EddieDude
Topic Author
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Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:51 pm

I would like to know if NW is the only carrier (legacy, LCC or otherwise) serving GFK on a regularly-scheduled basis?

Thanks very much for the info.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
B4REAL
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:54 pm

Hey Eddie! Greetings to you.

I would have to say that NW and NW Airlink Connection are the only ones @ GFK. A quick look @ FlyetComm shows that this is the case.

I believe GFK would be a city that is an EAS (Essential Air Service) destination, somewhat of subsidy to link remote areas to the rest of the country. Can anyone confirm/object this?
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azjubilee
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:55 pm

Yup.







AZJ
 
B4REAL
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:00 pm

Off the top of my head, interesting spur topic...

MLB - Melbourne Florida only has DL (though it is relatively close to MCO..)
CMX - Hancock, MI; SSM - Sault St. Marie, MI; APN - Alpena, MI; has only NW Airlink I believe...

Many Alaska cities have only Alaska Airlines

[Edited 2005-02-28 05:01:09]
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MSYtristar
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:00 pm

United Express (operated by Great Lakes I think) used to fly to GFK as late as the late 90's from MSP. They flew B1900's into GFK.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Hey there Rick!!! Greetings to you too!

I was sort of hoping that maybe some LCC would have a daily flight to GFK or something. I may want to visit an acquaintance in the Grand Forks area later this year and all I could find was CO/NW service from MEX via IAH and MSP, at a kind of expensive fare... perhaps it will make sense to use SkyMiles to get there.

I guess I won't find anything cheaper since NW monopolizes service to GFK.

Thanks Rick and AZJubilee; much appreciated. MSYTristar, thanks to you too; I thought maybe UA Express would have something as well but not anymore.

Cheers.

P.S. Rick, when are you coming to Mexico?

[Edited 2005-02-28 05:04:03]
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
jcs17
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm

Yep, NW/NW Airlink (Mesaba) is the only scheduled carrier that flies to Grand Forks. If I can recall correctly (I don't fly NW from GFK anymore), it's a D95, 2x D9S, 2x AR8, 2x SF3 (with one flight continuing on to Devils Lake, ND.). I believe NW recieves some kind of subsidy for service, but it's not substantial. GFK still gets absolutely raped in terms of fares, as does FAR which has service from both NW and UA Express.

B4real, there are several cities in Minnesota and the Dakotas that are only served by NW/Airlink.
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jcs17
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:11 pm

Eddie, if your friend has no qualms with driving two and a half hours, I would recommend flying into Winnipeg which I tend to do occaisionally now.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:15 pm

I'll check fares from MEX to Winnipeg! If it is substantially cheaper, I may do that and drive myself! Thanks so much for the tip.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:17 pm

Fly into MSP and take Amtrak. That train is usually nearly on-time. It leaves MSP around 10pm each night. On the return, it gets back to MSP by 7am or so. Perfect time to flight connections, and the rail fare is usually pretty cheap on the route. Check it out at www.amtrak.com.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:20 pm

You can also check FAR Fargo. Looks like UA has coded flights there also on SkyWest.

Eddie: I'll probably be in SLP over Easter. Poor way to spend a holiday, but that's what the customer does to me!!
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iowaman
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting B4real (reply 3):
MLB - Melbourne Florida only has DL (though it is relatively close to MCO..)
CMX - Hancock, MI; SSM - Sault St. Marie, MI; APN - Alpena, MI; has only NW Airlink I believe...


MCW, FOD, ALO, SUX all only have NW Airlink.
DBQ only has American Eagle
BRL, IRK, JEF, Fort Leonard Wood, MO., Marion, IL, Cape Girardeau, MO., and Quincy, IL. only has AA Connection (Corporate Express)
 
nwa man
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:47 pm

I believe GFK would be a city that is an EAS (Essential Air Service) destination, somewhat of subsidy to link remote areas to the rest of the country. Can anyone confirm/object this?


GFK is not an EAS city. I'd imagine that it would be if NW for some ungodly reason decided to drop it, but as of now, NW and its subsidiaries receive no subsidy for operating into Grand Forks.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting NWA Man (reply 12):
GFK is not an EAS city. I'd imagine that it would be if NW for some ungodly reason decided to drop it, but as of now, NW and its subsidiaries receive no subsidy for operating into Grand Forks.


