252MKR
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Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:16 am

Word on Flightinfo is that Virgin America are (Queen's English verb tense) having trouble getting financing with the current U.S. airline environment.

Does anyone else have info? And, is it really smart to have a "new" LCC? We need another airline here like we need a hole-in-the-head.

That said--R. Branson is an intelligent and amusing person--if he can make a go of it, more power to him!
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting 252MKR (reply 0):
Word on Flightinfo is that Virgin America are (Queen's English verb tense) having trouble getting financing with the current U.S. airline environment.


interesting, perhaps the impending UA problems are delaying final contracts - if UA goes under, then Virgin at SFO would be a very promising proposition for investors I would have thought.


Quoting 252MKR (reply 0):
Does anyone else have info? And, is it really smart to have a "new" LCC? We need another airline here like we need a hole-in-the-head.


demand and supply dictates who survives - just like any other business. why should airlines be any different?

Quoting 252MKR (reply 0):
That said--R. Branson is an intelligent and amusing person--if he can make a go of it, more power to him!


As a VS flyer, I have to agree!!

Rich.
 
252MKR
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:52 pm

It is too bad that you submit VS needs to have a legacy airline go "off the rails" in order to make it in the US market. I would submit that the Virgin brand is strong enough to make it on its own. That, and a great OPS team who can plan around the "challenges" that exist in SFO.

When you make a go of it--please make your colour Blue. Americans resonate more with blue than red--has to do with politics.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-02-26 04:56:48]
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:57 pm

Quoting 252MKR (reply 2):


Quoting 252MKR (reply 2):
It is too bad that you submit VS needs to have a legacy airline go "off the rails" in order to make it in the US market. I would submit that the Virgin brand is strong enough to make it on its own. That; and a great OPS team who can plan around the "challenges" that exist in SFO.


I think you read me wrong, I was hypothosising why investors may be holding back on investment in Virgin America.

Personally, I agree with you, the Virgin brand could succeed without another carrier going under.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:01 pm

Sir Richard has already shown the ability to take on "legacy" companies in the US via Virgin Music stores and Virgin Cola, why would an airline be any different  Smile

Cheers
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting 252MKR (reply 0):
Word on Flightinfo is that Virgin America are (Queen's English verb tense) having trouble getting financing with the current U.S. airline environment.


To quote JetBlue CEO David Neelmen, "People who invest in airlines are the biggest suckers ever." Airlines are a highly speculative, highly risky investment... with current fuel and ticket prices, the only way to make money is to hedge fuel heavily like WN. It takes massive financial resources to pull that off.

Maybe in 2007-2008 things will cool down and the market will be more suitable for another LCC. Today, Virgin America can at best hope to do one thing: make SFO go Ted.

Quoting 252MKR (reply 0):
And, is it really smart to have a "new" LCC? We need another airline here like we need a hole-in-the-head.


I think Richard sumed up supply/demand well.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (reply 5):
To quote JetBlue CEO David Neelmen, "People who invest in airlines are the biggest suckers ever." Airlines are a highly speculative, highly risky investment... with current fuel and ticket prices, the only way to make money is to hedge fuel heavily like WN. It takes massive financial resources to pull that off.


Or to quote Richard Branson himself, "the easiest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire - and start an airline"

[Edited 2005-02-26 05:12:44]
 
252MKR
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:17 pm

Going against VS of A:

1) SFO-centrism. Delays are second only to LGA. Yes, I know these city pairs make the market--but ops issues may trump sales gains. SFO is legend with nightmare flying conditions. These realities must be "managed to."

#2) Johnny-come-lately; VS of A will have to overcome the trendy, trend of LCC's wishing to emulate the Target Stores Airline model, putting rear-ends in 31" pitch seats, and making them feel great about it.

Going for VS of A:

1) Through Pop culture--they already have branding with the target demographic--25-40 males--the ones who have and spend all of the $$$.

2) They have an Ibiza-esque aura about them of good times and chic. This can not be bought.

Summary:

Now is the time--Do a "work-around" the foreign ownership issue. And get 'er dune!
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Richard28 (reply 6):

Or to quote Richard Branson himself, "the easiest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire - and start an airline"


I'll stick with Neelmen's assertion given that Branson is venturing into his territory, and not vice versa  Big grin

The most successful airline in the U.S. is only making money because it gambled in 2003 that fuel was about to spike. That doesn't bode well with investors. This isn't Virgin Atlantic, this isn't Virgin Blue... the five airlines in Ch.11 right now all cite overcapacity and fierce competition as a reason for their woes. Investors will know that too.

