Boeing757/767
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NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:12 am

NW applied for additional India flying:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050221/cgm009_1.html
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:20 am

Wow this is really good news. It wasn't that long ago that the only international service to BLR was to SIN. Now there is FRA along with LHR coming and here maybe AMS too. Onward connections to the US are getting better. In addition SQ to SIN and TG to BKK are also newer entrants. I have been to BLR a number of times, and although the current airport is pretty close to the city it is absolutely horrible with its two international gates, there are good opportunities in the future.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
nwacrew
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:44 am

This is a long time coming! I was hearing from our Indian agents of a possible service to Bangalore when working NWA's Bombay and Delhi flights in 1997/98. (Though at the time it was supposed the service would be routed across the Pacific and through Kuala Lumpur...)
 
jacobin777
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:07 am

Thats great news for NW...I've been saying for the past billion years that aside from expanding into China, AA should try to serve the India/Pakistan region..there are MILLIONS of Indian/Pakistani expatriates/immigrants/citizens in the US. Look at how Air India is expanding...first LAX, and now they will be expanding to SFO......

With Banglore/Delhi quickly becoming the new "Silicone Valley", AA is dumb to not take advantage of it...

obviously it becomes an issue of air rights for AA, but that is something which I don't think should be the biggest of obstacles for them.

At the very least if they have the rights, they might eventually purchase some ETOPS 787's or 777-200LR's which woud be able to fly nonstop from the US to Bangalore and other Indian/Pakistani destinations....

Watch, after 5 years, and the routes are all saturated, AA will say "we have applied to the DOT for flights to the Indian/Pakistan/SubAsian region"...
"Up the Irons!"
 
texdravid
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:14 am

Jacobin 777,

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

American has been very aggressive in its Latin American and European routes but it seems to be passed in new routes to Asia/Indian Subcontinent by NW and Delta.

Oh well, they will be the ones punished when all other airlines are reaping money from the Indian customer base in North America.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
aseem
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:18 am

with work having begun on new BLR airport, it won't be long before it is able to accommodate more carrier. Everybody is welcome and I hope folks at UA and AA are listening.
rgds
Aseem
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
atmx2000
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 3):
With Banglore/Delhi quickly becoming the new "Silicone Valley", AA is dumb to not take advantage of it...


Are you saying that Banglore and Delhi have a plethora of women that have had breast augmentation surgery? Sounds like they have more in common with California than the IT industry.  Innocent
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
gamps
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:25 am

Really really great news. (for East coasters)

Roseflyer - I also remember the days when there were no International ops out of Bangalore. And first service if I remember was Air India to Singapore. And now we have Lufthansa, Singapore, Malaysian, Thai, Sri Lankan, Royal Nepal Airlines, Gulf Air, Air India, Indian Airlines - and BA starting Ops soon. Non-stop destinations served:

Singapore (SQ, IC)
Kuala Lumpur
Bangkok
Frankfurt
London (soon)
Bahrain/Muscat
Dubai
Kathmandu
Colombo
London, Frankfurt, Los Angeles, Chicago, JFK (Air India via BOM, with same plane service on some days of the week)

And Emirates almost got the permission if not for diplomatic issue between India and Dubai over Dawood/underworld. Nevertheless Emirates is starting a freighter service next month I believe. Qatar CEO recently mentioned they want to fly to Bangalore as well.

Just can't believe how fast BLR is growing and everyone wants to fly there. Sadly though the Departure and Arrival is unbelievably messy affair especially at midnight when heavies arrive/depart. Hope the new airport work starts soon.
 
kkfla737
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:53 am

Long term, Chennai and/or Hyderebad are going to emerge as similarly important high tech centres as Bangalore. with Open skies between the US and India about to become reality, US carriers will have an adavantage finances permitting to corner the South Indian market.
 
jacobin777
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:05 am

"Atmx2000.....lol...you got me on that one....though I used spell checker, I should have caught that error.....rather pathetic given that I live in the Bay Area too....

OK..how about this...

"With Banglore/Delhi quickly becoming the new "SILICON Valley", AA is dumb to not take advantage of it...  Big grin

Texdravid..I have no idea what AA is doing regarding their expansion, I would get a laugher if either DL/CO got the rights to fly to China in '05 and '06.

AA is WAAAAAAYYYY behind the curve.......too bad because I would use them exclusively to fly to that part of the world as I do almost every year.

Though there are some political problems in Pakistan, Pan Am did use to fly to Karachi, in fact, I flew Pan Am there....

regardless...India has HUGE potential.
"Up the Irons!"
 
stealthpilot
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:37 am

That's one of the huge reasons to look forward to the new BLR airport. The present airport is ok to handle a few international flights at a time, but as everyone knows its pretty pathetic (still beats going through other bigger airports, proving the sad state of Indian affairs)

BLR is undoubtedly underserved, and demand will only go up up and up in the coming years. Enough transiting, the top 6-7 Indian airports can handle direct flights and have no need whatsoever to stopover in BOM or anywhere.

Incidentally, let’s hope Hyderabad, Pune etc catch up in the industry (but not overtake Smile) I have a lot of expectations from BLR, HYD and Chennai in the coming years.

Too bad it’s not continental

-Nikhil
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MAH4546
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 3):
AA is dumb to not take advantage of it...

obviously it becomes an issue of air rights for AA, but that is something which I don't think should be the biggest of obstacles for them.


Who said AA won't take advantage of flying to India? Maybe not BLR, but don't be surprised to see AA flying to India in 2-3 years. There aren't any air right issues, because the US and India now have Open Skies. There has been some talk about AA flying to India (I've heard via Brussels), and it could happen by the end of 2006.
a.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:42 am

Go Skyteam!! With NW, KL, AF and DL having or starting service to BOM, DEL, BLR, or MAA, it makes it much easier for my parents to visit every part of bthe family!!
 
Nimish
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:36 pm

This is exciting - any word on the aircraft type they plan to use? Or on the proposed timings on the flight? This would be a much needed boost to the BLR-> US connectivity, and would help minimize the hellish transit through our BOM/DEL "hubs".
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
N79969
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:52 pm

I agree with MAH4546. American's chief problem is that they do not have same kind of European partnership that NWA has in KLM. I do not think neglect is a fair appraisal of American's strategies in Asia. Had American received anti-trust immunity with British Airways, then the situation would have been entirely different.
 
jacobin777
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:16 pm

I don't agree with you guys/gals, I believe AA management has been slow to react....just look at the way they have responded to market conditions the past 12-18 months....they have been slow and unthorough. AA should have been on this YEARS ago (also on China)....

If AA was to ever fly to India/Paksitan, they would be much better off doing it via LHR.....in fact, 1/2 the West End of London (i.e. Slough, Middlesex, etc.) and East End have Indian/Pakistani population...of course, that would be butting heads with OneWorld partner BA (in Paksitan,BA only flies to Islamabad, I actually flew LHR-ISB once on a VC-10..still remember that flight...was awesome!), but maybe those two can figure something out.....and there is more than enough pax.

That being said, AA would do best if they flew 777-200LR's or 787's nonstop.......
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 15):
I don't agree with you guys/gals, I believe AA management has been slow to react....just look at the way they have responded to market conditions the past 12-18 months....they have been slow and unthorough.


Hmmm...yet they are in much better financial shape than US Airways, United, and Delta.

Quote:
AA should have been on this YEARS ago (also on China)....


Look at China? AA applied for rights to fly to China a few years ago, but they, along with Delta, lost to Northwest and United. They aren't slow. US-China is an access limited market. How in the world is it AA's fault they are not flying to China?

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 15):
If AA was to ever fly to India/Paksitan, they would be much better off doing it via LHR.....


There are heavy restrictions in the US-UK bilateral, and while AA could get the rights to fly LHR-India (UA has them), it wouldn't be that easy.
a.
 
N79969
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:57 pm

Jacobin777,

But I think one should consider that AA has been struggling to stay out of chapter 11. I think their priorities and energies have been focused in the right place. They have been adding flights in areas where they are traditionally strong: Latin America and within the United States. Other carriers have done the same in areas of strength.

It is only within the last year or two that the U.S.-China bilateral was liberalized enough to allow meaningful new entry. The previous time the U.S. and China signed a deal, UPS got the new traffic rights to the exclusion of passenger airlines. I believe that U.S-India open skies was signed sometime last month.

I disagree with you that American would have much to gain by flying "VFR" traffic between the UK and the Indian subcontinent. UK, Indian, and Pakistani airlines would have an insurmountable advantage in carrying that segment of the market. I would bet that the impetus for NWA is not so-called "ethnic traffic" but business travelers.
 
kkfla737
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:31 pm

I remember back in 1990 AA had an actual functioning office in Madras. I wanted to get a new timetable because this was the period of time that AA was increasing Miami flights as Eastern and Pan Am were beginning to fade. (Though PA was still increasing the size of the Miami hub). I went to the AA ticket office at Gemmni while on Summer Vacation in India and knew exactly what AA flights I'd have when coming home!

AA has long been a leader in finding alliances with smaller carriers in Europe, the Middle East and Asia to enhance services. Starting in 1991 AA had a codeshare arrangement with Gulf Air. These days AA places its code on several SN Brussels and Swiss Int'l flights outside of the One World alliance.

