flyXJT
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Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:45 am

Today Midwest Airlines announced to their ramp employees that their jobs were being outsourcing as a means of cost reduction. The ramp will be handled by Skyway Airlines, which is, coincidentally owned by Midwest Air Group. The current ramp employees will have to start from square one with Skyway; from the interview to the paperwork, to the pay and seniority. Obviously this hasn't gone over well, and some of the YX ramp has started a slowdown (leaving off carts of bags, not scanning mail, etc) and they are also harassing current Skyway employees. This certainly isn't a good sign from an already struggling airline, especially on the heels of heightened speculation B6 will be coming in this summer.


pw
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:00 am

Patrick,

I was just about to post the news, but I didn't want to post it without an article. I was in the Midwest Ramp room when all of this went down today. I felt like I was at a funeral. One ramper was crying, and some were already saying their goodbyes. I think that this is the most bogus, cowardly, and bullshit move ever conceived in the cookie palace. Tim and the rest of the tards running YX should feel shame for what they have done to their employees. They are taking the most elegant airline in the country and getting rid of many of the people who make it what it is. Granted you may think "oh it's just the rampers" but rampers make an airline work, just like gate agents, and pilots. This is absolutely terrible what they are doing to the rampers. There is a reason why the Skyway rampers were not Midwest rampers, they weren't good enough. Now you'll have these $7.00/hr yahoos running the mainline ramp. I hope that Midwest is prepared for what is going to happen now that they have Jerry's Kids slinging their bags. Screw Tim , and every other person in the cookie palace that had anything to do with this. They just ruined the lives of a lot of employees, and alienated a large portion of the community.

edited for spelling

[Edited 2005-03-01 02:05:42]
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
flyXJT
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:09 am

I thought I saw you in one of the white trucks behind an -80 today. This is total BS. Its asinine to think an airline can run by making a bunch of major changes at the bottom without making any changes at the top. Tim needs to go before there’s any chance of YX surviving. Word has it the ticket counter and gate is next, and judging by the last two rumors that came true (this and before MX outsourcing) its only a matter of time before all they have are cookies. Don't even get me started on the Skyway ramp now...we just had two transfer bags come over from a flight that got in two and a half hours ago......its not that long of a drive from bagroom to bagroom. Its funny how most GMs at the airport concur that you hire off the street before you hire from Skyway.
 
Skyway1
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:33 am

Oh man....I feel for all the hard working YX men and women. All the folks there were professional and hard working when I worked at MKE. There IS a difference between Skyway and Midwest quality wise....so Midwest will have to reap what they sew. And I thought the upper management folks at C8 and ATA were completely hopeless. I'm so glad to be out of the aviation industry!

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:41 am

Yeah I was in a white truck today. It's absolutely deplorable what they have done. I have heard the rumor about contracting out the gate and ticket agents as well. Midwest needs to remember that you get what you pay for. When you pay $7.00/hr you're going to get $7.00 worth of work. I have said it in many threads that Tim needs to go. Midwest is growing closer with each passing day to a date with Chapter 7, they need some new blood in that place. They have now succeeded in alienating their employees, and the communities surrounding the airport where most of these people live. And I know exactly what you mean about the Skyway idiot getting you an interline bag. An hour after the flight leaves they will stroll over with a bag, and have that stupid inbred look on their face.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Skyway1
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:49 am

Man....if they farm out ticket counter and gate to Skyway they will be in a huge world of hurt. When I was with C8 we handled the Skyway flights down here in DAY. We used Nativesabre and Skyway used Fastair(Skyway had to rig our system so we could work their flights). We would periodically have to call a Skyway station or res to help us with comp vouchers as our Sabre commands would not accept them. I'm not kidding here...one Saturday it took almost 4 hours for somebody at Skyway to figure out how to take $25 dollars of a ticket with a comp voucher. My co-worker and I couldn't believe these people were so inept at processing the simplest of items.

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
flyXJT
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:08 am

My favorite is when I get rerouted bags for flights to MSP, DTW, MEM, ATL, CVG...the list goes on. You would think at least one person there would get the concept of codeshare flights (Then again, these are the same people we get counter-to-counter pass requests for all the aforementioned cities). The other day I was coming back from the fuel farm and I was waiting for one of the Dork jets to taxi out - while I was sitting there I noticed that the lav service door was sticking right out of the plane (for those of you who haven’t seen it its a good 5"x8", maybe bigger)...not only did the guy assigned to do the lavs and just that leave it open, but I watched as a ramper marshaled out the plane (never noticed it) and as the jet taxied down the row of parked planes while three, count 'em, three supervisors watched, as did countless other rampers. I ended up calling Skyway ops and telling them about the door and the aircraft did a quick pit-stop back at the gate about 10 minutes later. This just shows for a majority their lack of attention to anything.