Thanks, N-Dub. I was curious, I think it a borderline destination in this regard.
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nwa man
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:19 pm

Quoting B4real (reply 13):
Thanks, N-Dub. I was curious, I think it a borderline destination in this regard.



True. Without NW, it'd probably be EAS because it's a relatively large city and home to a major state university.

But as is, it's a cash cow for Northwest, and has no need for federal subsidies. Since they're the only game in town, NW can charge a premium, and the citizens of northwestern Minnesota and eastern North Dakota have shown that they're willing to pay this premium, as shown by the DC-9-50s (and other aircraft) that NW operates into the city.
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RayBolt
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:07 pm

Damn NW, its more expensive to fly GFK-MSP than NYC-LON.

GFK also used to see the old Frontier (DEN) in addition to Air Wisconsin (ORD?). FAR is generally better to fly out of, competition w/ UA, but even that has become worse over the past year. I do what I can to avoid NW, but unfortunately don't really have too much of a choice being 'stuck' up here. I heard that they are trying to expand the airport, but doubt it will happen in the near future. There was a study that showed that a new terminal would be about $20-26 mil (and half could be funded by the gov't), but the city decided that it was too expensive for this village of a place. Oh well, stuck w/ NW for the time being...at least I can earn my CO miles.
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aviatortj
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:07 pm

Fly UA into FAR. With just a little competition, there is a reasonable drop in fares. Plus it is only an hour's drive too. JCS, have you really found YWG to be that much cheaper than GFK or FAR??

-TJ
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:19 pm

Well im here in college at UND... and ive attempted to go home to ORD a couple times now, i find UA has somewhat reasonable fares from FAR... NW sometimes does last-minute promotions out of FAR as well to fill their seats, like i got a ticket 12-hours advance FAR-MSP-ORD-MSP-FAR for $184... not too bad. UA ive gotten for abotu $200-$250 with the regular advance purchase... I also notice that TVF (Thief River Falls, Minnesota) is usually cheaper than GFK... i havent flown out of there yet, opted to take the Amtrak instead... but TVF is about as far of a drive as FAR, and fares are about the same as FAR, so far theyve always been cheaper than GFK... i think theres 2 or 3 Saab 340's that fly in there a day from MSP, all of which stop in Bemidji BJI. If youre up for some Saab-hopping, you could try that.

TWA902
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mel
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:15 pm

Fares from Winnipeg to the U.S. are generally pretty expensive because the amount they add on for taxes is ludicrous. Sometimes you can get really/really good deals though, but rarely. Examples: Winnipeg-Los Angeles round-trip for $109CAD each way (AC/NW/WS), to total like $330CAD taxes in. The Winnipeg-Las Vegas charter flights usually go for around the same (Skyservice 320s during the winter). Domestic fares within Canada are well-priced from Winnipeg.

Winnipeg-Mexico City the cheapest you'd probably find would be in the $500s CAD dollars, probably making $600s when taxes are in. Good luck.
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atcrick
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:42 pm

Just for the record,

Allegiant Air is the only airline serving FNL.


Atc Rick
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lincoln
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting B4real (reply 3):
CMX - Hancock, MI; SSM - Sault St. Marie, MI; APN - Alpena, MI; has only NW Airlink I believe...


Not that it has much to do with the original post, but my personal favorite airport PLN - Pellston/Emmet County, MI only has NW Airlink/Jet Airlink and it is an EAS city... Though the last few times I've been through the flights have all been (nearly) full. Even in the off-season.

Quoting Raybolt (reply 15):
Damn NW, its more expensive to fly GFK-MSP than NYC-LON.


Yup. You should try LAX-PLN (via LAX-DTW-PLN-DTW-LAX or LAX-MSP-DTW-PLN-DTW-MSP-LAX)... I think last time I looked it was something like 33% more to do either of those than LAX-LON on the same dates, even on NW. That was actually a relatively small difference. And my grandparents wonder why I don't visit them more often since they've moved to Michigan full time.

Lincoln
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kim777fan
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:29 am

Other relatively populous cities with just one airline flying to just one hub are DHN ( DL to ATL), and BLI ( AS to SEA).
 
jcs17
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:56 am

AviatorTJ, it really all depends on where I'm going and how long I'm staying in that place. For my hometown, Dallas, fares are ridiculous in the first place so I usually would pay $350-$450 for a r/t from GFK.

