OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:20 pm

Never can find the checkbook when I need it...  Big grin

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ategory=63678&item=4530192011&rd=1
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4308
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:24 pm

Sheit, better get my ATP...
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
moman
Posts: 708
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:25 pm

Yip, $300,000 for the plane is probably the cheapest $300K you'll ever spend. I'll bet the thing burns $10,000 of gas in no time.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:31 pm

Not to mention the fact that it will probably need about $500k in service to get it airworthy, that is, if the maintenance was done according to FAA standards while it was in Africa. Then, you'll need two type rated pilots and a flight engineer. Their salaries should run upwards of about $150k per year on the low end. You'll need to find a place to store it. My FBO will rent the ramp space for about $3000 a month. If you like, you can put it in the hangar for about $20000 per month.

$300,000 for a plane that the seller can't give specific answers about. What a deal!! Sign me up!!  Big thumbs up
DMI
 
NIKV69
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:46 pm

I'm buying it!

Starting non-stop service FRG-ACY! Borgata here we come!  Big thumbs up


Why is it in ebaymotors?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
centrair
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:06 pm

John Travolta? Are you interested?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
bjg231
Posts: 157
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:23 pm

Well since the seller's last few auctions consisted of blue jeans, a sweater, and an ipod accessory, I'm a bit skeptical.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:06 pm

Thia looks seriously like a scam, I wonder if this is the same guy that is responsible for those Nigerian oil company letters and emails over the past 10 years asking people to help them smuggle money out of the country, that was another gem.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
flybeq400
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:16 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ola Carlsson
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Eduard Marmet




View Large View Medium
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Photo © Toni Marimon



This plane certainly has an interesting history!
 
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N707PA
Posts: 220
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:01 pm

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 7):
This looks seriously like a scam


Notice that the plane in the first photo has -219's and Winglets...........
 
LRGT
Posts: 675
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:04 am

This is not a scam but a rip off.

...If you paid $300,000, you would get the plane, but it is NOT WORTH $300,000!!!


I will say it is new for a 727 and has low hours and cycles, but -9A power engines that need overhaul? NO WAY $300,000. That is why no one is buying. You people don't understand how airplanes really depreciate.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
sunking737
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:14 am

Well, Lrgt many of us on this site work for the airlines, and have connections to Pilots, F/A's and most important Maintenance, among others. So I think we have an idea on whats is going on, and since you are just a kid. Go to your corner and take a time out.  Smile. Remember you have a profile so, we know about you!
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:17 am

Interesting, that is the San Jose Sabrecats 727 landing @ BFI, wonder who's shot that is
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
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RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:19 am

MSN 22165

1980 1984 I-DIRP Alitalia
1984 1987 N583PE People Express
1987 1991 N583PE Continental
1990 1995 N17413 Continental
1995 1996 N17413 ST LAS
1996 1996 5V-SBB Transtel
1996 1996 5V-TPA Air Dabia
1996 1996 5V-TPA Bemoair Praha
1996 1999 5V-TPA Air Dabia
1999 1999 5V-TPA Transtel
1999 1999 5Y-AXD African Airlines International

Dec 1999 siezed by the High Court of the Gambia

2000 2000 5Y-AXD The O Corporation
2000 N570C The O Corporation

Source the Jet Airliner Production List.

I am not a nervous individual, but the following would concern me.

1. Who are Transtel?.

2. Who are Bremoair Praha.

3. I am sure that I have heard of Air Dabia, which is worrying in itself.

4. Why was it siezed, and who are African Airlines International.

5. Any Gambian link, given the EU safety list.

6. Ebay says that it has been stored for several years, my guess is that it last flew in 1999. Gambia is not a normal storage site.

7. According to Ebay it has 40,268 Hrs on the clock, does anyone has a figure for when it was retired by Continental.

8. Incidentally, who is the O Corporation.

Personally, I would not touch it.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:46 am

Still no takers.

On the subject of Air Dabia. I am trying to find the current status of B747-122 C5-FBS MSN 19875 which seems to have been parked at Plattsburgh since 1999.

It seems that Air Dabia either folded or simply abandoned it.
 