I have a friend who works over there and he refuses to go full time because he usually ends up working most of the flights by himself because of the lack of motivation by anybody else. Airline workers in hubs are bad to begin with, but add a podunk company like that to the mix and you have trouble.



...Midwest is effectively running themselves out of business by doing what they are. I just feel sorry for the employees who feel they have no choice but to goto skyway...
 
jeb94
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:00 pm

FlyXJT, not to offend, but I saw plenty of that on YX birds, especially after PC air went into service, while I was working flightline maintenance at MKE. Now then, for a company that claims to have so much pride in all the hard work that its mechanics and rampers, they sure are stabbing their employees in the back. Is saving a few bucks really worth all of the problems with C-checks and mishandled bags they'll be getting? I'm glad I left when I did before I ended up on the street. If the company pats your work group on the back, expect to have your work group eliminated or reduced within 6 months. Thank you Tim Hucksterma.
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:25 pm

Well this is still a bogus move by the YX management. I dare Tim and the boys to walk down into the ramp room and talk with the people that they screwed over. Maybe Tim would change his mind after the kicked his ass. He needs one!
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
vivavegas
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:32 pm

As sucks as it does, this is a smart business move for YX (start your flames now). YX will be cutting $3-$5/hr in wages while maintaining control over the operations (through a subsidiary) and really not affecting customers (customers won't know or care if the ramp rat is making $7 or $10/hr).

When I check-in at outstations I cannot tell the difference between a YX employee and a contract worker. So I could very well see YX moving to outsourcing C/S staff too.

YX must look at every option to cut costs, if it was my choice to pay bag smashers $10/hr or keep the same frequency of YX service in MKE, trust me, I like having nearly 50 non-stop destinations in MKE.

The days of career-long family supporting jobs in the airline industry are gone, not coming back. The quicker employees re-tool and adjust the better off life will be for them. Sorry for the dose of reality.

Let the flames begin.

Craig
MKE
Realist
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:37 pm

So instead of asking for pay cuts, Midwest has found a way to screw their employees out of a job? Well isn't that special...
 
vivavegas
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:41 pm

Let me know how many of you would go back to making $7.00/hr if they asked you.

Craig
MKE
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:01 am

The Midwest ramp operation will go down the tubes over the next few months. I have a theory regarding all of this. I believe that YX is outsourcing all of it's non flying employees in order to make it more attractive to a potential buyer. Think about it. If all the employees are contracted out, then you donate have a seniority list to merge. Just a though that I came up with this morning.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
aa757first
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:08 am

How much is Midwest paying ramp agents now? I know US Airways started hiring rampers in Philadelphia (probably more expensive than Milwaukee) for $7.00 and had a pretty good pool of applicants.

AAndrew
 
swaluvfa
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:37 am

Does anyone think a merger between AirTran and Midwest would ever happen? AirTran needs planes, Midwest has 717s. AirTran wants somewhat of a midwest hub operation, Midwest has MKE. When I looked at a map of the USA, I was suprised to see how close MKE really is to Chicago! Maybe AirTran could get a second chance in that area?! Who knows? Any thoughts?
 
swaluvfa
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:39 am

Sorry I just realized my post has nothing to do with the topic of this post! oops!  Smile
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting SWALUVFA (reply 15):

Does anyone think a merger between AirTran and Midwest would ever happen? AirTran needs planes, Midwest has 717s. AirTran wants somewhat of a midwest hub operation, Midwest has MKE. When I looked at a map of the USA, I was surprised to see how close MKE really is to Chicago! Maybe AirTran could get a second chance in that area?! Who knows? Any thoughts?

When we first opened MKE it was because the management at FL believed that YX was going to go under. The rumors have been flying around FL and YX for years about a merger. The outsourcing of the YX rampers make me believe that the merger, or a buyout is possible. I dont think that FL wants to mess with YX until they hit Chapter 11. MKE would make a good hub, but we'll see what happens. I'm just paid to get the flights out ontime, not run the show.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FutureFO
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:06 am

Just to let you know passengers don't care whether they are being handled by YX or AL. All they see is the YX brand. So lets not jump the gun on passenger impressions so quickly. I enjoy working for AL and think that we try to serve YX with the things the passengers expect. We still provide the best care in the air, regardless of the subsidiary named. Believe it or not we are owned by Midwest Express Holdings.


