they have that to cover their asses. Just because it's in the contract of carriage does not make it the right thing to do. I highly doubt the sprit of the rule was to say, "Ha ha, now we don't have to fly around disabled people." Its there for two reasons, so passengers who legitimately are too sick to fly, like someone carrying bottled oxygen or someone who has tuberculosis. Second, it is there so when some captain makes a stupid move like this, and this guy invariably sues US Airways, they have something to go to court with. Like I said, according to many carriage contracts, an Arab could be kicked off a flight, or a Jew could be thrown off a flight operated by an Arab carrier. Would that be the right thing to do? The guy may have been a quadriplegic, but that does not mean he was knocking on death's door. Yeah, it was the captains decision, and I certainly don't think US was negligent to the point the guy should sue, but he should get more compensation than a refund for something that most find blatantly wrong.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:23 am

Falcon,

I was attempting to be sarcastic


My apologies, then. Maybe, though, you should have put something in to make it seem sarcastic. Some old dogs like me don't always get the hint.  Smile

He wasn't on the PLANE for 3 hours

Thanks for the info, Sherlock. I'm aware of that. No kidding. He was put on the plane, 3 hours after he checked in, and in that amount of time, no one figured out if he should be on or not? That's poor internal communication, and poor customer service.

Jeez, read more carefully next time.

Jeez, why don't YOU read everything I've written on here, and maybe YOU could figure out that you screwed up in your post, pal. Get a clue, friend.

that's rubbish. US Airways as a whole is not at fault, it was a single captain who made the decision, not US Airways.

When I'm at work, I am CO to many of the customers. This Captian, to this employee, IS USAirways. So you are not correct. We represent our respective companies to the public, and when something like this happens, they won't say it's "the captain's fault", they'll say "It's USAirways fault". So, in a sense, from the customer's standpoint, you're dead wrong.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
akelley728
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:21 pm

He finally made it to Cleveland in a private jet:

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d...rticle?AID=/20050215/APN/502151118
 
cha747
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:38 pm

According to the airline, flight personnel followed procedures developed to comply with the Air Carrier Access Act, including contacting medical consultants before ordering Barrett off.

I think that a few things happened here. First, a ventilator (or vent) is by most medical people considered to be "critical care" equipment (whether it is connected to room air or an oxygen source). Just like most people can't tell (and don't care to tell) the difference between an A320 and A321 (for example), most people wouldn't know that a vent is critical care equipment. With few exceptions, patients who are on ventilators in most hospitals have to be in an ICU setting and away from the rest of the crowd who are in the hospital breathing on their own. Some of the portable ventilators these days are really no larger than laptop computers (sounds to me like his was larger). So I'm not surprised that the CSA's at TPA weren't alarmed about this and let this guys check-in with a vent....did you know that vented patients are usually in the ICU before reading this?

Then, once on board, it sounds like the FA and the pilot's mental alarm bells began to sound. Perhaps this "nurse" wasn't critical care certified as policy may (or may not...I don't know) dictate? Perhaps the ventilator was not FAA approved? Perhaps the ventilator was too noisy? Perhaps the vent couldn't be strapped-down securely? Perhaps the pilot didn't want to chance a vent failure where he'd have to divert for medical reasons?

The fact remains that the captain is the captain and they make the final say. I think US dropped the ball and got some media attention that's untimely, but the captain did, what he believed was in the best interest of both the patient, his crew, and his passengers. For those decisions he gets paid the big bucks. And IMO, he really didn't even have to consult medical personnel about this but he did so first to be an advocate for the patient and second so that he could make an informed decision.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
goCOgo
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting Cha747 (reply 37):
Perhaps the ventilator was not FAA approved?


The FAA has jurisdiction over passenger medical equipment? I can see jurisdiction over O2 cans, but vents? I imagine all manufactures make them pretty reliable, since their customer's a can't live, literally, with a failure.

Quoting Cha747 (reply 37):
Perhaps the pilot didn't want to chance a vent failure where he'd have to divert for medical reasons?


"He made sure he brought along backup batteries, as well as an "Ambu-Bag" his nurse could use to ventilate him by hand. Just in case."
-from article

The nurse could vent by hand is such a case. While squeezing one of those bags for a few hours may be uncomfortable, it is not so tiring of work that it couldn't be easily done.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 34):
The guy may have been a quadriplegic, but that does not mean he was knocking on death's door.

