FLYACYYZ
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AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:30 am

Air Canada to implement network and fleet realignment. Consistent with our previously announced restructuring plan and in order to achieve our profitability targets, Air Canada Jazz is boosting regional jet service to communities across Canada beginning with its summer 2005 schedule. These enhanced services at Jazz complement our growing network at the mainline as we expand to incorporate six additional Boeing 767 widebodies and 60 Embraer aircraft that will join our fleet beginning this year. The 767's are scheduled for service to international destinations, such as the Toronto-Rome route being introduced this summer, while the Embraer fleet will be deployed to increase frequency in current markets and for the start-up of new routes.

Air Canada Jazz is also growing with the addition of 15 Bombardier CRJ-705 aircraft to its fleet in May. An expanded Air Canada Jazz regional jet fleet will allow us to realign our network to ensure that we deploy the right aircraft type to meet travel demand in each market we serve. As the first generation of CRJ-100 allowed us to do in the Canada-U.S. transborder market almost 10 years ago, the arrival of these new generation regional jets is important as it will allow us to enhance service in many of our domestic markets by offering more comfort, choice in non-stop markets served and more frequencies than ever before.

With the realignment of our domestic netowrk, service will be provided EXCLUSIVELY by Air Canada Jazz in the following cities effective May 3 2005: Charlottetown (YYG), Saint John (YSJ), Moncton (YQM), Quebec City (YQB) and Thunder Bay (YQT); and effective October 1, 2005 in Regina (YQR), Saskatoon (YXE) and Whitehorse (YXY).
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FLYACYYZ
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AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:36 am

Make that 10 cities. Effective June 1st all AC service into IAH will be operated by AC Jazz, until such time that the Embraers make their way onto that route. Currently YYZ-IAH is operated by Jazz, and will be joined by YYC-IAH, as the 319's are redeployed elsewhere.
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ac7e7
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AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:52 am

This is great news. AC will be able to focus on Canada's main markets (YVR, YYC, YEG, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, YHZ, and YYT), as well as international destinations, including major U.S. markets.

I think a bunch of us should try and get a ticket on the first Jazz -705, and AC -175 and 190.

Could be fun...

-Brandon
 
FLYACYYZ
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AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:58 am

Unfortunately the good news won't be shared by the 300+ employees at those online stations who will be forced to transfer, accept severance or avail themselves to lay-offs. All aspects of ground handling will also be transferred over to ACJazz.
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ERJ170
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:03 am

aren't there supposed to be new destinations announced from YYC? has this occurred or is it still in the works? How about new destinations from YUL/YOW?
Aiming High and going far..
 
sebring
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:03 am

Unfortunately the good news won't be shared by the 300+ employees at those online stations who will be forced to transfer, accept severance or avail themselves to lay-offs. All aspects of ground handling will also be transferred over to ACJazz

C'est la vie. Some could always take the package and apply to work at Jazz. While they would earn entry level Jazz wages, they would be able to bank the package to supplement their pensions...
 
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Revelation
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:21 am

Looks like Anne of Green Gables will be flying Jazz to YYG!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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Samurai 777
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:16 pm

Quebec City? Hmmm, that is interesting. This is a city roughly the size of Winnipeg, or about 700K. I thought it gets at least A319s to YYZ.
 
ACYWG
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting Samurai 777 (reply 7):
Quebec City? Hmmm, that is interesting. This is a city roughly the size of Winnipeg, or about 700K.


The difference is that Winnipeg has a Maint. Center for mainline, as well as finance offices and a mainline crew base. AC has too much history in Winnipeg to pull the plug and go to only Jazz there, hell, AC's headquarters used to be in the Richardson building in downtown Winnipeg!
 
centrair
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:12 pm

Any word on if they will start up their YVR-NGO route again. It is on and off more often than Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony. It is still listed as NGO to North American routes at Chubu.
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sebring
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:16 pm

The difference is that Winnipeg has a Maint. Center for mainline, as well as finance offices and a mainline crew base. AC has too much history in Winnipeg to pull the plug and go to only Jazz there, hell, AC's headquarters used to be in the Richardson building in downtown Winnipeg!

AC also has a call centre in Wpg.

Any word on if they will start up their YVR-NGO route again. It is on and off more often than Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony. It is still listed as NGO to North American routes at Chubu.


It restarts in April and I believe it is daily.
 
imatams
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (reply 0):
With the realignment of our domestic netowrk, service will be provided EXCLUSIVELY by Air Canada Jazz in the following cities effective May 3 2005: Charlottetown (YYG), Saint John (YSJ), Moncton (YQM), Quebec City (YQB) and Thunder Bay (YQT); and effective October 1, 2005 in Regina (YQR), Saskatoon (YXE) and Whitehorse (YXY).