LRGT
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:29 pm

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting Sunking737 (reply 11):
Lrgt many of us on this site work for the airlines, and have connections to Pilots, F/A's and most important Maintenance, among others. So I think we have an idea on whats is going on, and since you are just a kid. Go to your corner and take a time out. Smile


I love the way everyone in this industry thinks they no everything about complex areas of the industry the no nothing about. You SHOULD see that this Ebay seller may as well be asking: Does anyone want to buy a bridge???

Ok, i'm 23...your a little older...but I suspect your experience in unrelated areas of aviation has gone to your head.

NOW...how many 727's have you bought and sold? My guess is 0. I've sold 2 727-100C's and bought 1 727-200 pax (**OPERATABLE** with valuable -15 power), all profitable deals and I know what the market is for 727's, 737's, 767's, L1011's, and A310's. If someone pays $300,000, that is too much for this one. This is not even an ADV (as described) since it has -9A power, unless for some reason power was downgraded, which I suspect may be the case. However, it will never be upgraded back to -15 or -17 so calling it an ADV is quite useless.

The thing with the 727's pax is that they have 0 buyers and any chance of that changing has gone down the drain with newer aicraft types in surplus. And even if 1 buyer comes along, there are hundreds of them sitting. Even with 727C's and F's are nearly at 0 buyers now. This means that the value of an airframe can easily be negative. In this case even that low number of cycles will not save it from that. Now the engines are where the value (if any) will come from. -9A power is good and worth much more than -7A power even though it is only slightly superior. But the ad says they "need work"; that what dictates the value. Currently, there have been so many of the JT8D's on the market from retired aircraft that it is LESS EXPENSIVE to buy a new powerplant than overhaul the old one! So if these engines that are described as needing "work" need an overhaul, the plane and engines are worthless! I've seen 727's sell for $1 and I would NOT WANT to be the buyer since you are essentially paying for a liability. The market could come back around since supplies of these overhauled JT8D's are drying up and soon it will be again cheaper to overhaul. But if you were buying it only on hopes of the powerplants eventually becoming valuable, you could also buy worthless JT8D's in need of overhaul and hold them. You don't need the airplane; that will never be worth anything again. While there are no buyers of these airplanes, there will still be some existing operators still in need of spare engines after the surplus dries up.

I will give this seller a LOT of credit. If you have something that is worthless, BUT to 99.999999% of people it would appear to be a good deal at $300,000, what better place to sell it than Ebay??
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:56 am

People might give you more credit if your background was reflected in your profile.

That said, I am not surprised that this plane is not attracting a rush of buyers, particularly for $300K.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:06 am

In business you get what you pay for. I can go buy a piece of crap in the US for 300K also and don't have to worry about gov't corruption in Gambia.

This is still schetchy, and before you go off again, I was involoved in acquiring 2 727-200s in Australia and that fell apart because they were "where is as is"...I was 23 at that time too, I just remember asking that company over and over...where are the files?
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:29 am

ill pay 300,000 turkish lira for it  Smile

anyone remember the howard stern with the strippers and how he fooled them about being a millionaire? no? RATS!!
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
flybeq400
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:46 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:14 am

Lrgt,

You've seen B727's sell for a buck? Surely there's some scrap value in them - or does the costs of dismantling > value of scrap? Seems unlikely.
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:49 am

>>>Currently, there have been so many of the JT8D's on the market from retired aircraft that it is LESS EXPENSIVE to buy a new powerplant than overhaul the old one!

Pratt and Whitney is still manufacturing -new- JT8Ds?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ContinentalFan
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting OPNLguy (reply 20):
Pratt and Whitney is still manufacturing -new- JT8Ds?


I think he means new for the plane (but still an old engine pulled off another plane, not new new). It'd be like it being cheaper to put in an engine I pull off a car in the scrapyard than to fix the existing engine in my car, for example.
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:59 am

>>>I think he means new for the plane (but still an old engine pulled off another plane, not new new). It'd be like it being cheaper to put in an engine I pull off a car in the scrapyard than to fix the existing engine in my car, for example.

Oh, well, I guess so. Seems like a moot point in a way, since that "new" (as in overhauled engine) was previously in need of an overhaul, just like the "old" engines still hanging on the aircraft are probably in need of an overhaul. One pays for the overhaul, one way or another....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
POR2GAL
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:49 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:16 am

How does a guy on ebay go from selling jeans and jogging pants to selling a 727?!?

