boeingforever
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Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:38 pm

whats the largest airport(in terms of passengers) in the US, with no major airline calling the airport a "hub"....
 
cornish
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:41 pm

At a guess, how about somewhere like Orlando ?
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boeingforever
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:44 pm

i was thinking more like FLL...but im pretty sure its in florida
 
avek00
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:47 pm

IINM, JFK likely tops the list.
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COSPN
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:50 pm

L A X ???..........................
 
rwylie77
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:53 pm

Area 51?! OK, so the passengers aren't necessarily human...
 
cornish
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:58 pm

Accortding to ACI the top airports are these:

http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/disp...i_content.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5_9_25__

Orlando looks the highest ranked non-hub airport to me (in fact the only one in the top thirty)
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nycflyer
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:25 am

LAX is a UA hub

FLL is a mini hub for US

My guess is SAN or SAT
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:40 am

JFK is a B6 hub
LAX is alot of peoples big base but UA's hub
FLL is kind of one for B6 but not official and it is a sort-of US hub

My guess is MCO or SAN.

jetBlueAtJFK
 
boeingforever
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:54 am

what about LAS..or is that a Southwest hub?
 
lvkewlkid
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:02 am

LAS is a WN, HP, and Allegiant Air Hub.

I guess you could also call it a focus city of Ted, but I might be wrong.
 
airgeek12
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:08 am

Maybe MCO?? I know WS kind-of uses Orlando as an almost "mini hub". I'll check it out and be right back with the routes they fly out of there.
 
lvkewlkid
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Lvkewlkid (reply 10):
LAS is a WN, HP, and Allegiant Air Hub.

I guess you could also call it a focus city of Ted, but I might be wrong.


Actually, most of the major airlines have a lot of routes coming out of LAS.

The most frequent are (except HP, WN, and Allegiant):
Delta/Song
Ted
AA

I also see quite a bit NW and CO when I look out my window.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:17 am

FLL is a focus city for US, not a hub.

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rootsair
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:29 am

Did JFK lose alot of pax and moeny after TWA and Pan Am ran out of business?
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lvkewlkid
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:37 am

probably not, because Delta/Song took over the Pan Am Terminals, Jet Blue came, and American Airlines took over 2 terminals. The only thing they lost was Terminal 5.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:41 am

Dang, I thought this was going to be a thread about large airports with NO airline service...I was going to supply the unused St. Louis airport in Illinois (what is that one called again?).

There was a thread a while back about largest airports without a hub, based on population of the city. San Diego ranked highest on that last. In terms of passenger numbers, I believe MCO Orlando would be the highest.
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airgeek12
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RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting Airgeek12 (reply 11):
Maybe MCO?? I know WS kind-of uses Orlando as an almost "mini hub". I'll check it out and be right back with the routes they fly out of there.


Ok.. Southwest (WN) flies the following routes out of MCO:

  • MCO > FLL

  • MCO > RDU

  • MCO > OFK

  • MCO > BWI

  • MCO > PHL

  • MCO > ISP

  • MCO > SPI

  • MCO > PVD

  • MCO > MHT

  • MCO > ALB

  • MCO > BUF

  • MCO > MDW

  • MCO > GMH

  • MCO > IND

  • MCO > SDF

  • MCO > MCI

  • MCO > STL

  • MCO > BNA

  • MCO > BHM

  • MCO > JAN

  • MCO > MSY

  • MCO > HOU

  • MCO > ABQ

  • MCO > SAT

  • MCO > AUS

  • MCO > PHX


  • As you can see there a quite a few routes WN uses out of there, so not sure if MCO would be a canidate. Does anyone know if southwest calls this an offical "hub"?

    geek
     
    STLUAL747
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:01 am

    PanAm747,

    The airport's name in Belleville, IL is called Midamerica Airport. However it does now have airline service. There are flights to, I believe MCO with talk of adding LAS, on Trans meridian Airlines.

    Josh
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    PanAm747
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:07 am

    Thanks, Josh!!

    Was going to call it "Great America" airport - I knew it had America in the title.

    Is Trans Meridian Airlines the only airline?
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    AlitaliaMD11
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:12 am

    JFK is a hub for Jet Blue and a mini hub for BA (United States wise) AA, and DL.
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    Boeing757/767
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:13 am

    WN also serves Hartford (BDL) from Orlando.
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    TWA902fly
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:41 am

    MSY i am pretty sure is up there, along with Kansas City , San Diego... Boston?

    Is any airline hubbed in Boston? I am pretty sure theres just a lot of service there... same with LGA?

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    STLUAL747
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:57 am

    PanAm747,

    Yes Trans Meridian is the only airline. However there have been a few that have come and gone over the past few years.

    Josh
    Lonely in Deserted St. Louis.
     
    lvkewlkid
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:12 am

    Quoting TWA902fly (reply 22):
    Is any airline hubbed in Boston? I am pretty sure theres just a lot of service there... same with LGA?