Sean from MCO and MKE
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
quickmover
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:18 am

"I dont think that FL wants to mess with YX until they hit Chapter 11. "

As we saw with the ATA deal, Ch. 11 is no guarantee that you can purchase assets. If FL wants a sure thing, something needs to be worked out ahead of bankruptcy like a merger of some type. YX's market cap right now is less than 60 mil. and Boeing is the main creditor. I wonder where Boeing would go with 20+ 717s?

Any thoughts?
 
coiahtx
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:29 am

Things are going to get a little rocky for YX in the next coming months. I dont know how you people feel, but i've flown YX numerous times, and you can surely tell when your checking in with a skyway employee versus a midwest employee. The proffesionalism just isn't there. IF YOU PAY PEANUTS YOU GET MONKEYS!!
 
sunking737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:43 am

I feel sorry for all the Midwest Rampers, as a former Ramper it is hard to see the company go down hill because of bad management.

Can you think of any other USAir line, that has UNITED their employees, for the good of the employees?

Almost every airline is milking their employee groups for give backs. "Oh SO and SO has gotten their employees to give up money we should get ours to give up, we wouldn't want them to be better than us. Cut your managers pay. Start at the top lead by example.

I think that WN & FL are the only ones who are not taking back from the employees.

I thought if you take care of your employees they took care of your customers??
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
F9Animal
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:16 am

Wow, sorry to hear this. Seems like many airlines are looking into this option. Alaska Airlines is very close to replacing the AS rampers with a sub contract. Granted it will save a few dollars for the company, I see many issues with contracted employees. Here are a few examples of my opinion:

When I put on my uniform, I know who I am working for. My airline is who I am dedicated to. I am dedicated to getting my flight out on time, reading tags to ensure the correct destinations, putting safety as a priority, and thanking my customer for their business. (Yes, I stand in the jetway waiting for Gate Checked Luggage, so I chat with the passenger.)

A contracted employee puts on a Contract uniform, and goes to work to get a paycheck. They dont care about anything but the paycheck. They dont care if the flight is delayed, nor do they care about safety. Contracted companies dont usually give any benefits such as medical, dental, 401K, and even flight benefits.

Contracted employees are offered a job in most cases if they meet the following guidelines:

1. You can breathe
2. You can see.
3. You dont have a felony (Criminal misdemeanor is fine)
4. You shower.
5. I cant think of any other criteria, but I wanted to have 5!

I am not slamming anyone on these forums that works for a contract company in any way. I see what contracts employ, and I cannot believe some of the people they have working for them. Sometimes I see people working for contracts that look like they just got out of jail, and got offered a work release program job.

You get what you pay for, and I am saddened to see airlines doing this. Passengers do look out the window, and see what the rampers do. I think it is sad to see airlines reverting to these moves.

As an airline employee, I look at the aircraft as "my" aircraft. In the eyes of a contracted employee, they dont see it that way. It is a metal object, with engines and wings. They are not proud of the company they work for, as an Airline Employee has something to be proud of as they represent the Airline.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
malaysia
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:24 am

Makes me sad when I see hub ramp is being outsourced while you seem to see YX jets handled by higher paying ramp rats such as AA and NW at other stations
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
aa757first
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 21):
When I put on my uniform, I know who I am working for. My airline is who I am dedicated to.


That's great, but how many other airline employees think like that. Example, a Northwest Airlines flight attendant wrote in her book: "People say to me if I hate it so much I should quit. And do what? I mean, how I'm I going to pay the bills?"

USA 3000 contracts their ground staff in FLL and I saw no difference at all in the quality of the workers, safety related or service related.

AAndrew
 
sunking737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:36 am

F9Animal This is how an airline employee should be. I added you to my respected users list.

This is how I feel, when I am catering the First Class galley, I find myself thanking the pax as they come off the airplane when they look over at me. Our Pilots & Flight attendants also thank them for fly with us.

I saw some family members fly with us and I called them to thank them for keeping me employed.

Asig here in MSP hires in mass just to get body's. Some work harder to not work then work....
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
F9Animal
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:40 am

Another thing that rocks my mind.

