md80fanatic
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Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:44 am

I came across this article, featured for the March 7 issue of Newsweek magazine........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7037720/site/newsweek/

Any opinions on this?
 
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RobK
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:13 am

Crikey!

We're being spied on by the CIA and they don't take kindly to us posting pics of the aircraft they use on here!!  Big thumbs up

You watch, give it a while and then suddenly the FAA USCAR will disappear offline without any explanation.

Maybe we should watch what we say as tools like the FAA register are very handy.

So let's not mention the CIA's use of B737 BBJ N4476S (ex N313P) or GLF5 N44982 (ex N8068V/N379P)  Big thumbs up

Sorry, but they shouldn't be so paranoid about it all. If terrorists/people interested in such matters want to find out this kind of info they will do, without the help of amateur's/enthusiasts like ourselves so let's just all calm down eh  Insane

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink/being sarcastic
 
leelaw
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:16 am

Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Udo
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:20 am

I guess taking pictures of American registered aircraft will soon be declared an act of aggression by the paranoids in D.C....  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Newark777
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:22 am

Aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections

WTF?

So the CIA is angry they got exposed by a.netters and the like? That's too bad. At least they didn't recommend cracking down on spotters (as if that hasn't already happened). This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners. They need to get over it.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:43 am

This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners.

Not just secretly transport prisoners...they ship them overseas so they can be tortured without any due process whatsoever. In case you are unfamiliar with the issue of "extraordinary rendition," read more about it here: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6 Even if you take the article with a grain of salt, as you should--it's a bit on the inflammatory side--it's still quite eye-opening.

I normally don't like to get political on this message board, and I hate terrorists as much as the next guy, but any truly patriotic American should be shocked and sickened by what our country is getting involved in here. Posting photos and other publicly available information on the movements of these aircraft has, albeit in a small way, helped shed light on unconstitutional acts being carried out by the U.S. government.

So I say, planespotters unite!  Smile

[Edited 2005-02-27 22:46:39]
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:56 am

Wasn't that one of the themes of the movie "Broken Arrow" -- that they couldn't hide the fact that the bomber had crashed because "old guys in lawn chairs" were tracking the movement of planes? I think the CIA and FBI have always been aware it's going on to some degree, but the relative ease in which others have been able to access this information has suddenly increased exponentially of late.

Our local news did a feature on the clandestine jets a few months ago, and one of them mentioned had a business address in what looked to be an abandoned house in North Portland, if memory serves.

I guess it gives new meaning to "you can run, but you can't hide" - eh, Washington?  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
PolAir
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:02 am

Yeah. I had a nice conversation with two gentleman from FBI few months ago. They wanted to know what a I was doing taking pictures of a/c landing at rwy 19R at KMCI last summer. Pleasant guys! Smile
 
cedarjet
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:24 am

The article says that data and photos on the Internet is not helpful "if your object is clandestinity." That was a quote from some idiot at the CIA. Clandestinity? Why can't they use a real word for the conditions they'd like for the transport of political prisoners for torture? Like "secrecy"?

If these guys can't even talk using real words, how will America so with their so-called war on so-called terror? Oh god.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
afay1
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am

If I am not mistaken, the former KGB had to change tail and mfg. numbers as western spotters had figured out real production numbers and could easily track movements. Heaven forbid.....
 
N754PR
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:09 am

What a load of crap !!, How about the USA just shuts down airports?
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
Boeing73G
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:04 am

No way. Actually, we're innocent. The CIA should realize that people do take pictures of planes as a hobby, but not as a plotting tool.

Doesn't the CIA also have other means of transportation to worry about?
 
L-188
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:14 pm

ROTFLMAO!!!

That's great guys keep up the good work.

Frankly I am becoming less convinced that helping the CIA is by definition helping the good of the nation.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:27 pm

I found that to be quite funny, actually its spotters like us who indirectly help by making sure we dont allow any unusual activities near airports....they should be THANKING US......those ingrates!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
andrej
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:35 pm

Hello,

this story makes me feel good. IT is funny, and sad that CIA is blaming us, spotters, for their inability to cover thier activities. I guess that we are just good!!

