leelaw
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Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:15 pm

Justplanes.com has added a new feature summarizing orders/cancellations for each manufacturer:

http://www.justplanes.com/acorders.html

I'm not sure why the Air China order for 20 A332s is not included, unless it remains unconfirmed?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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keesje
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:52 pm

Nice overview!

A small improvement could be the overall backlog & value based on listprice (numbers only tell half story).
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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keesje
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:57 pm

...& UPS order is for 10 A380.


LOUISVILLE, Jan. 10, 2005 - Moving to expand the capacity of its air network to accommodate strong international growth, UPS (NYSE:UPS) today announced a firm order for 10 A380 super-jumbo freighter aircraft made by Airbus.
http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/about/news/01_10_2005.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
col
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:43 pm

Just Planes seems a little off-

Airbus in Jan had:
VS 10 x 346
GECAS 2 x 332
KIngfisher 10 x 320
Sichun 2 x 319 + 6 x 320

I don't think the China Southern or UPS orders are confirmed yet. Pretty poor reporting from what I can see!
 
leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting Col (reply 3):
Pretty poor reporting from what I can see!


The concept of the comparative order summary is nice; hopefully, they'll continue and improve upon it, and quickly correct any errors or omissions.

IMO, part of the problem is that the sales data available from the Airbus website is difficult to locate and summarize.

[Edited 2005-02-23 15:14:59]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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keesje
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:02 am

& the list is growing ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
col
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:15 am

Leelaw,

Airbus order info is quite comprehensive, only issue is that it is monthly, whereas Boeing is weekly. They also state that they are orders confirmed by the manufacturers, but realistically I think that some are not signed in stone.

I like to review justplanes as their info is normally very up to date, and I too would like a good comparison, but this to me is still very poor as it is way wide of the mark.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:20 am

145 orders in 2005 ? Wow, Boeing is doing very well. They are back in business !
 
starrion
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:33 am

Didn't GOL order 4 aircraft when they upped their number of options and just firmed 5 of their options to orders? That would give them 9.

Boeing's website is showing 4 orders, and hasn't reflected the announcement.
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leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:48 am

The justplanes.com weekday airline news summary has markedly improved since the beginning of the year; consequently, I'm willing to cut them some slack to sort out this new comparative order summary feature which is helpful and was after all, just unveiled today. I'm sure the anal "order nerds" have already bombarded them with suggested corrections and improvements.

[Edited 2005-02-23 18:51:07]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
col
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:58 am

Leelaw,

I don't understand how you believe the summary is useful with it's present content. Once corrected it may be, but at present it is not. I am not one of those order nerds, just someone who deals in hard facts.
 
leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:37 am

Col:

Revenge of the Anal Order Nerds.  Laugh out loud

Looks like they've already corrected the error on the UPS order Keesje cited, and added the Kingfisher order since this morning. Perhaps the other unconscionable omissions of fact you cited will be addressed soon as well.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
nwa330tony
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:56 am

seeing that makes me think where would boeing be without that 737-800 line?
It is good to see the B787 doing so well already. cant wait to see that bird fly!

[Edited 2005-02-23 23:59:03]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting Sebolino (reply 7):
Wow, Boeing is doing very well. They are back in business !


Were they ever out ?  Big grin
 
starrion
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:06 am

With the deluge of orders that went towards Airbus at the end of last year, I think some people thought they were out. As it is it's great to see both sides fattening the order book. It's a fun industry to watch, to spot and to travel on.

It's entertaining to watch the two companies compete and to cheer them on.

No referee's either unless you count the WTO.

More entertaining than the NHL. I can't even imagine what the Canadians are doing for entertainment.
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Philaboy
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:17 am

Ethiopian ordered 5 787's????. Why am I having trouble picturing that plane in my mind and I am an artist.
 
777ER
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting Philaboy (reply 15):
Ethiopian ordered 5 787's????.

Yes thats correct
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting Philaboy (reply 15):
Ethiopian ordered 5 787's????. Why am I having trouble picturing that plane in my mind and I am an artist.