When the CEO of a company announces something like this, they claim that it was a hard decision to make. They say the decision was difficult, and that it was even painful. They say they looked at every possible option, but that the only way the company was to survive was by doing such action.

Let me ask you this.

If you make $400,000 a year, full paid benefits, stock options, and tons of perks... Would you care? Do you really think the CEO tosses and turns in bed at night, wondering if their decision has put X amount of employees in the Unemployement line? Do you think the CEO even wondered how many of those X employees ended up homeless, or perhaps hungry? Do you think the CEO hands the homeless guy sleeping on the street a few bucks for a sandwich, or a cold beer? Do you think the CEO cares when they jump in their $80,000+ SUV, and calls home to ensure dinner is ready when they get home?

I think greed and $$$$ is finish time for a CEO. I would be happy to give up a buck or two to keep my job. Granted it would hurt beyond anything, I would consider myself a lucky person. I dont think the CEO of YX even looked at any options for the ramp staff. Correct me if I am wrong please! If the airline is seriously in that much trouble, why did they not explain the situation to the employees, and force a pay reduction? How much will it cost YX to hire new employees for Skyway, train them, and expect a smooth transition? NOT!!!!!!

CEO's see $$$$$ and Cents. They lose focus of those that work beneath them.

Wolf, Lorenzo, Lakefield...... Shall we put more names to the list?

There are a few CEO's that really care about those beneath them. Luckily I work for one. I sincerely feel for those that work for CEO's that could care less about you as a person.

Good luck to any airline employee that faces these situations. I wish you the best of life!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Aa757first (reply 23):
That's great, but how many other airline employees think like that. Example, a Northwest Airlines flight attendant wrote in her book: "People say to me if I hate it so much I should quit. And do what? I mean, how I'm I going to pay the bills?"


You have a very valid point. That is the problem with such large airlines too. When you are known as employee number 10877773, that is how you begin to feel. Sadly, most larger airlines forget number 10877773. They don't remember the time when you and employee number 10874492 loaded the plane by yourselves, and still got the plane out on time. Recogniton is huge, and rewards make you feel less like that huge number.

I am a firm believer that when a company loses focus of its employees, that it is destined to have more turnover. Burnout is easy, especially when you are just a number. When my boss comes to work with a pizza, and recognizes us individually, it makes me appreciate my job more. Little things like that keep my morale going.

When I see my CEO patting employees on the back, joining the rampers and loading planes.... It makes me honored. When a pilot is doing a walk around, and notices that I am loading the forward pit by myself, and starts placing bags on the belt to help,,,,,, it makes me feel like everyone is part of the team.

When you can have a team like that, then it makes your company more successful. A contracted employee seems to segregate itself from the actual airline.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:42 pm

Here's a link
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar05/306174.asp

"The move will save Midwest Air Group more than $1 million annually by eliminating overlapping services between Midwest and Skyway Airlines", said Carol Skornicka, Midwest Air senior vice president of corporate affairs.


That's all? Screwing over two hundred people to save a million bucks? YX would have lost that million anyway. They're poised to lose forty million this year, the only difference is that now they have less people to apologize to when they go under.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:49 am

I'm a bit surprised that no YX employees have chimed in on theis one. Where are you guys at?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Michael77750
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:07 am

Wow! I can bet Northwest is smiling at Midwest's problems. When NW jumped into Milwaukee with their expanded schedule not too long ago, they were smart to do so. I can see lots of disgruntled YX passengers having enough and jumping ship to NW in the next year.
 
Midwest717
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting COIAHTX (reply 19):
you can surely tell when your checking in with a skyway employee versus a midwest employee. The proffesionalism just isn't there


yeah no kidding, when you get to the ticket counter at MSN to check in, there's a note posted that says "I'm in the back, ring bell for service" or something like that.
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Midwest717 (reply 30):
yeah no kidding, when you get to the ticket counter at MSN to check in, there's a note posted that says "I'm in the back, ring bell for service" or something like that.



It's like the scene out of the Wizard of Oz when they arrive at the gate to the Emerald City. When you ring the bell some Skyway employee comes out and cries "Who rang that bell?"
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
airtran737
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RE: Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:17 am

Oh by the way I heard a rumor that they are bumping the starting pay for the rampers up to $7.70/hr. Man I bet they have to beat the applicants off with a stick. If I was a Midwest ramper I'd say "$7.70 an hour, gee golly Mr. Hoeksema. That there sure is a lot of money. Sign me up for unemployment."
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever