flyfirst
Posts: 73
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UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:12 pm

Any ideas if UA or CO will be back to SCL ? AA and LA flights to the US are very full, so don't understand why others don't come back.

Thanks,

AN

[Edited 2005-02-24 15:18:30]
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:13 pm

UA serves SCL with its partner RG, via GRU.

Rgs,
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting Flyfirst (reply 0):
AA and LA flights to the US are very full, so don't understand why others don't come back.


A full flight does not mean profit, you have to look at high-yielding pax, especially on business/first class. SCL is traditionally a low-yielding market.

Rgs,
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:26 pm

Adding to Hardiwv's post.....you have to look at the cargo, too. Baggage doesn't fill the belly of widebodies. Cargo does and airlines make good money off of it. If an airline can't generate enough cargo sales, they won't enter a new market/start a new route.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
flyfirst
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:33 pm

I remember taking the UA flight from SCL to MIA back in 2000 and it was hard getting a seat, also during the peak cargo times, 767's were full with fruit and fresh fish to the US.
I think UA would do great with a Santiago/Chicago or Washington.
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:38 pm

As I said, you could have loads of 90% and still dont make a profit. Currently airlines are focusing more and more on their elite products: business and first class. It is known that SCL performs rather weakly on high-yielding market.

Even LAN's OW partner AA only have a single daily flight to SCL. It shows that yields must not be very high.

Rgs,
 
flyfirst
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 5):
Even LAN's OW partner AA only have a single daily flight to SCL


AA x 7: SCL-MIA
AA x 7: SCL-DFW
DL X 7: SCL-ATL
LA x 14: SCL-MIA
LA x 14: SCL-LAX
LA x 7 : SCL-JFK
 
Kavanagh
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:50 pm

Wow!!!
That would be awsome... a non-stop SANTIAGO-WASHINGTON DULLES or SANTIAGO-CHICAGO O´HARE. Maybe UA is thinking to do their routes CHICAGO-EZEIZA or DULLES-EZEIZA an extention to SCL.... although, with so many flights daily on SCL-EZE-SCL route, its just no necessary.

bye
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:55 pm

Flyfirst:

For some of your flights you forgot to mention that there is a stop-over, for example: SCL-LAX is actually via LIM. I assume some flights are operated by LP and not LA, correct?

Still, 2 daily flight for a OW hub is not substantive and means that traffic is thin.

Rgs,
 
flyfirst
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:57 pm

Hardiwv:
Yes you are right:
LA X 7: SCL-LIM-LAX
LP X 7: SCL-LIM-LAX
LA X 7: SCL-LIM JFK
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:58 pm

Flyfirst:

Thanks for the clarification!

Rgs,
 
Seattle Ops
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:48 am

Doesn't Chile require hiring a large number of Chilean nationals in order to operate to SCL?
 
iluv747400
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting Flyfirst (reply 9):
Hardiwv:
Yes you are right:
LA X 7: SCL-LIM-LAX
LP X 7: SCL-LIM-LAX
LA X 7: SCL-LIM JFK


The LanPeru flight only operates 3 times a week, not 7.
 
latinaviation
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting Seattle ops (reply 11):
Doesn't Chile require hiring a large number of Chilean nationals in order to operate to SCL?


I don't believe so, though AA has an F/A base there, UA did and DL's LatAm res office is in Chile.

I don't think CO did well with the DC-10 to SCL, at least that's what I hear from the New York market.

UA did fine to SCL for a while, they even operated the 777 there for a short while. But LatAm was never a big priority for United and the costs of maintaining an F/A base in SCL (mainly US citizens, not foreign nationals) and the closing of the Miami mini-hub, I don't think it made sense for them.
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:10 am

Is it correct that the only destination served by DL B777 is SCL? (in Brazil DL operates only B767s).

Rgs,
 
SESGDL
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 14):


No. DL 777s serve ATL, CVG, MCO, LGW, CDG, FRA, MXP, and NRT at the moment, or in the last few weeks. DL has never operated a 777 to SCL.