    Boston is B6's focus city. LGA is a focus city of USAirways, AA (domestically), and DL.
     
    lvkewlkid
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:14 am

    http://www.skyguide.net/reference/hub.html has a map of all the hubs in the USA, except I think it needs to be a little bit updated, since DL de-hubbed at DFW, and Allegiant now has a hub at LAS.
     
    lvkewlkid
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:17 am

    Quoting TWA902fly (reply 22):
    Is any airline hubbed in Boston?


    AA, US, B6, and DL all have focus operations in Boston.

    San Diego is a WN hub.

    MCO is a DL hub/focus city.
     
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    jetpixx
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:43 am

    I would have to think MCO is not one to be included in this list - I am not sure if Southwest is an 'official' hub for them, but Comair and Chautauqua could be considered a hub at MCO for Delta.

    As far as FLL, it seems people forget that Spirit relocated their headquarters to South Florida and makes FLL technically a hub. US Airways in FLL is certainly just a focus city, as is jetBlue, Delta, etc. there.

    I would have to say that the largest is what a poster added earlier - SAN. There is nothing that could even closely resemble a hub. As far as a larger airport without major carriers, how about PIE?
     
    GentFromAlaska
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:04 am

    Well it has to be BWI, cause Southwest doesn't do hubs. I think they call it point to point. A second guess would be Nashville (BNA)
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    boac707
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:15 am

    actually the biggest is Mirabel...big international terminal with no passengers flying there now.
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    nycflyer
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:18 am

    JFK is a hub for Jet Blue and a mini hub for BA (United States wise) AA, and DL.

    how is JFK a focus city for BA? you can only fly to LHR and MAN (less frequently). I think you need more than two destinations to be a focus city.

    a good way of rephrasing this question is which is the largest city with just regional service, i.e. just service to other airport hubs.

    AUS, SAT, and MSY are up there - not even focus cities for any airline

    is PDX a focus city for Horizon?
     
    lvkewlkid
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:19 am

    WN does do hubs, but they are more of focus cities. The only true hubs would probably be LAS, BWI, and MDW.
     
    nycflyer
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:28 am

    RDU is up there too - I don't buy the argument that they're an AA focus city anymore
     
    flymia
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:36 am

    WN does not have any hubs. I would say MCO.
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    lvkewlkid
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:41 am

    Quoting NYCFlyer (reply 30):

    is PDX a focus city for Horizon?


    PDX is a hub for AS, I think it is a hub for Horizon too.
     
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:10 pm

    Quoting Jetpixx (reply 27):
    As far as FLL, it seems people forget that Spirit relocated their headquarters to South Florida and makes FLL technically a hub


    You need spokes to have a hub. How exactly does NK funnel passengers through FLL to an onward NK destination? Headquarters and hubs are two
    separate things.

    Quoting Airgeek12 (reply 17):
    Ok.. Southwest (WN) flies the following routes out of MCO:


    MCO > FLL

    MCO > RDU

    MCO > OFK

    MCO > BWI

    MCO > PHL

    MCO > ISP

    MCO > SPI

    MCO > PVD

    MCO > MHT

    MCO > ALB

    MCO > BUF

    MCO > MDW

    MCO > GMH

    MCO > IND

    MCO > SDF

    MCO > MCI

    MCO > STL

    MCO > BNA

    MCO > BHM

    MCO > JAN

    MCO > MSY

    MCO > HOU

    MCO > ABQ

    MCO > SAT

    MCO > AUS

    MCO > PHX


    So if you classify MCO as a hub for WN then what is it for DL as they serve an additional 13 cities beyond what WN serves.

    MCO-ATL
    MCO-BDL
    MCO-BHM
    MCO-BNA
    MCO-BOS
    MCO-CAE
    MCO-CHS
    MCO-CMH
    MCO-CVG
    MCO-DAY
    MCO-EWR
    MCO-EYW
    MCO-FLL
    MCO-GPT
    MCO-GSO
    MCO-GSP
    MCO-HSV
    MCO-JFK
    MCO-LAS
    MCO-LAX
    MCO-LEX
    MCO-LGA
    MCO-LIT
    MCO-MIA
    MCO-MOB
    MCO-MSY
    MCO-NAS
    MCO-PFN
    MCO-PNS
    MCO-RDU
    MCO-RIC
    MCO-RSW
    MCO-SAV
    MCO-SDF
    MCO-SJU
    MCO-SLC
    MCO-TLH
    MCO-TRI
    MCO-TYS
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    KLM11
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:56 pm

    If you think SAN is not a "hub", think again. WN owns over half of terminal 1, and though it might not be WN's hub, they have over 70 daily flights, serving destinations all over the USA.