YXY has had only ACJazz-service since last summer, don't know what the May date means than, but it sounds like YXY won't see much change..

IM
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:49 pm

Quoting IMatAMS (reply 11):

YXY has had only ACJazz-service since last summer, don't know what the May date means than, but it sounds like YXY won't see much change..


The CRJs will be seasonally replaced with two daily A319s this June through October.
a.
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:28 pm

Centrair

This summer, AC009/10 is starting up to NGO from YVR. In mid-April, it will be a five time weekly basis but basically after that, they will offer daily service into NGO.
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EnviroTO
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:14 pm

If YXY is CRJ, why not serve YZF? Obviously they can't be carrying much cargo to YXY.
 
bmacleod
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:54 pm

Quite a surprise about YQM. Moncton has been growing at a steady pace with Canjet and Westjet in the past few years. I guess competition forced AC mainline out; well, no AC has only been using CRJs to YQM.
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md11dude
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:44 am

Yes, In the summer months, toursim literally explodes in Whitehorse. I can attest to the aircarft that serve this market. Condor now has two weekly flights in the summer with 763's---and AC pretty much has to switch to larger planes. I wonder How the competion will be, as Air north is apparently doing just fine on the YXY-YVR run with its 73's I hope they at least switch to the CRJ-700 next winter. The 200s are just too bloody small. And there range concerns me as well. Are they ER's?
CP979
 
yow
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:54 am

AC has too much history in Winnipeg to pull the plug and go to only Jazz there,

Plus the YWG-YYZ is just way too heavily travelled for mainline to ever abandon that route. Kinda surprising though to see YQB-YYZ not keep 1 or 2 daily 319s. Ditto for YQR/YXE-YYZ, would have thought that would have stayed mainline with the E75s/E90s.

Hopefully all these new CRJs will result in some new non-YYZ routes within the east or to the east.
 
ac7e7
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:16 am

This is exactly what analysts were pushing for. AC should only be serving major centres. The rest can go to Jazz with their lower pay scale and costs.

It looks like Gary Fane is sticking his nose into this and telling everybody that they are going to court over this (National Post, Feb 25/05).
 
lawgman
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting Yow (reply 17):
AC has too much history in Winnipeg to pull the plug and go to only Jazz there,

Plus the YWG-YYZ is just way too heavily travelled for mainline to ever abandon that route. Kinda surprising though to see YQB-YYZ not keep 1 or 2 daily 319s. Ditto for YQR/YXE-YYZ, would have thought that would have stayed mainline with the E75s/E90s.

Hopefully all these new CRJs will result in some new non-YYZ routes within the east or to the east.


Many of the cities they are downgrading to Jazz are Canjet (maritimes) or Westjet cities (sask.). I think running through Jazz is a great way to compete with the LCCs and is necessary for AC to continue to make profit (see Milton's presentations that are on AC's website).

Ultimately, part of the downgrade is resulting from AC's shift of the CRJs to Jazz as the new EMBs come on board. CRJ only cities will become Jazz only cities.

With respect to YWG and the differences between YWG and YQR, while there appears to be heavy YYZ/YWG traffic, ultimately, AC has no choice but to remain in YWG in full force. They are mandated by law to maintain operational and overhaul centres in Winnipeg (as a result of the politics involved in privitizing the airline).
 
Fiedman
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:12 am

Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:18 am

FIEDMAN...
No big deal bud..but both your posts came after the fact. A.netters love to play.."beat you to the punch".
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yyz717
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:09 am

Quite a surprise about YQM. Moncton has been growing at a steady pace with Canjet and Westjet in the past few years.

Ya. I'm also surprised about YQM. Also YXE/YQR. YYZ-YXE is currently 3 daily 319 (sometimes a 320 on one flight). They are being replaced with 4 daily CR7.

I wonder how many (if any) 320/319's AC is returning to lessors once this large fleet of CR7/E175/E190 fleet are delivered?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:54 am

Neil -

That remains the $64,000 question. According to the fleet plan, I don't think any A319's/A320's are scheduled for return in the next year.

Think major international expansion is in the cards, but has yet to be announced.

I would predict major Central America/Carribean/South America expansion in the works. With the US/transborder being basically flat, don't see major Airbus expansion happening.

My predictions:

Toronto/Bogota (Increased Service)
Toronto/Georgetown, Guyana (Previously announced)
Toronto/Salvador
Toronto/Guatamela
Toronto/Caracas (Restored Non-Stop Service)
Toronto/San Juan P.R. (Increased year round Service)
Toronto/Cancun (Daily year round Service)
Toronto/Panama City

Going to be alot of A319's/A320's liberated from this recent announcement. Any other route predictions?