However, if I'm coming up at the beginning of the semester and the next time when I know I'll be going home is over Thanksgiving, I will have stayed too long in GFK to qualify for a discounted ticket (on UA from FAR or NW). Air Canada does not have a maximum stay policy on any of their tickets, so instead of paying $600 to fly UA to FAR or NW to GFK, I can fly AC for $350 to YWG. I'll also fly into YWG if I need to fly on a one-way ticket because AC has really cheap one-way fares. Otherwise, if I'm just going somewhere for a few days or a week, I'll fly UA to FAR. I don't fly on NW/CO anymore since they don't give EQS for discounted tickets.

I took Amtrak once to MSP and I learned my lesson.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:11 am

A lot of the cities you people are discussing are not EAS airports.

PLN is not an EAS city. Yes, NW Airlink is the only carrier that serves the airport, and they significantly increase capacity in the summer months, even flew and ARJ in this past summer.

There is a difference between EAS and other subsidies/grants out there. Many airports/communities offer incentives to get new air service. These can be locally funded or supported by the business community. There are also SCASD grants that are available every year. Airports file cases to get grant money through the Small Community Air Service Development grant program. Airports such as GNV, LBE, AVP, MQT, ERI, etc, etc. all have won grants in recent years to offer subsidies to new or existing carriers to increase service or make necessary airport improvements to allow for new air service. These communities are not EAS, but generally fall under the small regional market category.


This report http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/rural/us06-03.pdf provides a good breakdown of EAS cities and what airline provides service. Its from 2003, but it is the most recent report I can find. For the most part, very little is different. I do that AOO (Altoona, PA) is attempting to switch its EAS service from PIT to IAD due to the pull-down of the USAirways hub and limited connection opportunities.
 
Seattle Ops
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:37 am

United Airlines Offers Nonstop Service to Two Great Western Destinations
Monday February 14, 1:32 pm ET
United Express to offer the only air service between Denver and Great Falls, Mt.; San Francisco and Albuquerque


CHICAGO, Feb. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- United Airlines will offer daily nonstop service between Great Falls, Mont., and Denver and between Albuquerque, N.M., and San Francisco -- providing the only nonstop air service between these Great Western cities. Earn 1,000 bonus miles,* when traveling between May 4, 2005, through June 30, 2005, plus an additional 1,000 bonus miles when booking online at united.com.** United Express will offer two round-trip flights per day to each destination.
"We are pleased to be adding service to these two cities," said Greg Taylor, United's Senior Vice President-Planning. "Great Falls is new to the United Express network and we are excited about enhancing air service in this community."

Service to both destinations begins May 4, and tickets are now available. United Express carrier SkyWest Airlines will operate both the Denver-Great Falls and San Francisco-Albuquerque service with two daily flights on 50-seat regional jets.

"More and more Montana communities are economically expanding, and new opportunities can always arise through increased access," said Sen. Conrad Burns (Mont.), the newly named Chairman of the Senate Aviation Subcommittee. This new service to Great Falls is certainly a great opportunity for the community, and I am excited about United's ever-growing presence in our state."

"This route should bring new economic opportunities and ultimately jobs to the Electric City and surrounding area," said Sen. Max Baucus (Mont.). "And it will provide more options for Montanans who are traveling for work or to visit family and friends."

Sen. Pete Domenici (N.M.) said, "I am very pleased to learn about United's new service between Albuquerque and its hub in San Francisco -- the first nonstop service on that route. This jet service will mean even more options for travelers using Albuquerque Sunport. These options and the increased activity at Sunport are all good indicators of a growing city."

Denver-Great Falls is currently priced at $119 for each way based on round-trip purchases before March 19.*** Book flights at http://united.com/greatfallsintro . United also guarantees you will find the lowest fares on united.com.

The addition of both routes increases each city's access to United's expansive route network. For example, Albuquerque will have improved access to all of United's Pacific destinations, including Asia, Australia and Hawaii.

The United schedule for the new daily nonstop service is as follows:

Service between Denver and Great Falls
Origin Destination Departure Arrival Service
Denver Great Falls 11:35 a.m. 1:26 p.m. United Express
Denver Great Falls 8:10 p.m. 10:01 p.m. United Express
Great Falls Denver 7:30 a.m. 9:16 a.m. United Express
Great Falls Denver 3:30 p.m. 5:16 p.m. United Express

Service between San Francisco and Albuquerque
Origin Destination Departure Arrival Service
San Francisco Albuquerque 11:25 a.m. 2:53 p.m. United Express
San Francisco Albuquerque 6:30 p.m. 9:58 p.m. United Express
Albuquerque San Francisco 8:20 a.m. 9:42 a.m. United Express
Albuquerque San Francisco 3:30 p.m. 4:52 p.m. United Express

(Flight times are subject to change.)
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:26 am

This'll be an easy transition for GTF, since SkyWest flies there already.
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burnsie28
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:57 am

Um Seattle Ops, WTF DOES that have to do with the NW and Grand Forks, ND

Raybolt- why do you do what you can to avoid flying NW?
 
nwa man
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:32 am

I don't fly on NW/CO anymore since they don't give EQS for discounted tickets.