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    ERJ170
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:59 pm

    Quoting NYCFlyer (reply 30):
    AUS, SAT, and MSY are up there - not even focus cities for any airline


    AUS is an AA focus city..
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    NceBoy
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:26 pm

    YMX Montreal-Mirabel... Quite a big airport, but not a passenger in sight in the terminals ! I believe it is only used for cargo now, and the Bombardier facilities...
    coz I'm leaving on a jetplane !
     
    Tiger119
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:50 pm

    Quoting PanAm747 (reply 16):
    ...I was going to supply the unused St. Louis airport in Illinois (what is that one called again?).


    - Isn't the airport in Belleville, IL actually Scott AFB? I didn't think they had any civil, commercial traffic in and out of there.
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    Doona
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:39 pm

    Actually, it's both. Scott AFB and Midamerica Airport share the airfield. The terminal actually has three or four JETWAYS! Been past there a few times by car driving up from Nashville TN to Lincoln NE through St. Louis. The interstate (I80 if I'm not incorrect.) passes right by it, and offers great views of the airport..

    Always has intrigued me that there were jetways but never any aircraft, and how come I had never heard of the place before?
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    HlywdCatft
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:19 pm

    Ok the situation of MCO and do people really know what a hub is?

    MCO has its most flights from Delta Airlines- That is counting Delta, Chataqua (Delta Connection), Song, and Comair. Those four combined Delta carriers have far more daily flights than Southwest. Another big carrier at MCO is Air Tran with flights to many cities.

    MCO is NOT a Delta, Southwest or Air Tran hub. How many people fly to MCO to connect? I bet not many fly to MCO from lets say JFK on Song to connect to SLC on Delta, or you don't see people fly from MDW to MCO to connect to FLL on Southwest very often... i mean there may be a very few but MCO is an Orrigination and Destination O and D airport. Even if Delta had 300 flights or more a day to MCO, it probably wouldn't be considered a hub.

    In LA's case, United is considered a hub there somewhat because people do fly from places like DEN, Monterey etc to LA, then connect on a UA flight to HNL, or NRT etc.
     
    COSPN
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:58 pm

    LAX sounds Like More of a Gateway, Where Does UA Fly fron LAX that is non hub...Like HNL MSY SEA ....Mabe wrong but how many cities make up a "HUB"

    IND ??? Not on the Skyguide map...but has non-stops to many places..
     
    doninfc
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:08 pm

    Based on airports with primarily O&D traffic, I'd say:
    1. MCO
    2. SAN
    3. TPA
    4. FLL
    5. PDX

    Honorable mentions, in no particular order: MCI/MSY/SAT/AUS/BDL/SMF/BNA/IND
     
    Doona
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:32 am

    LAX is a UAL hub, isn't it? ORD, IAD, DEN, SFO, and LAX, right?

    mats
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:20 am

    I wouldn't say that SAN is a hub for WN. I bet the traffic there is almost wholly O&D, and considering its geographic position there's very little opportunity for connections. I think that BWI, PHX, and LAS, on the other hand, could be considered hubs for Southwest, as there are plenty of connections to be had at these airports.

    Aaron G.
     
    N1120A
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:33 am

    >LAX sounds Like More of a Gateway, Where Does UA Fly fron LAX that is non hub...Like HNL MSY SEA ....Mabe wrong but how many cities make up a "HUB"<

    Scheduling hub and spoke banks makes an airport a hub, and LAX definately qualifies for UA. They primarily use it as a hub for latin american flights and as a back up asian hub for SFO. Additionally, there is a lot of STAR connectivity there.

    If you want the most heavily used airport that does not have any airline, let alone a major airline, it is VNY hands down
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    flashmeister
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    RE: Largest Airport With No Major Airline?

    Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:43 am

    Once and for all, PDX is off the list. It is a hub for Alaska/Horizon.

    It would be difficult to determine what is and what is not a hub for WN. One way we could do it would be to compare to other carriers. For instance, DL lists SLC as a hub, and SLC has about 17% of DL's traffic. When DFW was still a hub, it was about 11% of traffic.

    So, for argument's sake, let's say that one way to measure a hub may be that it accounts for 10% or more of an airline's traffic.

    That means that a hub for Southwest would need about 290 flghts. There problem is, there aren't any WN stations that meet this criteria. The largest is LAS, at 195 flights, or about 7% of WN's traffic.

    Just another way to illustrate why it's hard, or nearly impossible, to answer the question of "what are Southwest's hubs"? We know where its largest operations are, but to put them on the same level as a "hub" that a legacy carrier would have is inaccurate: any of the large WN cities is not nearly as important to the airline as a whole as a hub would be to a traditional carrier.

    For those keeping score, by the way, WN's ten largest cities in order (according to southwest.com), are LAS PHX BWI MDW HOU OAK DAL LAX SAN BNA. In tenth position, BNA has 85 flights, or about 3% of the airline's traffic. When your 10th largest city has only 3% of your traffic, that's a pretty good indicator that you're fairly well decentralized.