boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:57 pm

I know there was a post on this Capt. and the incident that occurred but was he disciplined by AA for his actions and arrest?



Also how big of a incident was this to AA and there relations at GRU?


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/14/finger.gesture.reut/
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:00 pm

I don't think AA did anything. They paid his fine, $12,775 US, and he was released and allowed to travel back to MIA pending the check clearing. AA brings revenue to Brasil with its flights to GIG and GRU, think they would be nicer to pilots coming in from their long trips.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:02 pm

BTW: What kinda a/c was he piloting into GRU when this happened?
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aa777jr
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:08 pm

AA has three daily flights from MIA-GRU:

AA # 929, 763
AA # 907, 763
AA # 995, 772
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (reply 2):
What kinda a/c was he piloting into GRU when this happened?

Wasn't it an A300?
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ETStar
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:13 pm

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 1):
I don't think AA did anything. They paid his fine, $12,775 US, and he was released and allowed to travel back to MIA pending the check clearing. AA brings revenue to Brasil with its flights to GIG and GRU, think they would be nicer to pilots coming in from their long trips.


I am sure they would be nicer if these pilots (and there was another one too!) were not so full of themselves, giving the finger to law officials! I am so glad he got punished, as he deserved it. No matter how much revenue AA brings in to the country, Brasil showed that respect is the utmost requirement. Too bad they did not put him into detention for longer than he stayed: 6 months minimum would have been enough. Aa777jr, try giving the finger to a US customs official, and see what will happen.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting 777ER (reply 4):
Wasn't it an A300?



I don't think they fly the A300 into GRU from MIA: unless is was an a/c sub.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
bennett123
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:03 pm

Serves him right.

Would he expect a Brazilian pilot to do this at JFK.
 
aa777jr
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:26 am

It's been stated on this forum many times the only reason the Brazilian government went to the extremes it did to photograph all Americans, including the US flight crews, was because the US Government started photographing Brazilian nationals entering the US on vacation. The US did it for security reasons, Brasil did it for spite. So a tired pilot raised his middle finger higher than the others while he held he super duper high tech Brazilian immigration card. Nothing happened to the pilot, he simply wasn't able to leave Brasil until the AA payment cleared for his fine. I could make a case either way.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:54 am

Well, well, well. The face (and finger) of the Ugly American abroad captured in all his glory. When will we ever learn once we leave our shores we're guests in other countries, and the rules of hospitality go both ways. I'd bet this errant pilot wasn't as disrespectful upon re-entering the U.S.
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cedarjet
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:08 am

"Try giving the finger to a US customs official, and see what will happen." We all know pretty much what would happen - you'd vanish for a very long time. On the other hand, I must disagree vehemently with AA777jr: "The US did it [fingerprinting] for security reasons, Brasil did it for spite." What a disgraceful and dishonest statement. Since when have Brazilian nationals posed any kind of security threat to the USA? I would say the US did it out of spite, Brazil reciprocated in it's own self-interest.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gnomon
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:33 am

Cedarjet --

The U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers in the United States was based on intelligence which seemed to indicate that al Qaeda terrorists would try to enter the United States through Brazil and a handful of other countries.

It's also well documented, in media reports, that the Brazilian policy was retaliatory for the inconvenience visited on its U.S.-bound citizens.

Whether or not you believe the United States government's stated reason is up to you.

If anything, Brazil is a valued trading partner with the United States. U.S. officials would not do anything "out of spite" to Brazilians entering this country, if for no other reason than to avoid jeopardizing the healthy economic interchange between the two countries. The United States articulated legitimate national security reasons for its policy; the Brazilian government, in return, articulated its irritation and disgust, validly or not. Those are the facts.

Edit: BTW, I agree with your comment about the consequences of disrespecting American immigration officials. Even as an American citizen, I've had my fair share of ridiculously unpleasant Customs and TSA experiences.

[Edited 2005-02-25 19:34:46]
 
cedarjet
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:42 am

Gnomon: "The U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers in the United States was based on intelligence which seemed to indicate that al Qaeda terrorists would try to enter the United States through Brazil and a handful of other countries." I don't know, in a normal world, the amount of trade Brazil does with the US would insulate it from stupid policies like fingerprinting tourists, but with the Neocons in DC, we're all in Bizarro World. One unsubstantiated bit of "intelligence" (lies more like, if the case against Iraq is anything to go by) and the entire nation of Brazil are treated like criminals. "Whether or not you believe the United States government's stated reason is up to you." Indeed it is, and I don't believe them. After blaming Iraq for 9/11 when we all knew it was Saudi, and saying Iraq had WMD when we all knew it was a lie, I have no choice but to disbelieve everything the US gov't says and does. This may seem blindly "anti-American" (I'm not, I've spent enough time over there to even have a trace of an American accent), but it's simply a case of looking at past behaviour and making a rational judgement, which is: they're all bullshitters.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gnomon
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:57 am

