Tango-Bravo
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Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:42 am

Northwest has earned "kudos" from me for "thinking outside the box" with its apparently successful focus city concept implemented so far at MKE and IND.

What is the latest word from NW on their consideration of making PIT another of their focus cities?

Have they announced any other cities they may be considering for their focus city concept?

What city(ies) IYHO would be good candidates for NW to consider as future focus cities if MKE and IND continue to prove successful?
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:49 am

Although NW deserves credit for implementing their supposedly successful focus cities it is by no means a NW invention. In fact, I believe the term "focus city" first came into vogue by the late TWA. Hardly "out of the box" thinking but gutsy nonetheless. As far as new focus cities, I heard of two lately STL and PDX.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:57 am

My guess is that they will continue to build IND and to a lesser extent MKE. There still are a couple holes on the route map that NW could fill out of IND, and I'd look for them to do that first.

Quoting DL Widget Head (reply 1):
As far as new focus cities, I heard of two lately STL and PDX.


I would be hard pressed to believe that they would open a focus city in St.Louis. Their gate situation is terrible at best, and given AA's apparent recent success in St.Louis, I would have to believe they would defend their turf.

Portland, on the other hand, seems like a fairly sensible candidate already having flights to places like HNL and NRT. Throw in MEM, a couple token Florida tourist destinations and you have yourself a small focus city.

Omaha and Grand Rapids were mentioned in some previous posts as well...
 
nwa man
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:01 am

Rumor has it that MSN, DSM, and CMH are in the mix as well, in addition to the cities LambertMan named. Think Heartland (and PDX) or don't think at all.


Regards,

N-Dub
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lvkewlkid
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:22 am

I think PDX who'd be a good option.
 
iowaman
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:33 am

Routes that would probably do good:

OMA-LAX
OMA-FLL
DSM-LGA,JFK, or EWR.
DSM-LAX
 
B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting LambertMan (reply 2):
Omaha and Grand Rapids were mentioned in some previous posts as well...


GRR has received non-hub NW service for about a year now with GRR-MCO and GRR-TPA. GRR-DCA starts later this year on NWAirlink Avro. They may do more NWAirlink routes here - BOS possibly (IMHO).

=====

PDX is a tough one. I think PDX is anxious for a carrier to come and offer a strong schedule. It is pretty far from most NW hubs. NW's current focus city movements (IND, MKE, little-GRR) are all within 600 miles of DTW, MSP, and MEM.

Southwest and Alaska have a strong schedule @ PDX, so I'd lean more on NRT connections on NW and possibly AMS if someone breaks out the crack-pipe.

=====

NW has added LAX-LAS. This is a tough route with WN and UA offering mind-numbing frequencies between the two. But, consider that NW @ LAX has HNL, NRT, LAS, MKE, and IND. Maybe build a few more destinations from LAX and you have a focus city. Which would be a much needed focus city on the West coast for SkyTeam.

That's my goal. A pioneering concept... A domestic SkyTeam hub @ LAX. You've got KE, KL, NW, DL, CO, AM, AF, all flying to LAX. (AeroFlot as well once there membership is complete). Have CO, DL, and NW bump the flights up there @ LAX and take codesharing to the next level and that would be sweet - IMHO. Only problem with this is WN and DL has cut some recent flights from LAX - MEX in particular, as well as many former Western routes over the years. So, the routes would have to be selected in such a fashion to be strong against the heavy competition @ LAX.

Maybe I'm the one with the crack pipe dreams.....

B4
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Trvlr
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:44 am

NW has added LAX-LAS. This is a tough route with WN and UA offering mind-numbing frequencies between the two. But, consider that NW @ LAX has HNL, NRT, LAS, MKE, and IND. Maybe build a few more destinations from LAX and you have a focus city. Which would be a much needed focus city on the West coast for SkyTeam.

I believe LAX-LAS was started because of cruise ship traffic. I doubt you'd see it without those contracts. Still, LAX is a pretty diverse operation at this point.

Aaron G.
 
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Trvlr (reply 7):
I believe LAX-LAS was started because of cruise ship traffic. I doubt you'd see it without those contracts.


Trvlr:

Explain the cruise contracts please. Why I ask is b/c the flight times are peculiar. It's not a day trip as part of the cruise stop. Is it a add-on to the cruise? Thanks a bunch.

B4
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting Trvlr (reply 7):
believe LAX-LAS was started because of cruise ship traffic. I doubt you'd see it without those contracts. Still, LAX is a pretty diverse operation at this point.