I smell a whole lot of salt cod on this one!!

Xiao!
Spotters, Inc.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:28 am

According to the ad, the owner is the O Corporation. Who are they?.

However, if you look at the ebay link, the owner is Wells Fargo.

I think that it would help to be clear exactly who does own this aircraft.

That said, I think that the points that I made in reply 13 still hold true.

Why would someone want to buy this aircraft.
 
alaskaairmd83
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:26 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:56 am

Hey it may be over priced but it also says no minimum bid at the bottom. I'll be the guy from The Price is Right game show and bid 1 dollar!!
 
LRGT
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:29 pm

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting ContinentalFan (reply 21):
I think he means new for the plane (but still an old engine pulled off another plane, not new new). It'd be like it being cheaper to put in an engine I pull off a car in the scrapyard than to fix the existing engine in my car, for example.


EXACTLY.



Quoting OPNLguy (reply 22):
Oh, well, I guess so. Seems like a moot point in a way, since that "new" (as in overhauled engine) was previously in need of an overhaul, just like the "old" engines still hanging on the aircraft are probably in need of an overhaul. One pays for the overhaul, one way or another....


They were put through overhaul by their owners when it was worth overhauling. Actually NW was still overhauling them up to a year ago for their DC9's and then they FINALLY realized that was not smart and closed their JT8D shop. Now that they are buying up all of the JT8D's around with time remaining on them, the supply is going to dry up soon and it will again be less expensive to overhaul than buy another.

Some engines out there with time remaining were overhauled by companies who did not know any better, but most were overhauled a couple years ago or came off retired aircraft. Most engines on retired a/c have cycles remaining to overhaul since they are typically retired at airframe MX intervals, not engine intervals.

P.S. I am glad people stopped posting comments about what a bargain it is!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting AlaskaAirMD83 (reply 25):
Hey it may be over priced but it also says no minimum bid at the bottom. I'll be the guy from The Price is Right game show and bid 1 dollar!!


Starting bid is $300,000...so you'd pay $300,001 for it.  Big grin
 
fuffla
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:41 pm

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:00 pm

I would not pay 300,000 Vietnamese Dong for it. Not becasue of the condition of the aircraft, but because of its history and the unexplained reason why it is in Gambia. (300,000VND = $19US)
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (reply 18):
ill pay 300,000 turkish lira for it

anyone remember the howard stern with the strippers and how he fooled them about being a millionaire? no? RATS!!


The segment was called "Turkish Millionaire" and I'm very certain that none of the strippers and any other bizarre contestants was fooled into believing they had become millionaires. I don't think you get the point of the show.  Smile

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
JHSfan
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:22 am

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:20 am

I have problems getting a hold on my opinion about the offers on eBay and this thread. Going to Gambia to buy an old 727 does not seem to be the most obvious thing to do if I want to find an old 727.

Look at Globalplanesearch.com -> Aircraft for Sale -> Airliners -> Boeing -> 727 / 727-100 / 727-200
There are a lot of 727 planes for sale in the US, so this eBay offer is not the only one around.
Buying a plane without inspection prior to signing the contract is a very easy way to loose a lot of money. I think that a number of replies are addressing essential questions regarding this offer.
Having tried myself to get a little wiser on the price of a used airliner, I have learned that it's not that easy to find the value of a plane. It simply depends on so many factors. No wonder that there are companies that offers their help when you want to buy an old plane.

Yours in realtime
JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
 
noelg
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: Got $300K Laying Around?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting Bennett123 (reply 24):
According to the ad, the owner is the O Corporation. Who are they?.
However, if you look at the ebay link, the owner is Wells Fargo.
I think that it would help to be clear exactly who does own this aircraft


Wells Fargo Bank act as a trustee for the 'real' owner of the aircraft. The O Corporation (who also sound like a trustee or an investment company) will pay Wells Fargo to act as the trustee, to hide the real owner of the aircraft.

Take a look at the FAA - Wells Fargo "own" hundreds of aircraft, however they are actually owned by the airline/leasing company beneath them.

Cheers,
Noel.

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