A.net just become a part of checks and balances of the US system! Good job Johan!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (Kinda ironic! Non US based webpage, makes difference in US) LOL!

Cheers,
Andrej
 
capri
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:57 pm

I blame hollywood for giving too much credit to CIA by glorifying them in movies meanwhile they are just bunch of Central Ignorance Agency
 
flyibaby
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:49 pm

After reading all the Tom Clancy novels, maybe we should go to switzerland and take photos and post all the gulfstream business jets registered under phony corporations....

seriously though...anyone ever keep track of the 737s that are painted white with a red stripe that run about every hour between LAS and Area 51? I know they file some wierd plan and then fall off radar after they pass the mountains to the west of LAS.
 
noelg
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:15 pm

The company I used to work for maintained a fleet database. One of the places I had to contact was the "Airline" operating their all-white 757. The street address was on some highway in Texas, but looking at an aerial photo using Multimap it looked like some huge military compound.

Why don't they just register them using military registrations, then they wouldn't have to worry about publishing their information! Sure you'd be able to tell it's a military aircraft, but they wouldn't need to use all these phoney companies and get people talking about them!

Noel.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:38 pm

Is the CIA getting mad at us because they want to be the only one doing illegal activities?
 
flyabunch
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:06 pm

All governments, not just the United States have a need to gather intelligence. Therefore, they all need intelligence agencies. Notice that I have used the word "intelligence" twice already.

The CIA just needs to show some "intelligence" and get a little more creative in their efforts. They need to turn what they see as a disadvantage (public availability of aircraft info) to their advantage. Or they need to change their methods. Like hiding in plain (plane) sight!

Mike
 
access-air
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:24 pm

NASCARAirForce

If anyone is doing anything Illegal its not we plane spotters.. Like someone said earlier.. They should all be thankful that we are all there helping them do their jobs that they seem to bungle most of the time anyway.. Esp Airport security. Airport Security in the USA is absolutely the most unorganized sector of the transportation system. Every airport is different and not one has the same guidelines or standards. There are airports and some of great size that they don't give a flip about you taking pictures and then there are airports that would shoot you onsite first and then ask questions later. Sounds like rampant paranoia to me...Unfortunately, until our own Government stops drilling into our head and most of all we stop believing it, that we are sitting ducks waiting for terror to rain down from the skies we might as well be like Henny Penny in the old Nursery Rhyme...
The FAA should not shut down their database, its a public information and should be available to anyone who wants it. Should Should the CIA also make the NTSB also shut down their crash database too? How about all the other Government Databases? Maybe they should shut everything down!!! You never know what people are doing.....Gimme a Break....This Isn't even funny enuff to laugh about... Sad

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
N751PR
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:37 am

Meh just what is needed, more weird looks from fellow Americans just because we continue on with our passion... Insane

As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA with what we love in some way so maybe at least we'd be known for something else outside of being "aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections have become a threat to cover stories established by the CIA to mask its undercover operations and personnel overseas."
"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting N751PR (reply 21):
As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA


If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ? Why not just accept a fascist dictatorship in the name of "the war on tourism" (as GWB so eloquently puts it) ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
KaiGywer
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:46 am

While we are on this topic, why is it ok to run the N-number on a plane, and find out who owns it and where they live, but you can't do the same on a car's license plate.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 22):
If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ?


Amen. My point exactly. Unfortunately, this is not the first time that the CIA has deemed itself above the law, nor do I expect it will be the last. If aviation enthusiasts can help put an end to this while also enjoying their hobby, so much the better!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:57 am

"plane spotters"—hobbyists who photograph airplanes landing or departing local airports and post the pix on the Internet

That's good. They have to explain what plane spotters are. I guess the average Joe doesn't know what a plane spotter is.  Laugh out loud  Smokin cool


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Newark777 (reply 4):


They do, they get new aircraft and sell off the other ones that have been recognized. Airliner World magazine said something about that in their february and March issue.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
N751PR
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 22):
If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ? Why not just accept a fascist dictatorship in the name of "the war on tourism" (as GWB so eloquently puts it) ?