Actually, it was added because it provided good connection times for the NRT-LAX traffic, not criuse ships. Started off as a DC9, then went to a 319, and now is a 320.
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RWA380
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:27 am

NW would do well in Portland, add an Amsterdam flight and a few domestic routes, there would be a good market to Asia and using the code share on AS/QX they would feed a lot of traffic and avoid the foggy season at SEA-TAC. PDX has very few problems due to weather, it happens, but not like SEA
The runways can sure handle the aircraft, even with full loads, and the terminal can handle the traffic, there is some good space on D still. NW should take up where DL failed, and then they could live up to their name sake, and truly be a Northwest airline. They just added NRT and HNL not too long ago,
and also OGG and KOA via SEA on QX codeshare.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
burnsie28
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:10 pm

Yes the LAX-LAS are for connections from NRT, however, you can buy a ticket from LAX-LAS-LAX on NW, except for the fact, that most of the time the plane is sold out from connecting traffic.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:49 pm

Trvlr,

Actually the LAS-LAX is for NRT connections not cruise ships. The LAS-LAX is usally packed in.
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B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:54 pm

LAS-LAX on NW does not seem to 'marry' with LAX-NRT on routing.

Returning, it works out just great going NRT-LAX-LAS.

If they can sell the O&D LAX-LAS - rock on NW.
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Spoke2Spoke
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:17 am

How is Northwest fueling this expansion? I don't believe they're taking narrowbody deliveries. Are they utilizing their fleet for more segments each day?

We're seeing airlines like CO and US attempting to boost profitability by growing their international destinations. Northwest seems to be growing more on domestic routes. How do you think this will pan out as they grow into more markets with high-levels of low-cost competition?

Spokes
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting B4real (reply 6):
...Alaska have a strong schedule @ PDX


Since Northwest has a well-established codeshare relationship with Alaska Airlines and Horizon, PDX would perhaps be all the more attractive to NW as a possible focus city. With the transcon range of the "right size" A319 equipment that NW favors on many of their mainline-operated flights to/from focus cities, any destination in the continental U.S. could be served non-stop from PDX.
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:04 am

How about an MKE-AMS?  Smile

I can dream, can't I? Big grin
 
B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting Longhaulheavy (reply 16):
How about an MKE-AMS?

I can dream, can't I?


Yes, you're simply sharing the crack pipe with me  Smile

Quoting Tango-Bravo (reply 15):
Since Northwest has a well-established codeshare relationship with Alaska Airlines and Horizon


Tango, you are on to something. Alaska is also making inroads with DL in codesharing relationships. So maybe PDX would be a good focus city. My only concern, however, is that AS (and HA) have, historically, been a little on the neutral side of things. Meaning, they'll go for codeshares and partnerships with all airlines - simply because their routes in Alaska are unchallenged.

I wonder if taking that stronger step closer would not be in the best interest of AS to do such. Maybe the step too far would be a SkyTeam membership (but maybe not the SkyTeam associate membership - which we have yet to have a member of that status....).
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B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:52 pm

Some more info on PDX, NW may be planting the 'focus city' seed in PDX, as there is a HNL-PDX flight operated with a 757-300 a/c. I didn't notice this flight. They've already got MSP and DTW. MEM would be the next logical choice. Build it up a bit with AS, DL, CO, and HA, and you have a co-operative focus city. Good positioning no the West Coast as NW/CO/DL need help out West.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:42 pm

NW has steadily taken delivery of CRJ's, which have allowed for much of this focus city expansion. The narrowbody flights have come from increased fleet utilization.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (reply 19):
NW has steadily taken delivery of CRJ's


Sure, the DC-9s are starting to go away as well. I think a lot of small markets are going to be upset that they will be losing two class NW service...
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting NWA Man (reply 3):
Rumor has it that MSN, DSM, and CMH are in the mix as well


N-Dub, I was thinking about CMH, and I agree with you there. CMH is a good market to try to start something, but DL seemed to offer some point to point flights. I believe it is initially successful, as DLConnection now offers CMH-BDL as a new flight after the schedule overhaul.