Boeing doesn't seem to have that problem  Big grin





[Edited 2005-02-24 02:27:14]
 
Lockheed1011
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:33 pm

Thank you for the info!  Smile

Saved the page in my Favorites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:40 pm

The page is now in my bookmarks.

Alas, while Boeing is out of the gates in early 2005, I do find it a bit distorted not having a summary of 2004 also available. While I like following this horse race, this is more of a super-marathon than a sprint. For this mile, Boeing is running faster, for the last few its been Airbus. The starting line is back before I was born... The finish line hopefully decades of interesting products away!

Great link!

Lightsaber
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sebolino
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:46 pm

I have the feeling that Boeing is regaining its rank of number 1. They have now a modern offer (737NG, 787, 777) and Airbus should probably think quite fast of a A320 replacement, or a modernization of the A320. 145 orders in just 2 months is huge !
 
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keesje
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:32 pm

The official Airbus spreadsheet gives 5287 ordered, 3776 deleivered makes a backlog of 1511.
http://www.airbus.com/doc/media/orde...deliveries/orders_n_deliveries.xls

Were can I find the official Boeing overview ?

These should perhaps be the bases for the scoreboard, maybe a seperate one for rumors, options, LOI's etc..

For 2004 Boeing got 277 orders, Airbus 370 according to:
http://www.speednews.com/lists/04O&D.pdf
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
777ER
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:34 pm

Ryanair can now be added to the 2005 Boeing list with 70+70 orders  Smile
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rootsair
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:40 pm

how boring !!!! Nearly only 737's !!!
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leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting Keesje (reply 21):
Were can I find the official Boeing overview ?


http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Boeing doesn't have the nice Excel spreadsheet like Airbus, but all kinds of standard and user defined reports available.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
777ER
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting RootsAir (reply 23):
how boring !!!! Nearly only 737's !!!

Its better then nothing
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767-332ER
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:29 pm

So the JAL 30 737's are they supposedly 737-900X's?
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:01 pm

Quoting 767-332ER (reply 26):
So the JAL 30 737's are they supposedly 737-900X's?


No, though they expressed an interest in the model.

As for Justplanes I don't find their website too accurate when it comes to what is actually "firm orders" on the books. They actually report rumours from this Forum as orders! The best arbiter for orders is the Year End totals posted by Boeing and Airbus on their sites.

Boeing have started strong this year, just like Airbus finished strong last year and it will be very interesting to see how both end the year after such a strong start.

Regards
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leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:12 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (reply 27):
They actually report rumours from this Forum as orders!


Hmmm...They're certainly guilty of some errors and omissions so far, however, I don't see anything they've listed which can't be found on the manufacturers' websites or in the mainstream or specialized media?

[Edited 2005-02-24 13:24:06]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:19 pm

Quoting Leelaw (reply 28):
Hmmm...They're certainly guilty of some omissions so far, however, I don't see anything they've listed which can't be found on the manufacturers websites or in the mainstream or specialized media?


Hi Leelaw

I only look at their News summary they do every Friday and I find that over time they've had some nighmare reports. Let's go right back a few years when they reported QF ordered the 777! Where they really miss a lot though are on follow on orders and Option conversions which they're very poor at reporting. That could be made harder in Boeing's case as most are initially listed as the infamous UFOs.

Was not trying to be too negative but there are people on this board that consistently have more detailed numbers than sites such as Justplanes. Only my $.02 so it can't be worth that much!!!!

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
leelaw
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RE: Ultimate Airbus/Boeing Order Scoreboard

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:50 pm

Hi PANAM DC10:

As a disclaimer, I have no particular interest in being their booster (I hate boosterism), as there have been some serious quality issues on the audio tracks of a fair number of DVDs I've purchased from them.

Nevertheless, they've really improved their News summary in terms of quality of the content since the beginning of the year, and are now updating it every weekday.

I'm just happy they're attempting to comprehensively summarize the order data. Hopefully, they'll refine and improve this new feature of their website.


Regards
Lex Ancilla Justitiae

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