Jeremy
 
flyguy1
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:48 am

I dont think the SCL nonstop market is that strong to the USA. LA actually upgraded one of its daily flights into JFK nonstop SCL-JFK, but dropped it back to one-stop via LIM soon after 9/11.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Ezra
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 14):
Is it correct that the only destination served by DL B777 is SCL? (in Brazil DL operates only B767s).


Whoops, my bad. Ignore this post, please!

[Edited 2005-02-25 20:12:44]
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:02 am

It is true that the only international destination presently served by DL 764 is SCL.

The 764 goes to LIM...not SCL. SCL sees the 763ER.
 
CAL
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:14 am

I remember CO used to go to SCL with a 757 it was IAH-LIM-SCL. It was not working out. The LIM-SCL portion only had like 15 passengers sometimes.

CO would be intrested but if its between SCL or PVG or something like that, Sorry SCL will be for later.

CO also has COPA going there so they just send passengers thru PTY.
CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting CAL (reply 19):
I remember CO used to go to SCL with a 757 it was IAH-LIM-SCL


That flight replaced the EWR-SCL nonstop DC-10, which every time I saw it had a good load.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
panamair
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:53 am

CO codeshares on DL's ATL-SCL route currently. According to some DL people I've spoken to, the key reason for DL doing OK and staying in the SCL market is mostly due to cargo.
 
Lan_Fanatic
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 2):
A full flight does not mean profit, you have to look at high-yielding pax, especially on business/first class. SCL is traditionally a low-yielding market.


At least Delta's daily flight ATL-SCL relies heavily on cargo.So you don't have to look only for high yielding pax. You also need a fair amount of cargo, and SCL has it.


Quoting Hardiwv (reply 8):
Still, 2 daily flight for a OW hub is not substantive and means that traffic is thin.

As far as I know, United has two daily flights to GRU. One from ORD and one from IAD. So, 2 daily flights for a Star hub is not substantive and means traffic is thin  Insane


Quoting Flyguy1 (reply 16):
I dont think the SCL nonstop market is that strong to the USA. LA actually upgraded one of its daily flights into JFK nonstop SCL-JFK, but dropped it back to one-stop via LIM soon after 9/11.


From what I've read, LanChile launched non-stop flights from SCL to JFK so they could get rid of CO on the SCL-NYC market. Probably there are other reasons.
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:03 pm

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (reply 22):
As far as I know, United has two daily flights to GRU. One from ORD and one from IAD. So, 2 daily flights for a Star hub is not substantive and means traffic is thin


UA two daily flights have to be seen in perspective with GRU's 1) CO two daily flights + DL two daily flights + AA 5 daily flights + JJ two daily flights + RG 18 x week flights; 2) UA focus on Asia.

It is correct to day that UA has been trailing behin in South America in general.

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (reply 22):
At least Delta's daily flight ATL-SCL relies heavily on cargo


Wouldnt a cargo-only flight be more appropriate?

Rgs,
 
Avianca
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:08 am

Hardiwv,

you forget that Brazil has 10 times more inhabitans than Chile, and that Chile is has not a hub function, it is not possible with the geografic that they have. Sao Paulo has a much better position at the continent.

Please do not compare always all Southamerican countrys with Brazil...

Flights too and from SCL are doing well. Cargo is doing also great, look to LAN they have a good amount of operation to MIAMI and Europe, and the flights are nearly always full. North and Southbound. For example Cargolux witch goes from SCL full loaden with fresh fish to europe.


Chile is on the correct way.

Viva America del Sur.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
klwright69
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:15 am

CO's LIM-SCL leg was a tag on from the EWR flight. The IAH-LIM continued on to Santa Cruz, Bolivia. CO was also planning on have pax from IAH to SCL connect in LIM (to the EWR originating flight), and pax from EWR to Bolivia connect in LIM also. Bolivia and Chile were largley cut because CO was unable to land local traffic rights onward from LIM. Otherwise I believe the service would have been successful.