AA's smart assement of market circumstances may explain why they are not United or Delta right now from a financial standpoint.
 
kkfla737
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:33 pm

Keep in mind also that DL and NW need to pursue the South Indian markets on their own because the European airlines they are alligned with (Air France and KLM) do not serve Chennai or Bangalore. United and American's allies do.
 
Doona
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:58 pm

I gotta say, airlines from the US have largely ignored huge international markets. Sure, you have Northwest with the "Fugu"-hub at NRT, you have Continental Micronesia, there's Delta's and Continental's pretty extensive European networks.

But if you look at United, USAirways and AA they hardly serve a handful of destinations world wide. Delta has 1 (!) flight to East Asia (NRT). As far as I know, USAirways don't even fly further east than Hawaii, and none of the US carriers fly to Africa or the Middle East! Only Delta serves Moscow.

I remember a time when Northwest, TWA and PAN AM served all four corners of the globe. Sure, they used DC-8s and 707s with smaller capacity than, say, B747s or B777s...

I want to see more birds from the US!!! Who's with me?
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
But if you look at United, USAirways and AA they hardly serve a handful of destinations world wide.


United has a very extensive Asian network. They have a hub in NRT just like NW does and competes on a lot of the same routes. NW does serve some smaller Asian markets with dedicated narrowbody flights in Asia, but UA still has a large presence in Asia by serving NRT, KIX, PEK, PVG, HKG, SIN, BKK along with SYD and MEL.

AA has a huge Latin American network from their hubs in MIA and SJU. They serve all of the large cities in South America and are the number one carrier there now. AA also has a number of flights to Europe serving Shannon, Dublin, Glasgow, Manchester, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Brussels, Zurich, Madrid and Rome.

The only one that you mentioned that doesn't have a large international network is US. They don't have a very deep domestic network either and are focused on the eastern half of the USA and don't even fly as West as Hawaii, so don't think that they are a major airline that should be serving the world. They do have a European network though that is fed from the East coast, but nothing major since US isn't the biggest airline.

US airlines don't have the international service now that they did way back when. It used to be that Pan Am was one of the only airlines in the entire Pacific and therefore operated service to everywhere with all sorts of connections. With every country in the modern world having its own airline(s), there is no need for this excessive service since the market for that is gone.

I still do agree though that more US airlines should serve India and South Asia. It is very far and expensive though as well as risky. Nonstops are hard to operate now with the given equipment in the fleets. The few flights through Europe are all we have. I would also like to see UA or NW operate a flight to India from their NRT hubs. I think there could be a merket for that, but overall someone needs to start a nonstop.

Overall though I am with you in that I want to see more US airlines abroad along with more flying of everything if there is a market for it, but that is because I am an aviation fan.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:26 pm

not complaining, but has anyone ever seen an "article" that looked so exactly like a re-printed press release? northwest couldn't have asked for a better translation of their corporate language onto the page.
 
kkfla737
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting Roseflyer (reply 21):
The only one that you mentioned that doesn't have a large international network is US.



Us actually flies to more European cities than AA or UA and more cities in Latin American than anyone but AA and CO. They are late bloomers when it comes to an Int'l network but with more emphasis on European flights from Philadelphia and Latin American flights from Fort Lauderdale and Charlotte.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (reply 23):
and more cities in Latin American than anyone but AA and CO.


Delta flies to more Latin American cities than US Airways does. US Airways Latin American network is limited only to Mexico and Central America.

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
But if you look at United, USAirways and AA they hardly serve a handful of destinations world wide.


Check your facts. Only CO serves more international destinations than AA, who flies to large, medium, and small size cities throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, including they only international trans-continental airline at airports such as Asunion, La Paz, and Santa Cruz.

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
As far as I know, USAirways don't even fly further east than Hawaii,


They don't fly to Hawai'i.

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
and none of the US carriers fly to Africa or the Middle East!


Continental is starting Lagos service later this year and they already fly to Tel Aviv. The lack of US airline in the region is that there is simply not enough demand. Would you like US airlines to magically create that demand? Africa is to Europe what Latin America is to the US, and it is not surprising to note the lack of European service to major Latin American capitals such as Lima, Bogota, and Santiago de Chile. Thin demand and distance, just like why US carriers aren't in Africa!

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
Only Delta serves Moscow.


Continental is starting Moscow service next year.
a.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
I gotta say, airlines from the US have largely ignored huge international markets.


I can't agree more with you !!

And those carriers are for most of them engaged in silly domestic fare wars with budget carriers.

It's all profit for the European carriers after all !!!

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
gigneil
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting Doona (reply 20):
As far as I know, USAirways don't even fly further east than Hawaii, and none of the US carriers fly to Africa or the Middle East!


CO serves TLV.