He doesn't have to be on death's door to be a risk, He could be as fit as a marathon runner, but if he is quadriplegic he cannot exit the plane without flight attendents help in an emergency. And if they're helping him, they're not able to help others, and blocking the aisle long enough to get him out. If they cannot ensure they have taken due care to provide safe carriage of ALL their passengers (inline with certain CAA regulations) , they have failed to keep their end of the ticket contract. They couldn't guarantee that with him onboard, and so they took due care to honour their end of the bargain to the other passengers, and that was by offloading him.

If he wasn't a quadriplegic it would be perfectly acceptable to offload a person if they thought they were considered a health/physical risk to others. Just because he is disabled does not give him immunity from their conditions of passage. If they had a reputation for doing it for other major disabilities in a variety of situations then you would have grounds for discrimination, but they don't, they take each case on its merits - as other people in this thread have shown with their personal experiences. I think it would have been more morally reprehensible to allow him onboard and put the other people in potential harms way.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
252MKR
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:43 pm

Post # 37...

Stated like a true Captain. Not an aim-chair QB--like many other posters.

Look at the UA pilot thread--turned out it was a psycho ex-wife / girlfriend--shocker Smile People need to wait and get all of the facts.
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
tcfc424
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:06 pm

As a former firefighter and EMT, I do not find this astounding at all. Sure airlines transport people with ventilators all the time...but are those patients also quadriplegic? I was more surprised at the fact that he was not on an air ambulance flight...just because his injury was some time ago doesn't mean he doesn't require special accomodations. Ambulances transport patients home from hospitals all of the time...usually because the patient cannot sit/walk/etc. This seems to be similar to me and I place no fault with US on this one. I am not a fan of US, but they played the game by the rules this time, and likely in favor of the safety of the other souls on board.

As for the 3 hour timeframe...okay, but as has been said before, perhaps the full scale of his condition was not recognized or known until he boarded the flight. Innocent until proven guilty, right? The flight crew allowed him to board but contacted MedLink when the scale of the situation was known. Had he been cleared, they would not have wanted to initially refuse him boarding...nice job.

The biggest question I have is that in the article it states that US Airways was notified well in advance of his condition. 1) Who was notified a) where was that information? b) did the reservation agent/flight crew have access to that information or made aware of it? 2) Well in advance could mean many things...what was the time frame? an hour? three hours? a day? a month?

Some of you on this board blow my mind with your conclusions. I guess I seem to forget that everyone here is a mainline captain for the big 6 and highly experienced medical professionals, not to mention ADA lawyers. Relax and let the facts emerge. THEN draw your conclusions and make accusations/implications.

Mike S. in AUS
 
lincoln
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:10 pm

Quoting Lobster (reply 4):
I'm thinking the pilot and F/A have never heard of the Americans With Disabilities Act. I'm sure that it covers this guy. Besides, if its company "policy" why didn't the person who checked him in or the gate agent know about it? I mean, come on!!


Just to make the point, the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) has been found (by way of a few court cases) to specifically NOT apply to Airlines and Airline operations. There is the ACAA (Air Carrier Access Act) which is similar to but not quite as liberal as the ADA.

And, as others have pointed out, US's Contract of Carriage/Domestic General Rules allow them to deny carriage to anyone they choose, without needing a reason, and seem to encourage the PIC to offload anyone they feel could pose a danger, as does every other airline whose COC/DGR I've read.

I don't know if I agree with the decision in this case, but I don't think it was wrong or illegal or even contrary to public policy

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
AR385
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RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:10 pm

I don't know if it was legal or not for the Captain to kick him out of the plane. What I know, is that he made a conservative, informed decision based on facts he had at his disposal at that time. I hardly believe he did it because of some sort of bigotry.

Maybe it was a too conservative decision or simply a wrong one, but I am sure he always had the best interests of everyone on board on his mind, even said passenger. And I am not a fan of US.

Captains have so many responsibilities and so many decisions they are responsible for, that I think the press is being too harsh on him.

Of course, we do need to have all the facts.
 
mikefad
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:02 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:35 pm

Speaking of lawsuits,

Can you imagine the liability of USAir if the plane crashed because of the reasons they explicitly detail in their contract of carriage?

Also, is it every day that airlines and pilots deal with UNUSUAL situations. Are YOU expected to perform FLAWLESSLY at your job? Wouldn't you rather err on the side of caution. Say the pilot shows up an hour before boarding. He learns this diabled person has been on the plane for an hour already. Does that mean necessarily that it is WRONG for him to NOT bend the rules? Just "because" disabled people should NECESSARILY be accomodated?

