PlaneGuy27
Topic Author
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FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:59 pm

I know that most of us read the AirTran Airways press release about Charlotte and immediately thought, Hmmm....they aren't the only low-cost carrier in Charlotte, Independence is already there....

Well now look what popped up in the charlotte observer

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/10940779.htm

Rival protests AirTran claim

Independence Air says Charlotte already has a low-fare carrier

TONY MECIA
Staff Writer

Hey, who you calling a high-fare carrier?

Independence Air on Friday said it will "consider legal action" against AirTran Airways, after AirTran sent out a news release proclaiming AirTran as the "only low-fare carrier serving Charlotte." A banner at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport on Thursday made the same claim.

Independence Air, considered by most in the industry to be a low-fare carrier, started flights to Charlotte from its Washington hub in October. Fares to its hub are as low as $118 round-trip, the same price AirTran is charging to its hubs in Atlanta and Baltimore.

"We still don't know whether they have made this error out of ignorance or dishonesty, but either way, it's completely unacceptable to us, and absolutely untrue," said Independence spokesman Rick DeLisi.

In response, AirTran spokesman Tad Hutcheson implied that Independence will not be around in the future, a concern shared by some industry analysts because its expenses have been higher than its revenues.

Hutcheson said: "In order to offer low fares long-term, you have to be a low-cost carrier. We are a low-cost carrier and can offer low fares."
 
atrude777
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:12 pm

Hmmh, what a nice way to predict your fellow competitors by saying they won't be around in time. Fact is..Indy IS there, and they ARE a LCC. Simple as that, AirTran is at fault for this, but I don't think FlyI should be sueing them or anything of the sort, fi they are smrat they will release a press release celebrating CLT, like FL did at PHL, when WN had started service.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
NUAir
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:15 pm

"In response, AirTran spokesman Tad Hutcheson implied that Independence will not be around in the future, a concern shared by some industry analysts because its expenses have been higher than its revenues."

As much as I agree with him the ad did say low-fare not low-cost airline and its not saying they are the "only low-fare airline serving Charlotte in the future" its saying right now.



Pay Indy the $10 and get on with life.  Insane
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
PHLBOS
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:55 pm

Maybe FL can insert one word in its CLT ad/slogan for clarification:

The only low-fare Boeing carrier serving Charlotte.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Bicoastal
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:05 am

Independence Air is not a Low COST Carrier. They are (defying basic economics) a Low FARE Carrier with HIGH costs.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
starrion
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:05 am

Airtran should just tell the truth: We thought FlyI would be gone by the time this ad campaign came out. We were disagreeably surprised to see them still here when our campaign came out. We expect this problem to fix itself soon enough.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
DAYflyer
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:18 am

If Airtran has lower fares, there could be a smidgen of truth to the claim....
One Nation Under God
 
as739x
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:16 am

Starrion....It would have been funnier if US would have come out and said " We are very sorry, we kind of forgot about them! There not out of business already?"

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
as739x
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:17 am

One more thing. On the subject if FlyI's furture. We have running bets at SFO about wether we will actually ever see there planes land May 1st. I voted against it!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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casinterest
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting AS739X (reply 8):
We have running bets at SFO about wether we will actually ever see there planes land May 1st. I voted against it!


Well,
If there current predictions for Feb and March hold up, I think you are going to loose that bet. There have been a lot of crazy questions about what is going to happen this year. So far US Airways is still alive, United is still alive, and Indy is still alive. However, Southwest and Airtran seem to be continuing the cannibalization of US Air money routes.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Gnomon
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:04 am

I think Independence Air has bigger problems to worry about than costly litigation over a couple of banners and a news release.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:19 am

If IAir was smart, they would fire back with we are the only "Ultra Low Fare" carriers in Charlotte. This isn't even close to the worst thing I've even seen in advertising. iAir-Get over it and fire back.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:32 am

Man, Tad sure does speak his mind on the Indy comments he made. I personally give Indy a little more chance than that.

Eitherway, it was a sales pitch and I also believe Indy shouldn't waste their resources legally on this one, just fight back with thier own marketing/PR campaign.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
qwerty
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:38 am

People,

This is a smart move by Indy. They are not going to sue anyone. They barely have enough $$$ to pay lawyers to keep them out of Chapter 11, much less $$$ to pay for Jet A.