Quoting MAH4546 (reply 24):
Delta flies to more Latin American cities than US Airways does.


I don't think that's true.

N
 
kkfla737
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:08 am

I took the liberty of including the Carribean with L.A., but Mark you are right if we stick to the technical Latin American definition.

While I believe India is underserved by US carriers, much of thw world is not. There is probably more capacity from the Far East's major cities to major US points on US flag carriers than to major European points on European carriers.

There is more service from the US to Latin America on American flag carriers than from Europe to Latin America on European carriers and more service from the US to Europe on American carriers than from Europe to Asia or L.A. on Latin American or Asian carriers.

Only Africa, the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent stand out and that is a residual effect of the demise of Pan Am and TWA. In 1982, Pan Am served 8 African cities (Abdijan, Accra, Lagos, Dakar, Johannesburg, Nairobi, Monrovia and Cairo) and only 15 European cities. They served 4 Gulf cities (Dhahran, Dubai, Bahrain and Riyadh) and 3 Indian Subcontinent cities. (Bombay, Karachi, Delhi). Of the list only Bombay and Delhi currently have US flag carrier service. Tel Aviv which was long served by TWA (along with Bombay and Cairo, TWA's long time destinations, even though TWA dropped BOM in the late 80s) is also served by an American flag carrier today, CO.

Those days are gone, but eventually you may see a retreat of some European flag carriers from similarly symbolic but unprofitable markets.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:19 am

A good idea would be to extend NWA's BOS-AMS A330 service to Bangalore. BOS is home to many IT companies and so is Bangalore. A connection between them would be very lucrative.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:29 am

Actually, DIJKKIJK,

There will be a connection with Boston. The flight number goes MSP-AMS-Bangalore, with a stop and probable equipment change at AMS. That will be timed for connections from BOS, DTW, MEM, SEA, etc.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
aseem
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (reply 29):
with a stop and probable equipment change at AMS. That will be timed for connections from BOS, DTW, MEM, SEA, etc.

I'd suggest they better do equipment change. Lot more connections that way. Add YYZ as well!!
rgds
Aseem
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
Jano
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:23 am

My hunch is it's gonna be run in the same way as NW 41/42 and 45/46 are run.

From NW schedule:
NW 42
Stops Amsterdam - Schiphol for 3 hr. 45 min.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:29 am

Quoting Gigneil (reply 26):
Quoting MAH4546 (reply 24):
Delta flies to more Latin American cities than US Airways does.


I don't think that's true.


US Airways Latin American Network:
MEX, CUN, CZM, GUA, SAL, PTY, SJO, LIR, SDQ, PUJ, LRM
TOTAL: 11

Delta's Latin American Network:
MEX, CUN, CZM, GUA, SAL, PTY, SJO, LIR, MGA, BOG, CCS, LIM, EZE, GRU, SCL, GDL, SJD, MTY, STI, SDQ
TOTAL: 20

Quoting Kkfla737 (reply 27):
Of the list only Bombay and Delhi currently have US flag carrier service.


Delhi isn't served by a US flag carrier. United ended service in September 2001 and Northwest handed over the route to KLM at around the same time.
a.
 
LFutia
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:18 am

are they going to ops to BLR with a DC-10 or an A330?
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:49 am

If this route were to begin in October, it would likely start initially with a DC-10-30, similar to the AMS-BOM flights. Once enough A330-300's are delivered it would transition to that.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:08 am

I hope DC-10, because nobody else does  Smile
-Nikhil
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burnsie28
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:14 am

US Airlines cant fly to Delhi due to the route that it would have to take over Afghanistan. Thats why UA dropped and NW shifted it to KLM.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:46 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (reply 36):
US Airlines cant fly to Delhi due to the route that it would have to take over Afghanistan. Thats why UA dropped and NW shifted it to KLM


Well we dropped out of AMS-DEL after 9/11. KL continued to operate it. DEL was a weaker market than BOM. We operated it daily and KL piggybacked 3 times a week. The routing around Afghanistan had little to do with it. We could operate it right now if we wanted to.
Made from jets!
 
redtailmsp
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:53 pm

Lfutia, the service will be using A330-300s out of AMS - don't anyone get all excited about A330's operating the MSP-AMS portion just yet, as that is not for sure. The DC10 just will not make it on this flight - high density altitude at BLR / short runway make it prohibitively restrictive for the DC10. There will be 3 A330-300s delivered this year in May, July and September, 2005.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: NW Wants To Fly To Bangalore

Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:33 pm

Redtailmsp: I thought the runway at BLR was 10,800 feet. I agree it's almost 3000 MSL, but it’s strange that a DC10 cannot make it when an a343 and 744 can. Is the DC10 that under-capable?
How long does the runway need to be?
-Nikhil
eP007