I find the WHINER class to be borish. I'll bet even the disabled guy would wonder what all this hubbub is about. I would say to him that it is more about hollow moral posturing by the usual 'moral high horse' crowd than about any inconvenience he may have "SUFFERED".

regards,
mikefad
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:55 pm

Everyone who travels has a set of rules that govern them, even those with disabilities, ESPECIALLY those with disabilities.

I am sure that the counter agents and gate agents thought all the rules were covered, however in the end the responsibility rests with the crew for safe passage of each passenger.

I trust that in this instance the customer's needs were being served by an alert and in charge captain. ADA, aside, this man was lucky that this Captain was in charge, stuck his head out of the cockpit, and made a decision. Kudos to the crew for having the guts to do the right thing. (And until you walk in their shoes, be careful who you criticize!)

This was a very tough decision indeed. I've had to make it.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:41 am

None of you guys get it, do you?

Whether the captian was right or wrong, US still screwed up. It should NOT have taken 3 HOURS after this guy checked in to determine if he belonged on board or not. It should have been determined long before he boarded the aircraft, and was ready to leave the gate.

Either the pilot made a rash decision, taking the guy off, when he should have been allowed to fly; or the US employees who checked him in and cleared him, only to have him yanked off at the last second, to his obvious discomfort and embarrassment, didn't do their jobs correctly.

Either way, someone at US didn't do their jobs right, because it should never get to the point that someone like that is pulled off the aircraft. If the pilot was right, then the other employees were wrong; if the pilot was wrong, then he is the one who messed up. Either way, US dropped the ball.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:47 am

http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/...tures.php?action=fullnews&id=74214

Seems to me that US is in the wrong.

FACT: He has flown nearly 2 dozens times in the past. Only had this problem once.
FACT: He booked in advance, reserved an extra wide seat for his wheelchair, and also booked a seat for his medical aide
FACT: The medical aide was going to use an ambu-bag to ventilate him -- this would mean no oxygen tanks needed -- so no risk to the pax or crew.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d...rticle?AID=/20050215/APN/502151118

Reports that he finally got to where he was going because a couple donated the use of their bizjet to get him there. But the US spokesman says that US in fact organised his onward travel and gave him a refund for the tickets. So which is it, did US organise for travel for him? Or not?

http://www.tampabays10.com/special/special_article.aspx?storyid=11978

The video report on that page says that US did not offer him, or his medical aide a refund. (So the refund mentioned by the US spokeman obviously came after the news story). The video also has a statement from the medical aide who was going to be travelling with him in which she states that US staff were made fully aware of the situation beforehand (presumably at the time of booking).

Quoting A330323X (reply 22):
III. Acceptance of Customers
Refusal to Transport

US Airways may refuse to transport, or may remove from any flight, any customer for the following reasons:

*A customer who requires constant oxygen or other life support equipment (except a customer meeting US Airways' special procedures for in-flight oxygen).


As the video report mentions, pacemakers are life support equipment. Would it be acceptable for any airline to deny boarding to any passenger with a pacemaker?!?!?

Seems to me the crew only saw the disability and didn't bother looking past it. Clear & cut case of discrimination? Looks like it to me.

[Edited 2005-02-20 17:48:15]
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:21 am

Calls of "discrimination" are weakening our society on both sides of the pond.

People need to get used to the word "NO".

If I was a pilot and I thought for one minute that carrying a person with a disability would jeopardize the safety of other passengers, the staff or hinder evacuating the aircraft in an emergency, I too wouldn't hesitate to have the person moved to another flight. You can't sacrifice the lives of many for the love of one. That's why they remove the inebriated and others off planes. I'm sure no one here would call that discrimination.

Sorry to upset some of you but all lives are sacred.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
airgeek12
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:25 am

I'm not really sure how descrimination got involved in this thread because that is certainly not the case. And no the pilot would not be fired, airlines/employees have unions for that. I do think that we need to wait off until US Air realeased the real reason why he asked the passenger to deplane. Until than, it probobly had sometime to do with his spinal injuries and sitting upright and etc, as mentioned in previous posts.
 
NorskMan
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 48):
None of you guys get it, do you?



Yeah, i do, after your 18th reply.
yeah i know
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:41 am

Thanks for such an enlightened, well thought-out reply, NorksMan. Nice to see you contribute so much to the debate on this. I don't know how you thought all that up.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
NorskMan
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Quadriplegic Removed From USAirways Flight

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:48 am

I contributed long ago, i just thought i'd let you know that i get it, finally after 3 hours.
yeah i know

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