This is in-the-trenches marketing to get PR. And it worked. Y'all are talking about Indy and Charlotte.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Bicoastal (reply 4):
They are (defying basic economics) a Low FARE Carrier with HIGH costs.


...US Airways and United are evolving toward the same -- in spite of billion$ in labor concessions they have wangled from behind the cover of bankruptcy laws that are nothing short of inherently corrupt, or have been corrupted by the manner in which the provisions of the law have been applied.
 
qwerty
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (reply 14):
...US Airways and United are evolving toward the same -- in spite of billion$ in labor concessions they have wangled from behind the cover of bankruptcy laws that are nothing short of inherently corrupt, or have been corrupted by the manner in which the provisions of the law have been applied.



Sure beats assured unemployment. But finding a better job beats even that.

There is no guarantee of employment anywhere in the U.S. code you seem to despise. If you don't like being a ticket agent with a major carrier, QUIT!
 
flashmeister
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:52 am

It worked? At the same time we talk about Indy and Charlotte, we're also talking about Indy's (lack of a) financial status and laughable claim to be a low-cost carrier.

Not sure what worked here.
 
qwerty
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:54 am

Point out more than 2 airlines that are financially secure. The public knows the nature of the beast.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:55 am

Very cheap lawsuit & certainly a way to get some media attention Independence Air
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ACAfan
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:55 am

This is being reported in the Charlotte Observer.

Since this news story is not negative in relation to Indy, the cheap publicity is really good.

Who needs full page ads when the newspaper tells everyone in Charlotte that:

a) Independence exists
b) Independence is a low fare airline

Indy has nothing to lose by causing a fuss.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
elwood64151
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting Qwerty (reply 13):
This is in-the-trenches marketing to get PR. And it worked. Y'all are talking about Indy and Charlotte.


You're absolutely right. They're going to "consider legal action." Meaning they've already considered it and decided against it...



As for if INDY will still be around in a year, I'm not convinced either way what's going to happen to them. If you know anything about the fall of Vanguard, you know that it was the success of the airline that actually killed it. Credit card companies became concerned about protecting themselves against a bankruptcy (as good Finance people do) and so began forcing the collateralization of 125% of its sales. In other words, we went into a negative cash-flow situation as sales increased to the point of profitability! INDY could easily suffer a similar fate...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
airtran737
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:08 am

Screw Indy Air. The may charge low fares, but their costs are high. Therefore it is a correct thing to say that AirTran is the only LCC in town. If We had said that we are the only low fare carrier then Indy Air may have something to cry about. Kudos to Tad for speaking his mind regarding his feelings towards Indy Air.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Russophile
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:29 am

If We had said that we are the only low fare carrier then Indy Air may have something to cry about.

You did. They are 'crying' about it and have every right to.
 
elwood64151
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting Russophile (reply 22):
If We had said that we are the only low fare carrier then Indy Air may have something to cry about.

You did. They are 'crying' about it and have every right to.


Here, here.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
srbmod
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting Bicoastal (reply 4):
Independence Air is not a Low COST Carrier. They are (defying basic economics) a Low FARE Carrier with HIGH costs



Exactly. The last time I checked, the 717 has lower operating costs than a CRJ, and even with a handful of A319s, they still have the highest operating costs for a LCC.


Well Independence could say that they are the only LCC to Washington D.C. (That is if you don't consider BWI to be a D.C. area airport.).
 
elwood64151
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting Srbmod (reply 24):
Exactly. The last time I checked, the 717 has lower operating costs than a CRJ, and even with a handful of A319s, they still have the highest operating costs for a LCC.


But we're not talking about costs, are we? AirTran chose its words poorly, and even saying they are the only Low Cost Carrier would have been argumentative.

But as I said before, Indy won't sue. It's not worth it. Plus, they've already got their name in the papers, so who needs any more than that?
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
kaputt
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:47 am

"If We had said that we are the only low fare carrier then Indy Air may have something to cry about.

You did. They are 'crying' about it and have every right to."


yep, yep

think before you bash(AirTran737)  Big grin
Carpe the Diem...Seize The Carp
 
qxq400
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:53 am

I say go for it Indy air. You got to get some money to stay alive were you can.