[Edited 2005-02-25 23:59:15]
Above and Beyond
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:03 pm

Neil -

That remains the $64,000 question. According to the fleet plan, I don't think any A319's/A320's are scheduled for return in the next year.

Think major international expansion is in the cards, but has yet to be announced.


Wow. That is indeed major intl expansion! AC has some expiring 320 leases though that perhaps will result in some 320 being returned.

Toronto/Georgetown, Guyana (Previously announced)

I can't see more than 3x weekly at the most.

Toronto/Salvador
Toronto/Guatamela


As much as I ADORE the pro-Bush governments of El Salvadaor & Guatamala, I just don't see the demand for YYZ nonstops.

Toronto/Caracas (Restored Non-Stop Service)
Toronto/San Juan P.R. (Increased year round Service)
Toronto/Cancun (Daily year round Service)
Toronto/Panama City


It all makes sense to me. The yields would be good.

Going to be alot of A319's/A320's liberated from this recent announcement. Any other route predictions?

I just don't see these NEW cities providing enough new lift to justify all the 319/320 lift that is currently occupied on routes to YQM/YXE/YQR etc. AC has 16 320's dating from 90-91 leased frim GECAS/ILFC. I predict many of these will be quietly returned to the lessors. Otherwise, we are looking at a massive AC capacity increase. Perhaps YYZ-SAN again?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
sebring
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:52 pm

AC will indeed return some of its very oldest 320s to lessors. The 321 component (excluding the three 321s going back to Air France) are going to be stable, and I think they will return one 319 to a lessor. But up to a dozen 320s are scheduled, on paper, to be returned to lessors as the E-190s come in. There is net ASM growth to be sure, but not the equivalent of 75-plus Embraer and CR7s. Now, I am warned that if SG goes under, or if the transborder market recovers more smartly, all bets are off. AC is notorious for scrambling fleet plans. They are already looking for three more 763s to replace those 321s for a net increase of nine used 767s over the fleet plan that was in place six months ago.
 
yow
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:24 am

Once these 9 stations become all Jazz employees, will some of them continue to see mainline service, even at least on a summer seasonal basis, such as YXY? Is YYJ already all-Jazz even though they see mainline metal daily?
 
sebring
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:31 am

I can't tell you that for this summer. But it is entirely possible that many stations will see mainly CR7 service on routes formerly served by A319s. Then again, the fine print of the collective agreements will likely determine whether AC can operate a larger plane seasonally into a Jazz station. I can't tell you what those agreements say. One scenario advanced by a cynical employee is that AC will get rid of all the AC employees at these stations, mainly by getting to accept Voluntary Separation/Early Retirement packages, and then, after a year or two, "find a reason" to reactivate them with bottom-of-the-scale new AC employees.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:40 am

Once these 9 stations become all Jazz employees, will some of them continue to see mainline service, even at least on a summer seasonal basis, such as YXY? Is YYJ already all-Jazz even though they see mainline metal daily?

It seems so yes. The YYZ-YXE route goes from 3 daily 319 to 4 daily CR7. However, the 319/320 reappears on some summer weekends replacing one or more CR7 rotation.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:08 am

YXY has been Jazz since december, but all the employees are still mainline.

We had Canadi>n 737-200Adv 2 daily winter 3 daily in summer
then we had Air Canada take over Canadi>n, stayed the same for while
then we had Jazz 2-3 times a day with BAe146-200s
then we got ZIP with 2 daily 732 in summer 1 in winter (by this time Air North also had a daily 732 to YVR)
then in september ZIP was done, and it was changed to 1 daily A319.
since december to now we have had 2 daily CRJ200.

I really hope we get a change, because for a 2-2.5 hour flt the plane is too damn small. Complaints coming from pax and employees. Cargo was doing good here, Air North is occasionally sending HS748s to YVR in a cargo-only configuration because their 732 to YVR can't fit all the cargo they have going there. I have no idea why Air Canada shut down the cargo shed here, if they actually knew how to do it the way Canadi>n did they could make good money with it.

I don't know as much bout the rampers, but the gates/ticketing/checkin people are all retiring within the next 1-2 years, so most are either gunna commute to YVR, or they could do what my father is doing (he is retiring december) and he at this point it looks like they are just going to pay him for a month or two to stay home, because its cheaper than paying a move etc etc to get a few weeks work out of him.