I think it is inevitable CO will return to those countries with CO's international expansionism......
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:46 pm

CO is the only US carrier to make a profit in Latin America, but I suspect they're not ready to take on service to either EZE or SCL. They don't like the profit prospects at the moment. The last presentation CO made to the analysts suggested double-digit growth in the Atlantic and Pacific, 1% growth to Latin America and none within the United States. While the Southern Tier could be a money maker, CAL would rather chase the big bucks over the Atlantic, where the profit margins are fatter.
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting Toxtethogrady (reply 26):
CO is the only US carrier to make a profit in Latin America


I very much dispute this statement.

I am sure AA makes large profits in its South American operations, which is reflected in the fact that AA uses its top product (B777) in three operations in the region: MIA-GRU; MIA-EZE; and JFK-GRU-GIG, which places these markets alongside destinations such as NRT and LHR.

As for UA, I am almost sure they are making a profit in their operations in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil. UA's loads to Brazil were over 85% year-around. Argentina has also produced excellent results for UA, many flights overbooked - note UA's B747 full pax used during Christmas holidays on the route ORD-EZE.

DL in its turn, increased flights to GRU to two daily, and DL Director presented numerous times very good results of DL operations in the region. Needless to say, DL plans to open a new route in the region in 2005: ATL-GIG.

Rgs,
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:41 pm

A bit off topic. Had a conversation with an ex Eastern Airlines Captain. When Eastern went belly up, he got a call, at the hotel, in Santiago. His chief pilot adviced him of the situation, and told him to find his way back to Miami. He took his whole crew, went to the AA counter, and asked for the jump-seat, for him and the whole crew. The AA Captain responded, CERTAINLY. To the AA Captain, if you read this- You are a GOOD man.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:58 pm

CO used to operate a daily DC10-30 service from EWR to SCL. The route was suspended, then the plan was to reinstate it, with a 757, operating an EWR-LIM-SCL routing, but the Peruvian government would not allow CO to carry local passengers (cabotage) on the LIM-SCL leg. The route was there fore abandoned.

There probably isn't sufficient demand for this service and CO is short on widebodies in that it continues to expand where it can make money. The recently awarded Beijing route will mean two of the 18 777's will have to be dedicated to this important and high profile (and most likely profitable) market. Two other 777's are dedicated to the EWR-NRT and EWR-HKG route (although EWR-HKG is not daily). The rest service primary European markets (CDG, AMS, LGW, MAD, and to TLV) where CO has connecting opportunities with SkyTeam partners (KLM, AF, etc..) or strong demand. I would think that the MAD route will be downgraded to a 767-400 to free up a 777 for Beijing later this year, and that there will not be any reinstatement of double daily EWR-TLV service, as has been the case off and on in years past. EWR-LGW will probably have one 777 and one 767 after the summer travel season. AMS is going double daily, with a 764 and a 762.

ContinentalEWR
 
klwright69
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:11 am

I think CO will retain the double daily TLV flight at least for the summer high season. I don't think they will reduce this (unless terrorism erupts in Israel again - remember that is what prompted CO to drop the 2nd daily). That route has been a star performer with no U.S. based competition to boot. They have really carved a niche in this market. One flight to TLV during the high season would not even come close to meeting that market's needs!

If anything I think CO will take the 777 off the FRA route. If memory serves CO has brought the 777 back to FRA.
 
hardiwv
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Klwright69 (reply 30):
If memory serves CO has brought the 777 back to FRA.


But apparently they also took off the 777 from the AMS-EWR route, now operating with the 767, correct? AMS-IAH is also 767 if I'm not mistaken.

Rgs,
 
latinaviation
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:14 pm

Quoting Juventus (reply 28):
A bit off topic. Had a conversation with an ex Eastern Airlines Captain. When Eastern went belly up, he got a call, at the hotel, in Santiago.



IIRC, AA purchased Eastern's routes to Latin America. I don't believe AA was operating to Santiago prior to Eastern going belly-up.
 
klwright69
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RE: UA Or CO Back To Chile?

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:24 am

LatinAviation, I too thought the same thing when I read that one....