If Branson wants a North American airline, fantastic... but if he has half a brain, wait until you have something working in your favor. Hell just wait until US is gone and pick-up/rebrand their assets
 
ckfred
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:42 pm

Richard28:

I thought Warren Buffet made that remark after his investment in US.
 
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legacyins
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting 252MKR (reply 7):
) SFO-centrism. Delays are second only to LGA. Yes, I know these city pairs make the market--but ops issues may trump sales gains. SFO is legend with nightmare flying conditions. These realities must be "managed to."


I believe ORD had the distinction last year of having the most delayed prone problems. SFO is not as bad as you may believe.
 
flyibaby
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:57 pm

Ckfred

Your right. Warren Buffet has said that numerous times.
 
StowAway
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:33 pm

Quoting 252MKR (reply 2):
When you make a go of it--please make your colour Blue. Americans resonate more with blue than red--has to do with politics.


I know about 52 million Americans that disagree.  Big grin
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Virgin America

Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Richard28 (reply 6):
Or to quote Richard Branson himself, "the easiest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire - and start an airline"


It was Warren Buffet who made that remark and it does hit the nail on the head and is 110% on the money.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AA717driver
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:23 am

I don't think '07-'08 will be any more airline friendly that it is now. As someone pointed out on another board, we are in the middle of the economic recovery and airlines are still losing their butts.

The next down turn may well be the grim reaper for some carriers. VSA might be able to profit from that or it may scare them off.TC
FL450, M.85
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:28 am

sorry I thought it was Richard Branson who said that.

thanks for correcting me  Smile

[Edited 2005-02-26 16:28:44]
 
zotan
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:19 am

Can someone clear this Virgin America thing up for me? Virgin America was originally a joint venture between Neeleman and Branson before JetBlue was started. The two didnt really get along so nothing ever happened. Is Branson now trying to start another Virgin America?
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:33 am

yes Virgin America is a new venture based in Burlingame, Ca by SFO and is currently seeking funding. SInce there has to be Majority US ownership, there has been a very difficult time getting funding.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
COEWR
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting StowAway (reply 12):
Quoting 252MKR (reply 2):
When you make a go of it--please make your colour Blue. Americans resonate more with blue than red--has to do with politics.


I know about 52 million Americans that disagree.



Thank you StowAway  Smile
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting COEWR (reply 18):
When you make a go of it--please make your colour Blue. Americans resonate more with blue than red--has to do with politics.


I know about 52 million Americans that disagree


Here we go again...
-Dave
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Virgin America

Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:58 am

On the VirginAmerica website, http://www.virginamerica.com , it used to stay they'd be starting service in the middle of 2005. Now, there is a brief message from CEO Fred Reid that says, "We look forward to welcoming you on board in 2005."

Do you think it is possible for them to get all the approvals and training complete to start by the end of the year? I know this depends widely on how long it takes the DOT to certify the carrier, but it seems to me if they're to get off the ground by the end of the year, things, BIG things, need to start happening now.

[Edited 2005-02-27 00:59:42]
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
2H4
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RE: Virgin America

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:44 am

From a job posting on Monster.com:

About Virgin America
Virgin America will be a new generation airline, an innovator that challenges industry norms to deliver a better value for domestic air travelers. By uniting Virgin’s world-renowned customer-focus, and distinctive style, Virgin America plans to create a high-value, low-fare airline that offers more – more options, more comfort, more entertainment, more value. The U.S. airline will be American-controlled and majority-owned as well as managed by a team of leading American aviation executives and plans to add more than 3,000 jobs to the U.S. economy over the next five years.

Additionally, Virgin America has entered into agreements to acquire and lease up to 105 Airbus A320-Family aircraft. The aircraft deal calls for initial delivery in early 2005 with a firm order for 18 new aircraft – 11 A319s and seven A320s – with 15 additional new A320s being leased from GE Capital Aviation Services. The agreement with Airbus also contains options for up to 72 additional aircraft. All aircraft will be equipped with engines from CFM International, a 50/50 joint company between Snecma Moteurs of France and GE.



2H4


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