mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:30 pm

Hey, don't have sources i can show you but my mum had a meeting with some higher KLM staf since she work at a very new department, they also pointed out that they have presure from french to replace the MD-11 sooner than 2012. so you can expect an order for probably A330, 777 anytime soon
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Until 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:42 pm

I heard this too... And there's a another rumor going along with this one... Air France-KLM wants the MD-11's for their cargo operations.

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:46 pm

I heard this too... And there's a another rumor going along with this one... Air France-KLM wants the MD-11's for their cargo operations.

Cheers!


'well my mum didn't said that, but it would be great! 10 MD-11's wich are good F planes, and most of them received or are reiceving D check recently. i can see 1 or 2 going to MP 2 for KLM and 6 for AF or so
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:53 pm

Something struck me... Wasn't AF one of the parties interested in the B777F? A conversion of the KLM MD-11's for their own operations can affect this interest.
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:01 pm

KL should tell AF to go fish. If KL wants to keep the MD11 which serves the very well, they should be able to. How about if KL wanted AF to get rid of that fatty 318? Would they?

There are far too few MD11s around flying passengers as it is. Lets hope KL isnt going to be dictated to by AF in this new partnership.
 
KLMyank
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 6:39 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:33 pm

The MD-11 freighter option just won't quit. Some colleagues in the combi-unit keep hearing it...
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:58 pm

Crap! AF should let KL do their own fleet planning! How come everyone is trying to get rid of the last generation MD aircraft? Sure, maintenance issues and all that, but at the same time SAS and probably Delta are getting rid of their MD-90s. The MD-11 and MD-90 are both very modern A/C, and economically sound. If KL wants to keep their MD-11s until 2012, they should be able to!

(And a tip for SAS/Delta: There are currently plenty of MD-90s available for purchase.)

Cheers
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Doona
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:01 pm

Crap! AF should let KL do their own fleet planning! How come everyone is trying to get rid of the last generation MD aircraft? Sure, maintenance issues and all that, but at the same time SAS and probably Delta are getting rid of their MD-90s. The MD-11 and MD-90 are both very modern A/C, and economically sound. If KL wants to keep their MD-11s until 2012, they should be able to!
I'm sure that AF can understand another airline who enjoys operating several different A/C types, as AF has like the largest amount of A/C types in Europe: B744/743/772/773/763/A343/342/333/332 in their longhaul fleet!

(And a tip for SAS/Delta: There are currently plenty of MD-90s available for purchase.)

Cheers
Mats.
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Scorpio
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting Doona (reply 7):
as AF has like the largest amount of A/C types in Europe: B744/743/772/773/763/A343/342/333/332 in their longhaul fleet!


They don't have any 763, 342 or 333, and the 743 will be going soon.
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:22 am

I thought KLM fully owned the MD-11's and that they were fully paid for. I am not really sure about this, but in this case wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to continue to operate the MD-11!

I could understand it if they were allocated to cargo operations.
 
Doona
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:47 am

Thx for correcting me on that one, Scorpio. I was wrong about those A/C, but nonetheless, AF does operate six longhaul types, which quite alot, I think.

Cheers
Mats.
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:01 am

AFAIK, KL has a fairly good reputation in the industry for deft and astute fleet management...perhaps the suits from AF should do more listening than preaching.

BTW, how are the corporate cultures of these two organizations melding since they began "cohabitation" last year?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Udo
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting Doona (reply 10):
Thx for correcting me on that one, Scorpio. I was wrong about those A/C, but nonetheless, AF does operate six longhaul types, which quite alot, I think.


Not really. B777s and A330/A340 can be regarded as only two families, plus B747-400 and B747 classics. So we have four with the B747 classics leaving in the near future.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:26 am

I heared the pressure on this isn't strictly from AF only. KLM wants to expand it's cargo operations and talks are there that AF and KLM will create one cargo company that will serve them both.

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:28 am

hey, i just asked more info about it to my mum. here job is to deal with the fraud at KLM, its a new part in the KLM company and they are supposed to get 12 milion dollar this year, and since they need floating money for fleet replacement i guess thats why they talked about the MD-11 replacement...
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1236
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 am

Bad news  Sad

Even if they replace them with super the 777, I would still like them to keep the M11 for a little longer (so I can fly it again of course!). At least AY and AZ still have them.


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 9363
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:23 am

Nothing new here.

The plan was / is to standarize the fleet on three types; 744, 777 and 330.

The 743, M11, 767 are the ones to be retired.

The MD11s are leased until 2012, a business case for replacing them proved no good sofar. However as I said many times, circimstances can change...

Perhaps the market situation/ demand is changing, or opportunities have come up..

All I can say : 6x 332s is hardly enough to operate efficiently, we have 16 330 options, the 772´s are doing just fine, & if we see a smart deal with AF we of course do it.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
A388
Posts: 7327
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RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Doona (reply 10):
Thx for correcting me on that one, Scorpio. I was wrong about those A/C, but nonetheless, AF does operate six longhaul types, which quite alot, I think.


Doona (Mats), it depends on how you look at it. When looking at the aircraft sizes, than AF operates 5 different "sizes", but if you look at the aircraft types itself, AF only operates three aircraft types, which isn't much. They have the 744, the 773/772 and the 343/332. All together these are only three types.

I agree with the others, I would like to see the MD11 fly longer for KLM. Today I was actually wondering why KLM wouldn't convert their MD11s to fullfreighters, it is a perfect aircraft for cargo operations. Martinair could even use a few extra MD11Fs, but the problem here is that KLM's MD11s are powered by General Electric, while Martinair's MD11s are powered by Pratt & Whitney engines. But than again, in this case, KLM could easily maintain the GE-powered MD11s because of their long experience with the engine type. So it shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Hope we will see the MD11 in KLM colours for a longer time Big grin

A388
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:49 am

I say keep those tri-jets!!!

KLM are upgrading their CAI flights from B763s to a mix of MD-11s(5) and B777s(2) in the summer. I've avoided flying KLM on their UK-AMS-CAI routes in the past just to avoid the 767s on the CAI sector, but with this upgrade I'm hoping to try them this June.

Horus

[Edited 2005-02-27 23:53:23]
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: KLM MD-11 Not Untill 2012

Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:48 am

I wonder how many more summers the KL MD-11 will fly AMS-YVR. I hope they keep them since airlines like JAL got rid of their MD-11 and the DC-10 is going very soon. I know that Fedex would love to get them but some need to remain as pax types......
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300

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