Cedarjet --

I'll agree with you on two points:

1.) The administration hasn't always acted rationally with respect to ensuring that security policy clicks with foreign trade (see the EU steel tariffs fiasco last year); and

2.) No terrorists, to anyone's knowledge, have ever entered the United States via Brazil. Maybe the U.S. policy stopped them; maybe there never was anyone to stop. I guess we'll never know.

That said, regardless of the unreasonableness of Brazil's policy, I do think the AA pilot acted equally boorishly, so I agree with you there, too. Just wanted to get the facts on the record.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2005-02-25 20:03:00]
 
incitatus
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:27 pm

Look at what Immigration does in Brazil: they fingerprint, photograph, then do what with it? Zilch! Nada! Niente! Nothing! Pas! The officer likely presses the delete button after each US passport holder goes through the process. This is done with public money, in a country that cannot afford waste. Equipment & labor being consumed every day. Kids could be educated with this money!

Then Mr. Dale comes along and gives the whole system the finger. All power to him!
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FLY2LIM
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting Incitatus (reply 14):
Look at what Immigration does in Brazil: they fingerprint, photograph, then do what with it? Zilch! Nada! Niente! Nothing! Pas! The officer likely presses the delete button after each US passport holder goes through the process. This is done with public money, in a country that cannot afford waste. Equipment & labor being consumed every day. Kids could be educated with this money!


The United States is a sovereign nation and creates its own laws. Brazil is a sovereign nation and creates its own laws. That is the way life is, and no one can sit here and judge a nation.
Having said that, a foreigner comes into a country and gives a government official the internationally known symbol for "f**k you" (I don't like to curse but I'm making a point) and he becomes subject to the laws that govern said country. The captain took the stereotypical "arrogant American" attitude and it cost his employer quite a bit of money and bad publicity. He was lucky, perhaps, that Brazil wasn't more punitive. Does anyone remember the American/British minor who was caught spraying graffiti all over Singapore? He was caned five times in public. And then, there are the stories of the drug dealers who are caught in Muslim countries and have their limbs cut off, or are executed.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
FLY2LIM
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AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:21 pm

Going back to the incident. The Brazilian airport officials probably did something stupid to make the crew angry and less complient. I really don't think that the crew would want to argue with officials after a long flight as they would probably be in a hurry to get into the hotel.
 
ETStar
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:36 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (reply 16):
Going back to the incident. The Brazilian airport officials probably did something stupid to make the crew angry and less complient. I really don't think that the crew would want to argue with officials after a long flight as they would probably be in a hurry to get into the hotel.


You have no idea how many times US airport officials do something stupid to make me and many other crew angry. Do I raise my middle finger? No! Respect, is what it's all about. And buddy Dale ain't got any. Stop coming up with excuses for him.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:43 pm

I don't care about all the red tape and bs you ppl talk of........I wanted to know if AA disciplined this pilot that's all. J/C stay on topic.

From the posts I've read you ppl know nothing about the topic but want to only piss and moan about the reasoning for the U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers and vs verse. If I want to know that I'll google the reasoning for that.

This is a AVIATION forum not a political one.  Angry  Angry

So no one knows for sure?
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redflyer
Posts: 3882
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:55 pm

BoeingFever777:

Very well articulated. I was shocked at seeing such political comments on here given that I paid money to be part of an informative and factual aviation forum. Instead, I find myself reading through such boorish and childish political diatribe.

If I wanted to talk politics I could have just as easily joined a political forum and pointed out to everyone how the U.S. is at least attempting to clean up the global mess we live in currently and which was created originally by a number of European powers in the last two centuries, in particular France, Great Britain, Spain and let's not forget Germany.

Mmmm...interesting how those four also make up a socialist entity called Airbus.

"Can we we all get along?"
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airgeek12
Posts: 725
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:00 pm

So AA just paid his fine and let him resume his job? I know it is sort-of a misdemeanor, but still. And it gives American Airlines a bad image. If you ask me I think he got let off the hook a little to easy.

geek
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (reply 9):
When will we ever learn once we leave our shores we're guests in other countries, and the rules of hospitality go both ways


I couldn't agree with you more! That type of attitude will surely allow you to make friends the world over.
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ

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