If DL ever stopped their focus city action @ CMH, I think NW could jump all over that...
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Chugach
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:48 pm

Although maybe not a traditional focus city, NW has a very diverse operation at HNL: Nonstop to ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, and MSP. Also, do they fly HNL-NRT?
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NWAFA
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:51 pm

Chugach,

NWA was the 1st carrier ever to fly HNL-NRT, sadly we are down to just two flights a day from 4.
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:53 pm

We also fly HNL-KIX daily
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NWAFA
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:56 pm

Jetjack,

Again, sadly HNL-Kix is down to one daily flight from three! No more HNL-NGO, HNL-FUK or HNL-SPN. Miss those trips!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Meteorologist
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:39 pm

I'm not so sure about the NW expansion of MSN into a focus city. Given Allegiant's recent inroads there with the n/s to LAS, my thoughts are that the one n/s daily to DCA is about all MSN will see for now. In fact, if you look at it, NW has slowly turned DCA into somewhat of a focus city operation. By summer, they'll be doing n/s to DTW, MSP, MEM, GRR, MKE, MSN, IND, LAN, and DSM out of DCA. That's quite a flight schedule for that run-down terminal A. I think it is probably only a matter of time before you see FNT added to that list, as well. It would probably be a way to sneak a decent yield out of the Detroit market given that average fares FNT-DCA are significantly higher than DTW-DCA because of Spirit on the route from DTW, and we all know FNT better serves a decent portion of the north side of Detroit's metro area than DTW does. Just my two cents...
 
B4REAL
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting Meteorologist (reply 26):
In fact, if you look at it, NW has slowly turned DCA into somewhat of a focus city operation.


I agree, DCA has become a focus city by the new direct routes.

You could also make the case for LAX, BOS, and other cities that get the routes from IND, MKE, etc...

I almost think you could call HNL a small hub for NW. Flights to LAX, MSP, DTW (seasonal), NRT, SEA, PDX, ANC, OGG.

NW does sell tickets for the HNL-OGG segments directly(was a question we had when the announced the ANC-OGG-HNL flt. 93 and OGG-HNL-ANC flt. 93 routes). So, really strong connection opportunities exist @ HNL and Hawaii in general. Build SkyTeam there (KE, NW, CO, DL) and you have some real options. And SEA-OGG is cool also.
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:44 pm

No more HNL-NGO, HNL-FUK or HNL-SPN. Miss those trips!
Well, they weren't profitable, and better served by the codeshare with JAS. I miss the SYD trips.
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burnsie28
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:41 pm

Some have seem to forgot that NW was leasing/is leasing a lot of their slots to US, they did so shortly after the dismantaling of the DCA hub which they had, however, saw more $$$$$$ in other routes, so they took those needed planes and moved them elsewhere.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:51 am

Well, we used to run a mini-hub out of DCA and have almost hourly service to BOS and LGA if I remember right, until we started leasing our slots away to other carriers
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NWAFA
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:09 am

Jetjack,

It was hourly I do belive..did you ever work the "Silver Service" BOS-DCA flights? Those were so quick and so much service! (The Good 'ol days!)
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:13 am

I did once or twice. They went somewhat senior. The FA's that did them frequently liked them because of the clientele were regulars. I do miss those days too.
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NWAskyteam
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:35 am

CMH seems like a logical choice for next focus city now with seasonal non-stops on Saturdays to MCO. PDX does not fit into the heartland concept and it is well-served by partners AS and Horizon. PIT I believe has the space but is still served by US on most routes that NW would likely enter and with WN moving in, sounds like a blood bath that would be best avoided. Plus NW doesn't have the frequent flyer loyalty of Pittsburghers like they do with those in Indy and Milwaukee, even before the focus cities started.

In reference to the question about new narrowbody aircraft acquisition, NW is still taking delivery of CRJs that is fueling most of the expansion and is reassigning some DC9s. If I am not mistaken, NW still has some narrowbodies parked including DC9s that were supposed to be put back into service but now aren't. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
N801NW
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:58 am

NW will not pull four 9's out of the desert (as planned) this spring and two in-service 9's will return to the desert so their ASM's will grow only about 1% this year. However, in addition to the CRJ's a total of four new A319's will be delivered this year.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting NWAskyteam (reply 33):
CMH seems like a logical choice for next focus city now with seasonal non-stops on Saturdays to MCO


Delta has a focus city operation in Columbus, and American Airlines/American Eagle has a sizeable operation. There isn't room, nor need, for another carrier to have a focus city.

Northwest's MCO-CMH Saturday non-stops are being operated under a contract from a cruise ship company in Port Canaveral. They are pretty much pre-sold out thanks to the contract. It has nothing to do with anything else.
a.
 
nwa man
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 35):
Delta has a focus city operation in Columbus, and American Airlines/American Eagle has a sizeable operation. There isn't room, nor need, for another carrier to have a focus city.



On the other hand, NW has a reasonably sized operation in CMH, a rather large base of frequent flyers in Ohio's capital, and a fairly large, affluent market to draw from in the area. In addition, NW has been known to operate 319s and 320s (in addition to the occasional 757) from fairly close markets like DTW and MSP into Columbus.