Touché my fellow enthusiast. Embarrassment
"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
 
Jalto27R
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Flyibaby (reply 16):
seriously though...anyone ever keep track of the 737s that are painted white with a red stripe that run about every hour between LAS and Area 51? I know they file some wierd plan and then fall off radar after they pass the mountains to the west of LAS.


I watched a show on Area-51 before. Those 200's are used to transport the employees of Area 51 from LAS. They park at LAS, get on the plane, fly there, fly back at the end of the day. Nothing much to hide there really.

Michael
 
ltbewr
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:36 am

Sadly, I would suggest that one of the fears of 'spotters' near airports is that someone could be a terrorist whom is researching flight patterns for a future attack with shoulder held missiles. Those 'spotters' may not be fit the middle eastern, bearded young adult male stereotype of Islamic terrorists (recall Richard Reid), or you could have non-islamic terrorists too (McVeigh and Oklahoma City) assiting with or planning an attact on a an a/c.
As to the clandestant CIA flights where US and other nationals whom are accused of terror plots or acts upon the USA are transported to countries that use torture upon accused criminals, most Americans really don't give a damm. Most Americans believe that if the USA government believes someone is a criminal, then they will too, and if accused - even wrongly - they deserve any tortures that can be applied to punnish, intimindate, extract info and save American and others lives. Yes, that is arrogant and in the long run counter productive, by formenting more hate against the USA. I would say that those spotters and news media (and people here) whom have followed the info trail about the alleged a/c's used for these 'torture transport flights', are caught in a terrible conterdictions with many USA citizens. Yes, by international standards we are wrong, but those standards assume the enemy is in uniforms, as part of a traditional military structure and carrying out the policies of a recognised government. With modern Islamic based terror, these factors are not there and Bush right on down are scared out of their skin of another attack and feel that they have the right to do anything to prevent another terror attack in the USA. Another 9/11 attack could destroy the USA as we know it. That in turn could lead to a worldwide economic depression not seen since the 1920's and 1930's or open war like WWII. No President or government leader cannot allow another 9/11, so that is why we have such policies, even as they are counter to all kinds of treaties and our own Constitution.
 
bennett123
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:37 am

This reminds me of a story that I read in an aircraft magazine about 10 years ago. I do not remember which magazine, (it was published by Ian Allen).

The article was about the RAF in the Falklands, and detailed their operations. However they stated that there could no report the number of F4's based there.

So I took out my copy of Military Aircraft Markings, (also published by Ian Allen) which listed all RAF aircraft. On reading through the list for F4's, I knew which X F4's were based at Mount Pleasant.

I would tell you how many X was, but that is secret and I would have to kill you. Sorry, but rules are rules.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:18 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (reply 30):
I would tell you how many X was, but that is secret and I would have to kill you. Sorry, but rules are rules.


Ooh - you're like James Bond ! (swoons)  Laugh out loud
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (reply 18):
Is the CIA getting mad at us because they want to be the only one doing illegal activities?


Well, that is their job. Do whatever it takes to complete the mission at hand.

I can see their point in a sense being former military,(just a example) say a rebel leader vanishes in the middle of the night in Kabul, later that day someone posts a picture on here of a CIA owned Gulfstream V flying in or out of Kabul in the middle of the night. Where as the CIA wants to work in secrecy, the less you know the better. It won't take much for the rebels to figure out the CIA flew in and most likely picked up that rebel leader once they see the picture on here. Say the rebels were planning a attack on a near by country, the CIA wants to find out what the intended target is, if the rebels are tipped off that their leader is in U.S hands, the attack could happen sooner than the original planned time. Where as if there was no tracking of their planes, the attack could have been prevented. I think that is what they are trying to prevent from happening. Now can they stop us from taking pictures? No!! Can they spend a few bucks and get a few phony decals with false registration #'s on it to place over the actual registration # to fool us? Yes!!

Quoting KaiGywer (reply 23):
While we are on this topic, why is it ok to run the N-number on a plane, and find out who owns it and where they live, but you can't do the same on a car's license plate.


$25.00 at your local DMV and you can find out the address of anybody through their License Plate. Just tell them you had a fended bender with that person and need to get in touch with them.
Where did everybody go?
 
bennett123
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:44 pm

Personally, if I was that terrorist leader I would keep in contact with my people.

If you have not heard from me in last X days, then assume that I am compromised.
 
voodoo
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:25 pm

March 7 issue - Aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections

In the print edition I have it says `Aviation nuts'. Would they call American football fans...`nuts'?
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
JMV
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:29 pm

AAFLT1871,

Sorry, the CIA is not above the law, nor is any agency of the United States. I for one do not want my government doing "whatever it takes" to complete the mission at hand.

Certainly something may need to be done so legal clandestine operations are not compromised. But I'd rather have the government inconvenienced rather than having freedoms and rights abridged.
Google begins where my brain ends! ©
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:41 am

 
ckfred
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:51 pm

Oh no. I took pictures of my toddler watching activities on the ramp at Concourse A at ATL recently. I guess I need to put the camera away and teach him not to look at airplanes!
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:02 pm

Not trying to sound too political here, but I thought everyone knew about the US going internationally to interogate to other Mid Eastern Countries that use force on suspects? Its not illegal, but it sure is dirty playing.

I think about from what I hear about in the 1950s and the Red Scare and how so called Patriots in America would interogate innocent people just because they may have known someone in the past who was believed to be a communist. The same is happening here again today, but now its terrorists. We are living in a state of paranoia.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (reply 29):
Another 9/11 attack could destroy the USA as we know it. That in turn could lead to a worldwide economic depression not seen since the 1920's and 1930's or open war like WWII


Only if you let it!!! 9/11 was a cowardly and horrible thing.. but destroying the USA nuh!!

It is this paranoid attitude and abandonment of all the rules of freedom that your country (rightly or wrongly) prided itself on that means the bad guys have won!!
I agree strenuous efforts need to be made to bring those responsible for acts of terror to justice but becoming just as savage and lawless as them is not the answer!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:33 am

LMAO! ridiculous...
The U.S. democracy is looking more and more like a police state.
Heading down the road towards Saudi Arabia or China where your democratic right is that you can say and do whatever you want so long as it's allowed by the govt.
Let's hope the good people of the U.S. stand up for their rights.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
L-188
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (reply 40):
The U.S. democracy is looking more and more like a police state


I think you might be overdramtizing it somewhat.

But I do enjoy this story....keep up the good work!!!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
visityyj
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:32 am

"plane spotters"—hobbyists who photograph airplanes landing or departing local airports and post the pix on the Internet

That's good. They have to explain what plane spotters are. I guess the average Joe doesn't know what a plane spotter is.


And still doesn't according to the above ! A spotter logs tail numbers. Some may also take photos, but that's not their primary interest. It's only here on a.net that the term 'spotter' is used interchangeably with photographer.
 
N5176Y
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:39 am

I think you people missed the point.

People taking pictures aren't the problem... its the online databases of pictures and registrations that are. Usually these flights are operated under blocked flight plans so you don't know where they are coming from or going to. But pop in their registration number in the Airliners.net photo database, for example, sort by date, and you have a pretty good record of when and where a particular aircraft has been. When your job is clandestine and you're trying to avoid leaving tracks, this works against it.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:10 am

Don't forget that there were in the past plane spotters working for investors whom would record the movements of biz a/c by their registration number. They would note if possible whom boarded, like if from certain companies, law or investment firms and if the a/c was known to be owned or usually used by a particlular company. This was to track possible merger or buyout activity, so that some people could buy a stock that was going to blast off as are a traget of a merger/buyout. One result of all these 'spotters' work, much info as to aircraft, flight plans, etc was made more difficult to get.
You also have celeberties and business leaders whom use private a/c and for personal security (fears of stalkers, kidnappers, crazies, deranged ex-employees) and don't want their a/c use public knowlege. Of course there is legitment military or intellegence security needs to limit spotting or knowlege of their operations of a/c. The CIA ops flights are a problem and get a lot of attention for obious and serious moral issues of their intentions.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:13 pm

Just saw on the 6pm news several A.net photos of a CIA B73G and a Gulfstream jet. It was about the CIA operation of transporting people

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