US air are you listening, just sue the other airlines for exsisting!

Get real Indy air like US air your days are numbered.
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
airtran737
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:56 am

I meant to type "low cost carrier" not low fare. I was in a bit of a hurry. Apoligies.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
hawaijahaz
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:15 am

Well the top guys at AirTran and FLYi could have an arm wrestling match.
If AirTran wins, they get to keep their ad.
If FLYi wins, AirTran has to take it down.

 Smile

PG
 
legendDC9
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Qwerty (reply 13):
This is in-the-trenches marketing to get PR. And it worked. Y'all are talking about Indy and Charlotte.


And I am sure this is getting a huge buzz outside this post and the 30 people who have responded (including me, I'll give you that).
I have already seen Indy planes operating for UA (color only, no indy logos), they are about to go away and FL is just playing with them, it's just to show how insignificant Indy is.
 
717-200
Posts: 564
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:08 am

I guess FlyI must subscribe to PT Barnum's ol' saying "Any publicity is good
publicity"
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
avek00
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:19 am

Who cares what Indy Air thinks about the advertising- they will be long dead before the case could be subjected to a summary judgment motion, let alone a trial.
Live life to the fullest.
 
NWADC9
Posts: 3938
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:33 am

And here's a favorite saying in schools nationwide that fits perfectly here:
"FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!"

Sorry, couldn't resist Big grin
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
sprout5199
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:35 am

This sounds like "gee what is written on my coffe top? its HOT?" how dare you sell me hot coffee

I guess the now if the first word out of your childs mouth is "I'll sue" then you have a smart kid.

Dan in Jupiter
 
Boeing73G
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting NUAir (reply 2):
"In response, AirTran spokesman Tad Hutcheson implied that Independence will not be around in the future, a concern shared by some industry analysts because its expenses have been higher than its revenues."


This is completely insane! Independence Air should be worrying about their finances, employees, and planes rather then some false advertising!  Nuts

I do have to agree with FL, though. From now on, why don't you consider calling Flyi a niche carrier?  Innocent
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:11 pm

I have 1 thing to say about this....

We're talking about it!


They are doing this to get into the news. A WN or FL (in reverse situation, that is), which are financially secure airlines, would put out a blurb, but Indy has to drag this out for the advertising. Anything to lure a customer, right?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
allstarflyer
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:35 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (reply 21):
Screw Indy Air. The may charge low fares, but their costs are high. Therefore it is a correct thing to say that AirTran is the only LCC in town. If We had said that we are the only low fare carrier then Indy Air may have something to cry about. Kudos to Tad for speaking his mind regarding his feelings towards Indy Air.


Hmm. As frivolous as it seems, I don't think the higher ups of Indy would have filed suit against AirTran unless they had something substantial on which to go. But, of course, they probably won't pursue it much further, like Qwerty mentioned:

Quoting Qwerty (reply 13):
People,

This is a smart move by Indy. They are not going to sue anyone.


But the effect, like ACAfan mentioned, may be good for DH:

Quoting ACAfan (reply 19):
Since this news story is not negative in relation to Indy, the cheap publicity is really good.

Who needs full page ads when the newspaper tells everyone in Charlotte that:

a) Independence exists
b) Independence is a low fare airline

Indy has nothing to lose by causing a fuss.


Tad sounds like a real tough guy  Insane. Maybe we should all contact him with our questions about the future of the airline industry, and,  Laugh out loud why not, sports, the political realm, horoscopes and anything else that might concern us.

With plenty of people predicting the demise of US and UA for so long, they're still kicking, so it's not so bad to hear some folks predicting the demise of DH. I'm optimistic, but, yeah, we'll just have to wait and see.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
airgeek12
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Yikes.. Get 'em i!! lol.
 
darrell
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:31 pm

Personally, I hope FlyI does very well in the future. I have a roundtrip ticket with them on Mar 9th CHS-LAS, and I recently bought 500 shares of stock with them.
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
LRGT
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (reply 18):
Very cheap lawsuit & certainly a way to get some media attention Independence Air


No way...with a 0% chance of winning, they are only throwing $$ out the window. What is their cause of action in this suit? There is none!