So, to sum it up, Columbus has:
-a location in NW's "Heartland"
-a reasonably sized NW operation
-a sizeable base of WorldPerks members
-a fairly large population
-no true hub airline
-a good amount of institutional traffic (state capital/home to OSU)
-receives/received service from decidedly non-Heartland aircraft in the past (e.g. 319, 320, 752)


Hmmm, reminds me of a few other cities... cough, cough, MKE, IND, etc.

Not saying that there's going to be a NW "focus city" in Columbus, per se, but the city certainly fits the mold for future NW expansion.

Also, if you think your beloved airport will be the next NW focus city or a recipient of new red tail service, run it by the checklist above. If it fits all of the criteria, chances are that NW is looking closely at adding service, if it hasn't already.


Regards,

N-Dub
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LRGT
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Chugach (reply 22):
Although maybe not a traditional focus city, NW has a very diverse operation at HNL: Nonstop to ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, and MSP. Also, do they fly HNL-NRT?


...and how is that not a focus city??? !!!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Lrgt (reply 37):
Although maybe not a traditional focus city, NW has a very diverse operation at HNL: Nonstop to ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, and MSP. Also, do they fly HNL-NRT?

And a seasonal DTW
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MAH4546
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting Lrgt (reply 37):
...and how is that not a focus city??? !!!


That does not make HNL a focus city. It just recieves a lot of point-to-point service. Simple as that.


Quoting Jetjack74 (reply 38):
And a seasonal DTW


DTW-HNL only operates two weeks a year now, during winter break.
a.
 
7e72004
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:55 am

I think that if they do open another focus city that they should open one in the west, the east already has the hubs of DTW and MEM with the focus cities of MKE and IND.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
flashmeister
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:49 am

Think in terms of SkyTeam + AS and PDX looks fairly decent... all of the AS/QX ops, plus nonstops to MSP, DTW, EWR, IAH, ATL, SLC, NRT, HNL. CO is adding two EWR flights this summer, too. NW/CO/DL/AS/QX combined have almost 60% market share at PDX.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:01 am

I think we are all overlooking one candidate, MCI. Sure WN is a pest and YX has a decent sized presence, but neither is predatory (i.e. NW DEN-LAX) when it comes to MCI.


Quoting NWA Man (reply 36):
So, to sum it up, Columbus has:
-a location in NW's "Heartland"
-a reasonably sized NW operation
-a sizeable base of WorldPerks members
-a fairly large population
-no true hub airline
-a good amount of institutional traffic (state capital/home to OSU)
-receives/received service from decidedly non-Heartland aircraft in the past (


I think that MCI fits each one of those criterion at least to some extent. I'm not sure about the WorldPerks base, but I would venture to say its not small.
 
7e72004
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:03 am

Isn't MCI a "dump?" I am only going off of what others have told me about that airport.  Big grin
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jetjack74
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:46 pm

I never thought MCI was a smart design especially for hub operations. Most of the gates had their own security checkpoint. They've since modified them for the most part.
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wobbles
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:12 pm

I work in SLC and just recently transfered here from PDX. NW would be very smart to add MEM non stops from both cities, particulary SLC since you could proably fly an RJ on that route. There has been some rumble about a PDX AMS flight in the not too distant future. The logical thing would be to run it on weekends (5,6 and 7) for starters to see how it would work. NW really frustrates me about how they seem to overlook some good West Coast cities only because they may not be able to fly RJ's. A good route from MSP with the A319's would be a combo route BFL to FAT to MSP and another good idea would be EUG MSP non stop (or maybe with a stop in PDX). At least they will finally start service at ELP (from MSP) which was long overdue
 
7e72004
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:27 am

How big was Delta's operation out of PDX before?
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azjubilee
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:33 am

Wobbles - they'll only go if they can find the route profitable. Otherwise you'd find every airline flying every route and bleeding profusely. Oh wait, that's DL, UA and AA. NWAs resources are best used in places where it makes sense. EUG, BFL and other small cities are not viable with a 319 and are better off using connecting service to places like SLC, LAX, PDX or SEA.

SLC-MEM I think is wise, as well as PDX-MEM.


AZJ
 
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RE: Future NW Focus Cities?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:02 am

IOWAMAN

Sorry to say but DSM-EWR or LGA/JFK will most likely not work. We cut it after serving it briefly. We even had our CEO meet with business' up there to promote the market but it couldn't cut it. So I highly doubt it will be back...I'm surprised it wasn't added as a tag-on to OMA.

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