Don't know about OnePass, but with the new year, WorldPerks now gives EQS for all fares flown on NW metal.
Create your own luck.
 
jcs17
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:43 am

Yeah, that's the problem NWA Man, all my miles are on OnePass. You cannot earn EQS on discounted NW tickets on OnePass. I could switch to World Perks, but I'm really not a huge fan of NW anyway, so I'm giving UA/Star a shot this year. Who knows? When I earn Premier status, I might try to have NW comp my status and fly them next year if I get too fed up with driving to Fargo or Winnipeg.
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azjubilee
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:24 am

It is utterly amazing how a simple yes or no question can take on a life of its own!!!


AZJ
 
RayBolt
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:12 am

Burnsie- In my experiences, NW just doesn't provide as good an experience as CO (my airline of choice being from Jersey) or UA. I have flown NW a lot recently (necessity)...and have just had much better flights on other carriers. It is somewhat frustrating that everyone up in this part of the country seems to be affiliated w/ NW somehow, and are very closed-minded when it comes to people saying that their airline is definitely not the best. The worst is all the students that have mommy or daddy working for NW, and can non-rev...and feel the need to flaunt that at any time possible.
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pilottim747
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:28 am

So the moral of the story is dont visit GFK. Have your friend from Grand Forks escape from the state and visit you in Mexico. Big thumbs up It's depressing up here, especially in the winter. The only thing that gets me through the winter is planning trips to places outside North Dakota.

Check out the boring nodak landscape. Now add some mountains (or even hils) in there, and we can talk.

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Photo © Timothy Hannan



JCS17, you should take a look at the Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts (APE). We're a bunch of UND students that meet on a.net and like to take trips to places outside of North Dakota.

pilottim747

[Edited 2005-03-01 02:33:45]
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:31 am

I believe there are also some cities that only have NW service via MEM.

Greenville-Cleveland, MS (GLH), Tupelo, MS (TUP), Muscle Shoals-Florence, AL (MSL), Laurel-Hattiesburg, MS (PIB)........

I also believe that Columbus-Starkville-West Point, MS (GTR) and Meridian, MS (MEI) are only served by Delta.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
EddieDude
Topic Author
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:57 am

Thanks for all the input guys. I would of course never consider visiting Grand Forks during the cold months. I lived in Chicago one year (including one full winter) and, for a warm weather dude like me, the bitter cold of December, January and February in the upper Midwest is something I hardly want to experience again.

I ran a search of fares to YWG from MEX (with a Saturday night stay) and the schedules were a bit awkward and the price way higher than flying MEX-IAH-MSP-GFK with CO and NW. Going to FAR with CO/NW was a bit cheaper than GFK but not substantially. I will search with UA. I will also take a look at Amtrak's schedules from MSP.

Again, thanks a lot.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
kjet12
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:00 am

EddieDude: You could always ship yourself on FedEx and save. Chances are the service will be better than NW's.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Kris
AA - Doing what we do best.
 
lincoln
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (reply 23):
PLN is not an EAS city. Yes, NW Airlink is the only carrier that serves the airport, and they significantly increase capacity in the summer months, even flew and ARJ in this past summer.


I appologize for my error, then. Perhaps it would have been better stated as last time I paid any real attention PLN was an EAS city. I did not verify that fact was still a fact before making my statement and stand corrected.

[Notwithstanding, Pellston is still a darn nice little airport and worth a visit, IMHO]

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
jcs17
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RE: Is NW The Only Carrier At GFK?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:54 pm

JCS17, you should take a look at the Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts (APE). We're a bunch of UND students that meet on a.net and like to take trips to places outside of North Dakota.

Hey Tim, I'll be at the March 3rd meeting. I'm always a big fan of trips outside North Dakota.

Ejmmsu, not to split hairs, but it was just announced that Tupelo would be recieving ASA/DL Connection service from ATL.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

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