I own 3,000 shares of AirTran stock and I am glad they are making some over-the-top statements. Their statment here reminds me of Donald Trump promoting his new buildings (the biggest, best, most amazing views, most luxurious, tallest, etc. "in the world")...It seems to work for him. If AirTran took this to a bigger extreme my stock would go up to valuation levels close to JetHype.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
StowAway
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting Lrgt (reply 40):
I own 3,000 shares of AirTran stock and I am glad they are making some over-the-top statements. Their statement here reminds me of Donald Trump promoting his new buildings (the biggest, best, most amazing views, most luxurious, tallest, etc. "in the world")...It seems to work for him. If AirTran took this to a bigger extreme my stock would go up to valuation levels close to JetHype.


I guess honesty isn't the best policy for AirTran? Well, I won't be flying them anytime soon. An incident like this sounds like something United would do.

Look at the press this way: Independence is now seen as the underdog compared to AirTran in regards to the Charlotte press. People most ALWAYS root for the underdog. AirTran looks dishonest. Plus, Tad's comments smack of arrogance. No airline can afford to be arrogant in these times. Hell, Indy was arrogant at startup, and look where they are!

The fact is that AirTran made an assumption. You know what they say happens when you assume.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
flyibaby
Posts: 717
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:16 pm

I don't know if I would agree that this was done to create buzz for DH or not. I will say however, that no matter who the airline is, there does need to be truth in advertising as in all such businesses. I believe that this all boils down to business ethics. AirTran can gloat if they want over their success, they've certainly earned it with their Bethune styled management since the days of Valuejet. What we should all know now however is that FLYi has been made solvent for a year with their re-neogitations in large part to having a savy financial team that saw the errors of their ways and corrected them without a judge's help. Yes, they entered the market at a volitale time, but at least give them the credit they deserve for as far as they have come in launching an airline over the past what 9-10 months. Geez.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting StowAway (reply 41):
Look at the press this way: Independence is now seen as the underdog compared to AirTran in regards to the Charlotte press. People most ALWAYS root for the underdog. AirTran looks dishonest. Plus, Tad's comments smack of arrogance. No airline can afford to be arrogant in these times. Hell, Indy was arrogant at startup, and look where they are!


I agree. I would certainly give Tad(what kind of name is that?) a good talking to, as you don't go swinging your d*ck around the room unless you be assured its the biggest. Maybe Airtran is talking smack because they feel a little intimidated by Indy because they have stuck around for so long and maybe(even though we all agree its a long shot and don't believe it) pull through.

I kind of like the arm wrestling idea. I have seen Tad Hutcheson and he's not a big guy. Hell, I could take him in an arm wrestling match.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
StowAway
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:48 am

RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:50 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (reply 43):
I would certainly give Tad(what kind of name is that?) a good talking to, as you don't go swinging your d*ck around the room unless you be assured its the biggest.


That's priceless



....also good advice.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
swadispatcher
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:12 am

RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:31 pm

Quoting Hawaijahaz (reply 29):
Well the top guys at AirTran and FLYi could have an arm wrestling match.


Herb already did that stunt years ago.. "Malice In Dallas"
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:54 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (reply 43):

I have seen Tad Hutcheson and he's not a big guy. Hell, I could take him in an arm wrestling match.

Actually Tad is about 6'3" and 275 lbs. I don't know where you saw him, but that wasnt Tad. A link to Tad's bio is below

http://www.prnewswire.com/airtran/bios/tad_hutcheson.shtml
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting OttoPylit (reply 43):
I have seen Tad Hutcheson and he's not a big guy. Hell, I could take him in an arm wrestling match.


Ottopylit,
Now where did you see him? I'm 6-2 and he still towered above me in height. I would recommend 10 years of heavy ATL ramp work to train before the match.

Very, very funny, but might be a good idea to think before posting.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
kaputt
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:04 am

RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:44 am

HA! Well theres always a chance OttoPylit could be a 6'6" or taller.  Laugh out loud
Carpe the Diem...Seize The Carp
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
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RE: FLYi May Take Legal Action Against AirTran

Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:59 am

Kaputt hit the nail right on the head. Airtran and Midway have no idea who I am or how big I am. I rest my case and still, I say I could take the guy. I said I could beat the guy in an armwrestling match. Keep in mind, I never said anything about a fistfight or mudwrestling match, which is something Tad may enjoy. lol


Otto
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.

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