I've heard rumors about A319s in summer, and I've also heard they are thinking of staying at 2x CRJ in winter and going 4-5x CRJ in summer, to try and beat Air North via having lots of frequencies (although Air North still has a real jet instead of a cheap regional jet on this 2+ hour flight). But yes whoever said tourism here explodes in summer is right. From may-september we have much much more people come though here than the rest of the year. People find in many parts of the Yukon half the town gets boarded up in september and opens up again in may.





CanadianNorth
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yul332LX
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting Sebring (reply 25):
They are already looking for three more 763s to replace those 321s for a net increase of nine used 767s over the fleet plan that was in place six months ago.


AC is reportedly looking for six additional 763s. Any idea where they might come from?

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/050224/e_airca_boostregiflig_1.html'"
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yow
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:30 am

CanadianNorth, is YXY's loading bridge capable of handling an aircraft as small as a CRJ, or can it only handle mainline sized aircraft? Whitehorse and the Yukon sure are a beautiful part of the country. I'd love to visit there again sometime.

Also does anyone here know if YYJ's employees are already all-Jazz, since YYJ sees a daily mainline flight to YYZ?
 
burnsie28
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:03 am

The Saskatoon and Regina cities kind of shocked me, hell NW flies mainline to those cities!
 
PacificWestern
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:43 am

It's been ages since Air Canada gave a flying fawk about Saskatoon and Regina.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:44 am

AC's collective agreement vis a vis mainline/jazz is a tricky one. To answer the previous post, despite having daily AC metal into YYJ, that station has been run by Jazz for years.

You can be sure that seasonal mainline upgrades will be seen regularly into YQB/YQR/YXE and YYG.

If the mainline carriers exits a station in favour of Jazz, the handling is done by Jazz staff in Canada, and usually contracted out in the USA. If in the future, the mainline returns to said station, a re-instatement of "true" AC staff is to take place. An example would be CLE. When AC and the DC9's left Cleveland in favour of Jazz, the staff was furloughed, and handling contracted out. The return of AC and CRJ's to that station, meant they once again had to recruit original AC staff, who were only later furloughed again, when business dipped, and the flights reverted to Jazz. On the other hand, ATL which has been pure Jazz for a while now maintained AC staff, perhaps believing that the mainline would return (and suspect the EMB's will show up on that route). IAH should be interesting, as of June 1st all flights will be Jazz operated, but suspect the EMB's will also operate there. Certainly hope they maintain our colleagues at IAH.

Despite the above rationale, not sure why YYJ didn't revert back to AC staff to support the mainline flights operating into that station.

YQR/YXE/YQB were the big shockers. Most likely an attempt to shelve 300 plus employees in favour of the lower paying Jazz. Just operated a whole round of the above flights--everything operating at 100% capacity. Mark my words, the mainline will be a regular visitor to the above 3 as well as YYG in the summer time. Currently AC mainline regularly sends down 319's/320's to MSY during holiday, Mardi Gras and to support large groups and convention traffic.

If I've totally confused you..think of how we feel!
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ERJ170
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:12 am

Okay FLYACYYZ...

RDU was an AC (mainline) market.. then it went to all Jazz RJ.. then it went to AC and JAZZ RJ.. soon to return to all JAZZ RJ for a few months then back to AC and JAZZ RJ.. later to change to AC Mainline E75 (supposedly).. but AC/JAZZ is handled by UAX/ZW here in RDU. So are you saying there will be/are AC employees handling these 3 daily flights.. or what?
Aiming High and going far..
 
Aviationman
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:44 am

Remember that the new YQB-YYZ schedule for the summer shows 8 x Jazz CRJ daily......compare to 5 (or maybe 4?). With regards to frequency, this is an improvement.

Cheers!

Marcel
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:34 am

ERJ170 -
With the open skies agreement way back in 1995, and the huge wave of transborder expansion, all "new" AC cities were staffed primarily with UA staff, with a few notable exceptions.

DFW (handled by DL, then later UA)
LAS (AMR ground services)

DCA continuously operated by AC staff.

All other stations past and present handled by UA staff:
PHX/SAN/SJC/ONT/DEN/AUS/MCI/RDU/CLT/GSO/CHS/JAX/MSY/STL/MKE/MSP
BNA/IAD/JFK...think that's most of them.
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ERJ170
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:39 am

So UA will continue to handle AC American flights at those stations, even if they return to mainline AC?
Aiming High and going far..
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Mainline Says Au Revoir To 9 Cities

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:12 pm

The staff reinstatement issue would only apply to AC scheduled online destinations prior to the 1995 open skies agreement as follows:

LGA
EWR
JFK
LAX
SFO
DFW
IAH
TPA
MIA
BOS
CLE
ORD

Somehow JFK and DFW (dormant reinstated station, and subsequently went to Jazz) circumvented the memo of understanding in the contract.
Above and Beyond